Developing in the Sebali area of Ubud

P

Philip108

New Member
My wife & i just viewed a piece of land at Sebali, near Ubud.

Does anyone has any reviews or feedback to share, with regards to developing/building in this banjar?

We find the land surroundings very beautiful and would like to find out more before we commit to it.

Hopefully there are some forum members here who have had some experience in the Sebali area.
Will be great to hear from you.

Thanks.
 
Hi philip108,
before committing to anything, (be it Sebali or any other area) it might be a good idea to swing by the kantor kepala desa and have a word with the kepala desa..
ask him whatever comes to mind..you'd have to wait though till the 23th since all offices are closed till that date.
 
Thanks Gilbert, but is it common for foreigners to visit the kepala Desa? Sure, i should give it a try.
But from my stay in Bali so far, i get this feeling that he's gonna say 'bisa' to every question, without giving much thought to it.
And he or the banjar might change their minds about the rules for bules later, when the 'fish is in the hook'.

Anyway, apart from asking for the banjar fees of say 25,000 rp per month, what sort of problems/demands do Banjars make on foreigners?
Anyone in Ubud has any experience like these to share?
 
Meeting the kepala desa is a MUST, even if you think he would answer all of your questions vaguely or even not at all. It's a matter of courtesy and respect, in doing any kind business in any Balinese village.
 
I have no idea if it is common or not, but it should be for many reasons(tintin mentioned 2). Remember you only get 1 chance to make a first impression.
I can only tell you what I have done in the past (personal experience). so in your case, imho you've got two visits to make..first the klian dusun (head of banjar) and then to his boss the kepala desa.
you're right, maybe he will answer alot of the questions with "bisa" and "iya"..while in fact it's the opposite, it takes time and some kind of 6th sense to know when a 'bisa or iya' is actually a no (Balinese don't like to say no or tidak bisa).
Since you don't have the time (6ht sense maybe you've got that) I would stick to questions wich can not be answered by yes or no...asking things that way also helps the proces of communication.

problems/demands...for example : whilest I was building the house I life in, alot of big/heavy trucks bringing stuff ruined the road going uphere...he (kepala desa) didn't demand it, but asked if I could help (give money) to fix the road when I was done with the building..I told him not to worry and he wouldn't even need to call the troops (kotong rojong) to fix the road, but I would take care of it. So no money exchanged hands, but I had the contractor fix the road. Everybody happy. point to the story, a lot will depend on yourself..if and how the community accepts you.
 
Hi Gilbert & Tintin, Thanks for the great advice.

I'll definitely go visit and consult with the banjar head and kepala desa.
Thanks.
 
In my opinion meeting with the Kepala Desa is just an invitation for him to collect a commission behind your back on the sale of your land.
 
hahahaha...
just out of curiousity, how would he go about to getting a commision from the person who sold the land??
doesn't make sense imho...

even if (don't know how or why) he would try and get some kind of commision from whoever sold the land, that action has no influence on your future-relation with the kepala desa and also the whole community around you.
 
and??

he (kepala desa) can't stop someone to sell his land?
so what kind of leverage would he hold over the one who wants to sell land?
 
I don't remember writing that the Kepala Desa can stop someone from selling his land.

I agree that it is good to go and meet the kepala desa but cannot see why you need to do this before you have even bought the land. What are the advantages of meeting the Kepala Desa before buying?

In general, as soon as a Balinese knows you are about to buy land they will try to mix and take a share of the commission.

It would be interesting to know if a price has already been negotiated and agreed on. If not yet, I would personally advise the buyer to only involve as little Balinese as possible.
 
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advantages : just two examples of the top of my mind : 1,he could let you know that foreigners are not welcomed in the area
2, he could let you know that the land in question has issues (be it tax, inheritance etcetc,..)

if not stopping someone from sellings land, what's the leverage to get commision?
most kepala desa, have this job on the side...in other words they have a double income.
 
Hi Gilbert, I'm just giving my personal opinion to the question. I'm not going to get dragged into an endless discussion on who's right and who's wrong. You have Sakumabali for that :icon_e_biggrin:
 
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balibule said:
Hi Gilbert, I'm just giving my personal opinion to the question. I'm not going to get dragged into an endless discussion on who's right and who's wrong. You have Sakumabali for that :icon_e_biggrin:
Click to expand...
hahaha, yeah.

ehm, did I say you were wrong or right for that matter?
I was genuinely curious as to how a kepala desa would go about getting a cut from a seller?
I am sure you can think of at least one scenario, or was it just about throwing your opinion out there, and not something from personal experience?
 
I second the part about talking with the kepala desa, it is very important. Just get the price of the land first from the owner. Then if the kepala desa does try to take a commission it will come from the seller's pocket and not yours.

It is a sign of respect and will smooth over all future problems. If for example you don't get along with the kepala desa when you meet him before buying the land, you will know not to buy there as your life can be quite miserable if the head guy in your village doesn't like you.

If you buy first, meet later then you take a chance on that. I would personally never buy a piece a land or rent land or property for a term longer than 1 year without sitting down and chatting with the kepala desa.
 
Hi All,

In our experience, this is a tricky topic, as much depends on the Kepala Desa himself.

- Is it necessary to visit the Kepala Desa prior to purchasing a piece of land? No.

- Is it common practice? No.

- Will it yield any benefits? Debatable.

- Does it have the potential to cause future headaches? Yes, it has the potential to do so, but it won't always.


A client of ours was very proactive upon the purchase of their land in consulting the Kepala Desa - this was in one of the Bukit villages. The Kepala Desa and his subordinate Kelian Banjar became very aggressive, or "helpful" (as they phrased it) in submitting requests / demands from our client. They tried to become involved in every aspect of our clients project, but always pitched such in a "saya bisa bantu" manner - in every case for non-issues not requiring their "assistance". Our clients felt very pressured, understandably - the requests were unreasonable, continual and costly. As the project neared completion, both the Kepala Desa and the Kelian Banjar asked that they be accepted as "tenaga kerja" at the project - in other words, salaried staff - with no duties. It was at that point a third party - our internal 'biro jasa' was asked to take over the relationship from our clients. The demands and solicitation of "assistance" has now ceased.

Would the above happen in every situation, to every individual? No, but it can happen.

Indonesian buyers of land in Bali, be they Balinese or non-Balinese Indonesians, would generally only engage these various individuals as needed, or wait until such a time that they are "engaged" by these individuals - one of which is inevitable. They do so with a cultural understanding of what pre-emptive engagement may expose them to.

No one can truly advise you whether it's a wise decision or not.


All the best..

Populaire
 
Populaire said:
Hi All,

In our experience, this is a tricky topic, as much depends on the Kepala Desa himself.

- Is it necessary to visit the Kepala Desa prior to purchasing a piece of land? No.

- Is it common practice? No.

- Will it yield any benefits? Debatable.

- Does it have the potential to cause future headaches? Yes, it has the potential to do so, but it won't always.


A client of ours was very proactive upon the purchase of their land in consulting the Kepala Desa - this was in one of the Bukit villages. The Kepala Desa and his subordinate Kelian Banjar became very aggressive, or "helpful" (as they phrased it) in submitting requests / demands from our client. They tried to become involved in every aspect of our clients project, but always pitched such in a "saya bisa bantu" manner - in every case for non-issues not requiring their "assistance". Our clients felt very pressured, understandably - the requests were unreasonable, continual and costly. As the project neared completion, both the Kepala Desa and the Kelian Banjar asked that they be accepted as "tenaga kerja" at the project - in other words, salaried staff - with no duties. It was at that point a third party - our internal 'biro jasa' was asked to take over the relationship from our clients. The demands and solicitation of "assistance" has now ceased.

Would the above happen in every situation, to every individual? No, but it can happen.

Indonesian buyers of land in Bali, be they Balinese or non-Balinese Indonesians, would generally only engage these various individuals as needed, or wait until such a time that they are "engaged" by these individuals - one of which is inevitable. They do so with a cultural understanding of what pre-emptive engagement may expose them to.

No one can truly advise you whether it's a wise decision or not.


All the best..

Populaire
Click to expand...

By "engage these various individuals" I'm assuming you mean talk to them, not bribe them for help. If that is what you mean, my experience is the opposite. Indonesians by nature involve many people in their decisions and that includes talking to the kepala desa before buying land or homes. The Indonesians I know would not buy land in a village where they don't know the kepala desa!

One of the reasons we talk to the kepala desa before moving forward with a land purchase is just because of situations you describe in your post. If they were aggressive in their requests to help we'd go elsewhere to buy. There are many areas where we wouldn't buy because our nominee has told us the village doesn't want and is unfriendly to bules.

In your post you are clearly describing adversarial us-vs-them situations and that is just what we would always want to avoid. Our goal is to become friends, to integrate into a village which precludes some of the problems you describe. It is also invaluable to have an Indonesian, hopefully a friend, go into the meetings with you or to talk for you to smooth the way, to create relationships and to bring about understanding.

It also helps me to remember that, as a bule, I am a guest in this country. The land is not mine. And an attitude of superiority, even when subtle, probably isn't going to result in the best situation.
 
Hi Pollyanna,

Yes, by engage we mean introduce oneself to the Kepala Desa, discuss their plans with the Kepala Desa, etc. Very few Indonesians do this when they purchase land in Bali, in Java - anywhere for that matter; very few even do this when they start their build - they tend not to wear rose-tinted glasses to the same extent as foreigners do.

"One of the reasons we talk to the kepala desa before moving forward with a land purchase is just because of situations you describe in your post. If they were aggressive in their requests to help we'd go elsewhere.." - this assumes the aggressive demands are outlined in an initial meeting or before the land purchase occurs and realistically, this doesn't happen.

As a previous poster indicated, it's not a topic worth arguing over - we're just passing along some observations and experiences so that the OP may make a sound decision.

All the best..

Populaire
 
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