Sam Yuill - Seeking advice, New friends, Work, learning Bahasa

Hi Balibule,

Thank you for your message, and I'm glad I got your reply by email so I could respond right away while I was still online. No, I am not an employee or get commissions, I don't think they would do that (maybe I should ask, he he). I'm an expat living in Ubud, for the past several years, and I guess I just got fed up with so many, pardon the derogatory expression, bules, can't speak Indonesian here.

I have some friends who have been here 30 years and still can't hold a 5 minute conversation with an Indonesian. And I don't mean ordering their staff to clean the toilet better or iron the clothes, I mean a real human-to-human conversation. All my expat friends who live in Java speak Indonesian, why not my expat friends in Bali?

So to go to a bar or somewhere and listen to someone spout off about how much they know about Bali because they've lived here so long blah blah, and then turn and insult the Balinese or Indonesian for their cultural ways which are different from ours, because they can't understand it because they can't speak Indonesian, this really **** me off.

It's not right, nor fun, for me to go around berating bules who can't speak Indonesian. My approach is to join forums like this and encourage expats to learn Indonesian. It's important, learn it properly with a good school, and don't let a lousy teacher turn you off from learning. I have a bunch of friends who learned privately or at the other place in Ubud who tell me they've given up because their teacher, well to put it kindly, wasn't good. So they've given up learning and stick with their 50-100 word vocabulary.

Cinta Bahasa is a formal school, with classrooms, and certifications. They get training from the ministry of Education and they train their teachers. They're serious about teaching foreigners to speak Indonesian in as short a time as possible. They aren't fooling around with anyone's time or money. A lot of people are looking for the cheapest way to learn a new language, but I know that learning Indonesian properly is worth the investment. It was painful for me, I had to study hard, but it was worth it.

I'm from Ubud so I know Cinta Bahasa. If there are any other good schools, why aren't their students saying something? And if they're good, can these people speak Indonesian, or did they just happen to find the teacher pleasant enough to spend hours and hours with them?
 
balibule said:
Surya Dharma, it looks as if you have a hidden agenda here. Are you an employee of Cinta Bahasa or do you get referral commission? All your posts are publicity for Cinta Bahasa
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I would say almost definitly has something to with the school. . Im not saying thats a bad thing coming on here and promoting something your involved with but they should at least be honest about it . . . I just find it hard to believe they are coming on here and posting all these posts in the different threads just because they are fed up with so many bules that cant speak indonesian. .
 
I agree. :icon_lol: with balibule and Rangi. Too much effort has gone in searching and posting on all the Bahasa Indonesia threads.
 
What I was saying did not only promote one school, it promoted all of them. I wrote about the importance of foreigners learning to speak Indonesian. I didn't say that people should only learn at the school I learned at, but recommended that they should learn at a good school with good professional teachers. I had friends who learned at a good school in Yogyakarta, and so when people would ask for a recommendation, I would recommend that school.

Instead of posting about whether or not I'm promoting one school over another, why not focus on the actual issue of whether or not foreigners should learn to speak Indonesian. In Ubud, I estimate 75% of expat residents cannot speak Indonesian. They want everything to be cheap, but they are unable to negotiate. They complain about this and that, but they are unable to explain what is important to them to their neighbor. Anyone who thinks this isn't an important issue should read "Fixed Abode" in the Bali Advertiser or the Bali Update to hear different voices on the issue.

Bali Update, July 2012:

Foreign Workers in Bali Accused of Having No Concern for Island’s Culture

Bisnis Bali quotes a member of the Badung regency House of Representatives
(DPRD-Badung), as calling on the Manpower Department (Disnakersos) to soon
gather the foreigners who work in the regency and enter into a dialogue
addressing their commitment to the island of Bali.

“The Manpower Department should urgently hold a gathering with foreign
workers in order to discuss what they expect and what is expected of
them,” said I Wayan Puspa Negara on Tuesday, July 17, 2012. Puspa Negara,
a member of Commission C of DPRD Badung, accused foreign workers in Badung
of only being concerned only with earning a living with little thought for
the local culture.

He said that foreigners leading companies in the region act arrogantly ..."

But lesson learned, I won't take 10 minutes to post across threads anymore. :fatigue:
 
10 years ago this was discussed in Jakarta (government)..."foreigners living in Indonesia should be able to communicate using bahasa Indonesia"
if I remember right the outcome was somewhat to this extend "if Indonesian people can't speak their own language, why should we demand this from foreigners"

#imho, it should be normal to speak the language of the country one resides in.
 
Surya Dharma said:
Hi Balibule,

I'm from Ubud so I know Cinta Bahasa. If there are any other good schools, why aren't their students saying something? And if they're good, can these people speak Indonesian, or did they just happen to find the teacher pleasant enough to spend hours and hours with them?
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There is the library in Ubud. Their Bahasa Indonesia classes are well known. There is also Learning indonesian. Their phone number is 0819 9908 0044 and they are excellent. There are also others.

You have posted 20 times and each post is about the same school. I agree with Balibule. It sounds very much like a personal agenda. Even when I attend a school I don't have as much detailed information as you keep putting on this forum about that one place.
 
I have some friends who have been here 30 years and still can't hold a 5 minute conversation with an Indonesian. And I don't mean ordering their staff to clean the toilet better or iron the clothes, I mean a real human-to-human conversation. All my expat friends who live in Java speak Indonesian, why not my expat friends in Bali?
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I fully agree.
Years ago i was a student at IALF and I can only say they are very professinal and after the first level course you can speak with everybody.It is a school with a very good curriculum,university trained teachers,labs,computer rooms and a very nice library.
I also attended lessons at the pondok Pekak library in Ubud,which was different as only two times a week and more informal,but also helped me.
The only problem with IALF is that after level 4 there are almost never people who want to learn more,so to get to a higher level you have to find another way.
One thing i have to remark:i live in a village where hardly anyone speaks english,which in principle should be good for your bahasa indonesia,but it quickly became clear many people in Bali do speak rudimentary bahasa indonesia,or mixed with balinese or bahasa gaul,youth language mixed with sms language.
And to answer your question,yes,i can speak bahasa indonesian.
 
interesting to see people who want to learn bahasa,
i think if your purpose is for work, it is not actually good, because the citizen is still explore and dont comprehend yet
 
Kalau tinggal di negara saya, Anda harus belajar bahasa saya. Kalau saya tinggal di negara Anda, saya harus belajar bahasa Anda. Mengerti, tidak?
If you live in my country, you must learn my language. If I life in your country, I must learn your language. Can you understand what I wrote in Indonesian, or not?

Se sederhana itu ... it's a simple as that.

I promote the Cinta Bahasa school in Ubud, Canggu and Sanur, I know people who have learned to speak very quickly with them.
 
Just a quick comment to Rangi, about Berkley's message. Berkley's message was, to me, confusing, but it may be that Berkley's primary langauange is not English. I also think that Surya has a good point, but Bahasa Indonsia is usually an Indonesian's second language. In Bali, which is better to learn? Bahasa Indonesia atau Bahasa Bali? I welcome the views of others.
Barekarma
 
Nearly all Balinese speak bahasa Indonesia, so you should learn that first to a comfortably fluent level, then decide whether or not you need to learn bahasa Bali or another local language. If you ever get into trouble speaking Balinese, for example by unintentionally insulting someone by speaking common Balinese to some you should be speaking in high Balinese to, then you can always switch to bahasa Indonesia.
 
Hi Surya,
Thank you for the advice... and the warning about the difference in Balinese. I would not wish to offend anyone.
Barekarma
 
Sam that's fantastic news and let me be the first to congratulate you on your new language, life and love. Please stick around and share your successful experiences with others that are looking to imitate your happiness.

Might I ask what your business is and how you have fared with that and what sort of costs were necessary for the language courses?

Cheers Markit
 
Thanks for your update, Sam, and congratulations! It's great to see you making the effort to learn Bahasa Indonesia.

I'm the co-founder of Cinta Bahasa, I'm Canadian.

We collaborate with IALF and participate in events together, so there's no criticism coming from me. We are different, IALF is greatly subsidized, they are older, their published rates are much higher than us and they teach formal Bahasa Indonesia. You will hear few people using mem- and ber- verbs and passive speech in the vast majority of situations. We start by teaching the polite and commonly spoken Indonesian first, then progress to formal speech later.

This is why the Australian Consulate in Bali has chosen to send their consul staff to us, as well the German Embassy in Jakarta and other official clients as well as residents of Bali.

We're different, that's all, not better our worse, and it's up to you to decide where and what you want to learn.

What's important is that we as expats make the effort to learn and your comments to that effect are right on the mark.

We're just coming up to three years old, and we now have 12 teachers in four locations in Bali and about 600 students per year. We publish every testimonial we have ever received on our website at Cinta Bahasa Indonesian Language School - Ubud, Sanur, Kuta, Canggu, Lovina - Bali,.
 
I'm very envious of those that can speak local languages. I tried and was an absolute failure. I cannot remember anything but a few words and, if I don't use them often, they go astray.

I took French and Latin at school but "Ouvrer la fenetre' and 'Amo, Amas, Amant" is about all I can still recall!!!
I lived in Penang/Singapore for 6 years in the early '60s and probably got by with a little pillow-talk bahasa Melayu....and knew about 5 words in Hokkien.
I lived in Hong Kong for 16 years and could barely tell a taxi-driver in Cantonese, even when I was drunk, the directions to get me home...so I used to tip a parking-valet guy to take me home in my own car and he return by taxi.
I've recently lived in Vancouver since 1990 and haven't yet got to say.... Eh!

Now, I've been in Indonesia for 7 years off and on, and now live permanently....so I did the IALF beginner's course in Jakarta. I only got 50% at the final exam and that was a generous mark, according to Guru Tetty. I suggested that I should get 50% return of my fee....she slammed the door on her way out but I heard the word "Bodoh!"
I yelled "I know what that word means you know!"
"Sure" she responded "It's all the others I taught that you've forgotten you dingbat". She's Batak....and my wife's friend....so I forgive.
It's odd IALF emailed and asked if I wanted to continue with the next phase.....advanced!:excitement:

When I'm with my Indonesian in-laws, who all speak English and Dutch, they methodically keep me in the conversation by interpreting to me. Even my driver, who didn't speak English before, suggested to my wife that as his English is now better than my Indonesian it's best I just speak English slowly......I'm NOT flattered:grief:

I'm not a dummy in other things...indeed, many come to me for advice on home diy technical stuff and aviation technical/electrical and marine engines/systems...anything mechanical or electrical excluding computer science.... I have UK qualifications in those and a pilot's licence....although most, like my UK driver's licence, now expired due to age.
I'm also Canadian qualified in Real Estate law/mortgage/business and have a Pleasure Boat Captain's Certificate in Navigation and Yacht Theory.

So, is it possible anyone can just have a mental block when it comes to languages....or is Guru Tetty right?
 
Anyone at any age can learn to speak bahasa Indonesia / Indonesian language.

So, is it possible anyone can just have a mental block when it comes to languages....or is Guru Tetty right?
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I was hoping someone else would be the first to answer, but I didn't want to let your comment go unanswered.

I'm sorry to hear about your experience at IALF Jakarta, and I'm sure it is only the bad attitude of Guru Tetty and not the opinion of the school.

However, I do hear this often, and this is why we designed Cinta Bahasa to be different, very very very different than most schools. Even our teachers tell us they are surprised by how relaxing and encouraging, while still being professional and effective, we are.

As teachers they tell us their bad experiences teaching at schools that force them to teach them in ways that are not natural, to teach them to speak a language they cannot use on the street, to force them to only teach a particular curriculum which is far behind the times or just plain incorrect, and to punish students who aren't learning up to their par, when the only par for success is within each student. Other teachers, on the other hand, become hard and mean, and this is around the time they should take a long holiday or switch jobs.

Guru Tetty is also wrong that someone can be incapable of learning a new language. This is her own blindness and proof of her inexperience or incapability as a teacher. Every teacher must have the belief that anyone, at any age, can learn a new language.

Some learners are more resistant to learning a new language than others, but alongside the language teaching, there must also be some help to change the blocks that the learner may have that subconsciously tries to sabotage their learning...not only with language but we often see resistance to learning new things in general.

We see this appear when students try to translate everything they are learning into their native language, as though the new language were simply a matter of using different words to say the same things in the same way...that you can literally translate a sentence from English to Indonesian and the Indonesian listener will understand it. Of course, this is absolutely not the case.

So a good school and a good teacher will help you feel comfortable making mistakes as you find your way into the language, because by misunderstanding and being misunderstood you will learn how to understand and be understood. Fluent speakers don't necessarily speak perfectly, but they can make themselves be understood. Learning Indonesian is great this way, it is such a fluid and flexible language.

Don't give up learning Indonesian, just find the right place to learn it.
 
Well I will be learning Indonesian the Cinta Bahasa way in March .The classes will be taken place in Lovely Sanur ( close to McD's on the by pass)


@ Davita no I am not a salesmen or an affiliate for them lol
 
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