If it was in the Australian then it must be true.
I think they have return flights & accommodation to Fiji on the same page.
I think they have return flights & accommodation to Fiji on the same page.
and does The Australian imply there are no muggings or robberies in Fiji? Bali is unsafe, fly to Fiji for a safe holiday. (of course newspapers never lie) Ask Rupert Murdoch.
Where or who are buying all these stolen electronics - are they being stolen to order???? Is this where the crime syndicate/mafia come in? A Balinese seen with some of this expensive equipment would be rather obvious in his village. Last year I believe it was cameras being stolen - mine disappeared while I was in the supermarket. I live in a family compound so feel quite secure - I think I will be staying here
Maffia or not,one thing is for sure.In my neighbourhood there are many buildingprojects,where javanese work under appalling circumstances(terpal tents in the rainy season) and for less than any balinese would take.Towards the end of their stay,there are always things that vanish from various compounds.They probably have not made enough money to bring home nice oleh oleh.Somehow i find it difficult to blame them.They come with high expectations,but usually reality is harsher then their dreams.
I think you are being to generous towards your Javanese builders. I live on an 'estate' and whilst it was being built nothing was safe. There were burgularys every night. After the builders left there hasn't been one single break in for 2 years. One builder I asked from the team working in the area [with permission from his boss] to build me a small wall wanted me to pay a dayly rate for 6 people. Every day I went to look there was never more than 2 on site. needlesss to say I sacked him and in return he poured cement in all my pipe work. Sadly there is building going on in the area close to us so everybody is terrified of it starting again. Not enjoying your job or conditions is not an excuse to steal from everybody in the area. Needless to say I hav'nt got a good thing to say or feel about Javanese builders.
Surely there must be some balinese builders and contractors? Do the balinese also employ javanese builders to build their houses or places of business? When I was in bali last month a friend from the buleleng area said tukang bangunan in his kampung were between Rp.70.000 and 80.000 a day, and that included their food. Does this price make sense? the same tukang would cost up to twice as much in jakarta.
There have been building works going on for the last five months in the compound where I live - the builder is Balinese as are all the workers - no idea what they are paid.......nothing stolen/ missing here. Last year the large compound behind was doing some major building using Javanese workers - much trouble with rubbish being thrown from the roof into our garden and at one time a large chunk of concrete was thrown down just missing my friend. Those works have finished and no more garbage has been thrown down. I don't think they like us very much
Its not an excuse at all Mat, you are right, but you can see why people, who have no obligation to those around them, might do this. Does sound a little ominous that you have more trouble around the corner though, with the new work going on close by.
Joji, you're correct Balinese tukang bangunan charge around Rp70,000 or Rp80,000 per day, but workers from Jawa charge around Rp50,000 to Rp60,000 per day and sometimes less, depending on how much they need the work. That's why most people use orang Jawa.
I don't think this is the only reason, don't mind to pay a guy 100.000 Rupiah / day if he really WORKS! My personal (!) experience is that it makes no financial sense to build with balinese male workers...they want more money but relaxing most of the day, lunchbreak 2 hours instead of one, start to late, stop to early...
and in case it's raining they might not come back cause "Bos ada hujan?!" You can't fire them so easily cause they're balinese; so you have to stop each time the project because "uang habis" but must thank them for "their great work" aduh! It's too complicate....
P.S. don't forget all these ceremonies! Plus the days before / after they not really work too but want to be fully paid of course PLUS donation for ceremony
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WOW. Are you sure Matsaleh? So low? Does it include food allowance?
I hate to think about the quality of the work. A kenek (builders helper) in jakarta makes more. (Are balinese women still employed as keneks on building projects in bali). The old adage, "what you pay is what you get" must really apply here.
Seems like a good business opportunity for an honest building repair company there. Repairs on the "completed buildings" start the day after the owners move in.
I hate to think about the quality of the work. A kenek (builders helper) in jakarta makes more. (Are balinese women still employed as keneks on building projects in bali). The old adage, "what you pay is what you get" must really apply here.
Seems like a good business opportunity for an honest building repair company there. Repairs on the "completed buildings" start the day after the owners move in.
Mat you are correct I have more then 10,000 java building workers around me, Every time I get a mango on the tree, they steel it. My next build I will get some Balinese builders in...............no that won't work there toooo busy ripping tourist off.
I have employed builders here for the last 3 years. Some Balinese, some Javanese and all were good workers and cheerful with it.
The Balinese I pay/id on a daily basis: for workers IDR 50K and for Tukang/journeymen IDR 70k a day.
The Javanese were employed as a team under contract to do the finishing work as they are renown throughout the island as the best at that job - details were exact and finish excellent. I paid them on a per meter basis - good to know your own meterage otherwise they will tell you and you don't want to be in that position.
They have all given fantastic value for money and I would employ all of them again.
The Balinese I employed were %50 from the local area and %50 from a neighboring village - this precluded them all being gone for the same ceremony excepting the big ones like Galungan, etc. Many of these workers I like to think of as still my friends as they come along with new kids and wives when they get them and say hi and introduce them (I prefer to believe in friendship).
Also I hired my staff from those that did the best work and they are still with me. I actually have to tell them to go home almost every night - they come promptly at 8 break for lunch at 12, make coffee for all the others on site at the time around 1:05. They all start back at 1:15 and give a long good days work filled with conversation and laughing until sometime after 5 when they all ask me if they can go home - no matter how often I tell them not to. Usually my oldest member of staff Alit stays well until after 7 doing odds and sods and maybe drinking a small beer with me and talking over the days events and the next days plans. He also comes in on his day off to make sure all is well. His lovely wife Kadek also works for me as Pembantu making lovely Indonesian food, cleaning up, washing my clothes and making sure that all in the house is ship-shape. Made the gardener is busy all day repairing/renovating in the house, laying on a Organic garden, starting new plants, "borrowing" the odd flower/plant from the neighborhood, cutting, clipping, cleaning and making sure the ponds are clean, fish fed, pools are clean, etc, etc. etc.
My 3 house staff are on between 1 and 1.5 million a month with free rice and coffee and seem happy as can be. When I ask Kadek why she won't go home I get "home is boring, noisy (next to a major road, chickens, babi, huge family) and hard work".
So anyone that has a bad word to say about Balinese workers will only get one reply from me: It's your fault! If they don't do good work for you it's because you were not a good boss.
If you get cheated by Javanese workers: It's your fault! Know your build and stick with it and make sure they do the job you paid them for.
Saying "Uang Habis" to stop bad workers doing a bad job is your own fault, don't blame them.
The Balinese I pay/id on a daily basis: for workers IDR 50K and for Tukang/journeymen IDR 70k a day.
The Javanese were employed as a team under contract to do the finishing work as they are renown throughout the island as the best at that job - details were exact and finish excellent. I paid them on a per meter basis - good to know your own meterage otherwise they will tell you and you don't want to be in that position.
They have all given fantastic value for money and I would employ all of them again.
The Balinese I employed were %50 from the local area and %50 from a neighboring village - this precluded them all being gone for the same ceremony excepting the big ones like Galungan, etc. Many of these workers I like to think of as still my friends as they come along with new kids and wives when they get them and say hi and introduce them (I prefer to believe in friendship).
Also I hired my staff from those that did the best work and they are still with me. I actually have to tell them to go home almost every night - they come promptly at 8 break for lunch at 12, make coffee for all the others on site at the time around 1:05. They all start back at 1:15 and give a long good days work filled with conversation and laughing until sometime after 5 when they all ask me if they can go home - no matter how often I tell them not to. Usually my oldest member of staff Alit stays well until after 7 doing odds and sods and maybe drinking a small beer with me and talking over the days events and the next days plans. He also comes in on his day off to make sure all is well. His lovely wife Kadek also works for me as Pembantu making lovely Indonesian food, cleaning up, washing my clothes and making sure that all in the house is ship-shape. Made the gardener is busy all day repairing/renovating in the house, laying on a Organic garden, starting new plants, "borrowing" the odd flower/plant from the neighborhood, cutting, clipping, cleaning and making sure the ponds are clean, fish fed, pools are clean, etc, etc. etc.
My 3 house staff are on between 1 and 1.5 million a month with free rice and coffee and seem happy as can be. When I ask Kadek why she won't go home I get "home is boring, noisy (next to a major road, chickens, babi, huge family) and hard work".
So anyone that has a bad word to say about Balinese workers will only get one reply from me: It's your fault! If they don't do good work for you it's because you were not a good boss.
If you get cheated by Javanese workers: It's your fault! Know your build and stick with it and make sure they do the job you paid them for.
Saying "Uang Habis" to stop bad workers doing a bad job is your own fault, don't blame them.
Thank you Markit for putting these observations about building workers into perspective as I was becoming very depressed by some of the comments. I have been observing the Balinese workers here where i am living and have commented to others about the way they work - steady pace with an observable rhythm of someone who knows how to do physical labour. They always were here on time - 7.30 and left at 5.30 with the 'boss' doing the rounds after they left checking everything. Oh yes there are ceremonies but after all isn't that part of the reason we like living here. I personally enjoy the pace of living here but then I am not building houses
Sorry but I don't agree, wish I could explain it better, maybe you was lucky when you built your house but we (me & others) built many. Sometimes the leader of the village expect you hire his son / brother / whatever and on the first days you know already what a lazybone you hired there....you can't fire him either....
I for once had 15 balinese workers to build a boundary wall...I was on site every day with my balinese wife & mother in law, it's just that they can't / won't work faster. I don't like generalising and sometime balinese workers are great for finishing a project but I made better experience with javanese workers (again me! doesn't mean that everybody has to think so) but you can't come & say that it is always the fault of the boss if they ain't work right
P.S. even the big contractors from Bali use mostly workers from Lombok & Java, why do you think?
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Big mistake coming with Balinese wife and MnL! The workers would see them as Bos, not you. You then turn into the European Toyboy.
And your P.S. - Because they are cheap as has already been mentioned.
hhhhmmmm seems we should start a new thread..... Balinese vs javanese workers........ "And, Ladies and gentlemen.... in the blue corner we have Budi from bumi jawa... :boxing: and in the red corner we have kadek from kerobokan...... :boxing:
I have to disagree with this, at least in regards to the robberies in the south. The gang/lane that I live on in Kerobokan that had 5 robberies is off of a busy street, just down the street from Kerobokan Jail and the local banjar is infact almost directly across the street from our gang/lane! 3 of 5 homes that were robbed, were Balinese locals' homes within their family compound!!! Of course people's homes will be more secure if they are living in less isolated areas but i don't think people should have a false sense of security that everything is fine because the banjar is next door or because they have a few neighbors. No need to be paranoid, but be smart!