Ah I see you're now also a specialist in balinese hindu culture right? I don't know you but me for my side I can say that I lived for three years in a balinese village among balinese people without any foreigner...but you know better right? Jesus! Some people know everything better....
Ah I see you're now also a specialist in balinese hindu culture right? I don't know you but me for my side I can say that I lived for three years in a balinese village among balinese people without any foreigner...but you know better right? Jesus! Some people know everything better....
I am building with Javanese workers and my neighbour is building with Balinese workers. I have had no problems (so far). My neighbour, doing a similar size project, has had to change contractor three times, is paying about 20% more than I pay for a similar size house and his quality is horrible.
Going from the information provided on this thread i think it is too easy to fall into the generalization trap depending on our own experiences. There are too many variables involved to be able to make a definitive decision either way. But I think Markit has hit the nail on the head because it all comes down to THE BOSS. Personality plays a very important part in relationships, and in Asia relationships are the secret to success. (no need to thank me Markit, just send me some biltong)
Hi everyone, I'm newbie here and enjoying reading all the info in this forum
I think the topic has changed from the robbery to workers LOL
Regarding the robbery, I think the idea about having dogs were great, my recommendation would be a German shepperd, they are very gentle to their owners and at the same time very protective, a very good guard dog is always better than having a a lot of security guards.
I'm livin near Ubud and currently building an access road and I'm getting first hand experience on the issue of workers.
In my opinion all of them has their own advantages, and honesty doesnt come from their origins whether its local or Java or Lombok
Markit is right, how you deal with your workers really determined all the outcome, be firm but generous if they do what you asked them to, but never ever giving the impression that money is easy for you, anyone would take advantage over you if they think you are an open wallet
I think the topic has changed from the robbery to workers LOL
Regarding the robbery, I think the idea about having dogs were great, my recommendation would be a German shepperd, they are very gentle to their owners and at the same time very protective, a very good guard dog is always better than having a a lot of security guards.
I'm livin near Ubud and currently building an access road and I'm getting first hand experience on the issue of workers.
In my opinion all of them has their own advantages, and honesty doesnt come from their origins whether its local or Java or Lombok
Markit is right, how you deal with your workers really determined all the outcome, be firm but generous if they do what you asked them to, but never ever giving the impression that money is easy for you, anyone would take advantage over you if they think you are an open wallet
Thank you Ferdie and welcome to the forum if you haven't been already.
One question - you say you are building an access road? Why and to where? (is that two?)
Would love to know what your plans are and how the build is going.
One question - you say you are building an access road? Why and to where? (is that two?)
Would love to know what your plans are and how the build is going.
The access road was build because the piece of land was located in the rice field near Ubud, my aunt managed to buy them at a reasonable price and got the rights to use a road owned by the local subak with some compensation and a promise that we will build the road so everyone can benefit from that
The problem that comes up are typical, the broker told that the rights to build an access road was enough, but when the road construction started, someone came and said the starting point of the access road is his and he haven't been compensated if we are going to build a road there
After I heard about the problem, I went there and verified the facts and realized that the broker was lying and the man was right. I was never aware about the problem and I'm not the one who buys the land so it was a shock to me knowing that my relative was tricked by the brokers.
Immediately, I took over the whole negotiation with him and at first I was surprise to hear that he wants 500 juta for the right to use only a piece of his land for the access, he wouldn't sell the land because he assumed the next person who buys the land around us will also need to pay him some compensation.
He calls us as "investors" who would bring prosperity to the village and assumed we will give him money easily, he thinks everyone from Jakarta had a bulk of money to throw to him, LOL.
Being an Indonesian, I know a little about the local culture and managed to negotiate the number to 50 juta only after about 2 months of negotiations and and bluff him a little about the connections that we have with the authority.
I am lucky since he is desperate for money and by dragging the negotiation longer, he eventually gives up and settle for a reasonable price for that small part of his land, my advice to anyone who buys land with an access rights, YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY MEASURE THEM YOURSELF AND VERIFIED THEM.
The other problems are not so substantial, maybe I'll share them later on.
When I first came to Bali I was shown a wonderful, magnificent, once-in-a-lifetime piece of land. The only small fly in the ointment was that I would need to build a road to get to it - would not be a problem. All (about 4 or 5 as I remember) assured me that the property which only cost 17 juta per are, would be just perfect for my needs. Of course there was a lot of other property around "my" piece that would also benefit from a decent road.
After about 4 minutes consideration I said "I have come to Bali to build a house, not a road". I recommend that to everyone that wants to build in Bali. To this day that land is still available and if anyone feels the urge to build a road to it they will be remembered with respect and not a little humour in the village for their efforts.
Thank you ferdie for you kind explanation and it is a study in what can go wrong - especially considering the fact that you are Indonesian? What can the rest of us hope to do?
After about 4 minutes consideration I said "I have come to Bali to build a house, not a road". I recommend that to everyone that wants to build in Bali. To this day that land is still available and if anyone feels the urge to build a road to it they will be remembered with respect and not a little humour in the village for their efforts.
Thank you ferdie for you kind explanation and it is a study in what can go wrong - especially considering the fact that you are Indonesian? What can the rest of us hope to do?
Don't want to be a spoil sport, but will make a strong recommendation that you double check the location of your access road with the land department in Gianyar. The aspek must comply with the sales agreement in accordance with the Hak Milik from the seller.The access road was build because the piece of land was located in the rice field near Ubud, my aunt managed to buy them at a reasonable price and got the rights to use a road owned by the local subak with some compensation and a promise that we will build the road so everyone can benefit from that
The problem that comes up are typical, the broker told that the rights to build an access road was enough, but when the road construction started, someone came and said the starting point of the access road is his and he haven't been compensated if we are going to build a road there
After I heard about the problem, I went there and verified the facts and realized that the broker was lying and the man was right. I was never aware about the problem and I'm not the one who buys the land so it was a shock to me knowing that my relative was tricked by the brokers.
Immediately, I took over the whole negotiation with him and at first I was surprise to hear that he wants 500 juta for the right to use only a piece of his land for the access, he wouldn't sell the land because he assumed the next person who buys the land around us will also need to pay him some compensation.
He calls us as "investors" who would bring prosperity to the village and assumed we will give him money easily, he thinks everyone from Jakarta had a bulk of money to throw to him, LOL.
Being an Indonesian, I know a little about the local culture and managed to negotiate the number to 50 juta only after about 2 months of negotiations and and bluff him a little about the connections that we have with the authority.
I am lucky since he is desperate for money and by dragging the negotiation longer, he eventually gives up and settle for a reasonable price for that small part of his land, my advice to anyone who buys land with an access rights, YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY MEASURE THEM YOURSELF AND VERIFIED THEM.
The other problems are not so substantial, maybe I'll share them later on.
I am not trying to give you legal advice, but providing information that i learned the hard way, after having a sloppy job done by a notaris, now retired and unavailable.
My present situation exists with a piece of land with completed house near Ubud and NO access because the seller provided access across land he didn't own.
Good Luck!
Not meaning to sound suspicious, but, how did the materials used to build your house get in to the location if there was no access road available? If you bought the house already built it sounds like a set-up mugwump.
On second thoughts, unless the owner of the adjoining land was not a local and was not aware his land was being used as an access road.
@ joji: Access to land was probably one of the most discussed forum topics a while back... a couple of thoughts:
1. the landowner of the adjacent property may be perfectly aware that materials & workers are crossing his property, but prefers to keep his mouth shut till the house is built knowing he's got the newcomer by the cojones when it comes to negotiating the access price.
2. The owner of the property land & the owner of the access land are in cahoots (see point 1)
3. The owner of the property land & the owner of the access land are one person/family
Oh, and even if the land butts up against a dirt or asphalt road, don't assume that it is a 'public' road - it might have been built by the village (or an individual) & they'll come looking for 'rent'
alternatively, there's a knock on the door from some guy who aggressively claims to have built the road (or the road was built on his land) looking for 'rent' .... but didn't! and has been the subject of a dispute between his family for a generation or more & settled or not, your new visitor still harbours some grievance about being 'cheated' way back when & figures you now assume responsibility for redress.
(there are a few threads on that topic also)
Or.... a million other possibilities.
1. the landowner of the adjacent property may be perfectly aware that materials & workers are crossing his property, but prefers to keep his mouth shut till the house is built knowing he's got the newcomer by the cojones when it comes to negotiating the access price.
2. The owner of the property land & the owner of the access land are in cahoots (see point 1)
3. The owner of the property land & the owner of the access land are one person/family
Oh, and even if the land butts up against a dirt or asphalt road, don't assume that it is a 'public' road - it might have been built by the village (or an individual) & they'll come looking for 'rent'
alternatively, there's a knock on the door from some guy who aggressively claims to have built the road (or the road was built on his land) looking for 'rent' .... but didn't! and has been the subject of a dispute between his family for a generation or more & settled or not, your new visitor still harbours some grievance about being 'cheated' way back when & figures you now assume responsibility for redress.
(there are a few threads on that topic also)
Or.... a million other possibilities.
Last edited:
Thanks SHoggard. That explains Markit's comment below much better. Access MUST be included in the AKTA JUAL BELI, and notarized, with cast-iron clarity.
As I have been told before. In Bali it's a sin to steal, but not being completely truthful (as opposed to "lying") is smart business. :topsy_turvy:
As I have been told before. In Bali it's a sin to steal, but not being completely truthful (as opposed to "lying") is smart business. :topsy_turvy:
Markit, from a financial point of view, buying cheap land and then building your own road is so much better than buying a piece of land ready with an access road as long as you do the checking thoroughly and patiently
Of course it is based on an assumption that you have a firm idea of what you wanted an have a firm control over your contractor, of course everyone has their own preference
In my aunt case, she had trusted someone blindly and have the headache in the end, but she was lucky that the man step forward before the project is complete and I still think he is honest and sensible enough to deal with
Being Indonesian do have their own advantages but make no mistake, I can give you a lot of friends experience where a Balinese from other area got ripped off by the locals, LOL
The road that we build is legally own by the subak and we have made a written agreement with them to build an asphalt road in exchange for rights to used them.
There was a meeting with the local subak and the agreement was offered and the whole subak members signed them.
What was missing was the length of the subak didn't cover the path that we needed and we still have to pay someone for the acess, LOL
I can also add that beside the aspek check, you can check the land maps to the "kepala desa" where they had the whole map of all the lands and all the land also got updated there
Sad but true about the whole not disclosing the fact there
Another point of some interest when we are talking about access - it's not only physical access for people we are talking about here.
For instance: if you want to have power from PLN on your property you will most probably have to have some power lines run in. You will have to hang those power lines on some concrete poles that you will be able/forced to buy from PLN for (last I looked) 5 million each. You will have to plant those poles on somebody's land - guess what? You get to pay again, and again, and again. I have a standing contract with the Army (you don't want to argue with them, trust me!) which cost me 6 million at inception and is now 1 million a year for 4 poles on their land.
Ferdie wrote:
Markit, from a financial point of view, buying cheap land and then building your own road is so much better than buying a piece of land ready with an access road as long as you do the checking thoroughly and patiently
Of course it is based on an assumption that you have a firm idea of what you wanted an have a firm control over your contractor, of course everyone has their own preference
Ferdie I can't agree with that because of the reasons you yourself give - most people don't have a firm idea or control over their ideas or contractor. I think that the majority of people come here with a dream (intrinsically unstable) and a pocket full of hope. Most of us make it through with only some of that intact. To set out at the beginning with the added problems of road construction would, in my estimation, make it nigh on impossible for a foreigner to build his house here. No matter how ideal the land is.
Once you have cleared all the "people" problems there's still that one big one that nobody can control:
The weather!
Keep smiling and welcome to Bali.
For instance: if you want to have power from PLN on your property you will most probably have to have some power lines run in. You will have to hang those power lines on some concrete poles that you will be able/forced to buy from PLN for (last I looked) 5 million each. You will have to plant those poles on somebody's land - guess what? You get to pay again, and again, and again. I have a standing contract with the Army (you don't want to argue with them, trust me!) which cost me 6 million at inception and is now 1 million a year for 4 poles on their land.
Ferdie wrote:
Markit, from a financial point of view, buying cheap land and then building your own road is so much better than buying a piece of land ready with an access road as long as you do the checking thoroughly and patiently
Of course it is based on an assumption that you have a firm idea of what you wanted an have a firm control over your contractor, of course everyone has their own preference
Ferdie I can't agree with that because of the reasons you yourself give - most people don't have a firm idea or control over their ideas or contractor. I think that the majority of people come here with a dream (intrinsically unstable) and a pocket full of hope. Most of us make it through with only some of that intact. To set out at the beginning with the added problems of road construction would, in my estimation, make it nigh on impossible for a foreigner to build his house here. No matter how ideal the land is.
Once you have cleared all the "people" problems there's still that one big one that nobody can control:
The weather!
Keep smiling and welcome to Bali.
Last edited:
OOOOHHHH So you have been lying to us all along Markit!!!
An act of God? http://balipod.com/attachments/bali-expat-forum/1508d1365393778-robbed-kutuh-kajah-ubud-imgp7264.jpg
You are a false god!!!
Or you weren't listening?
:topsy_turvy:
An act of God? http://balipod.com/attachments/bali-expat-forum/1508d1365393778-robbed-kutuh-kajah-ubud-imgp7264.jpg
You are a false god!!!
Or you weren't listening?
:topsy_turvy:
Markit, good point on your statement, most of the friends that shared me their problems moving in to Bali had done the same mistake, they are still in awe with Bali and dreaming that they will get the same hospitality as a tourist from the locals.
That is one of the reason I stumble into this forum and decided to join, there's a lot of experience shared and suggestions given, such as do your due diligence and all the process needed before buying a property.
And the weather? I love it, because when you have been living in Jakarta with all the floods, traffic and pollution, Bali is a heaven.
In Ubud the sun is not that bad and I like to take my walk when it rains or eat my fried bananas with tea with the rice field in front of the terrace.
My sympathy to you for having to deal with the army though, the PLN is my next target and your info is much appreciated.
That is one of the reason I stumble into this forum and decided to join, there's a lot of experience shared and suggestions given, such as do your due diligence and all the process needed before buying a property.
And the weather? I love it, because when you have been living in Jakarta with all the floods, traffic and pollution, Bali is a heaven.
In Ubud the sun is not that bad and I like to take my walk when it rains or eat my fried bananas with tea with the rice field in front of the terrace.
My sympathy to you for having to deal with the army though, the PLN is my next target and your info is much appreciated.
G
Gurkha
Guest
I think what all of you are missing ( especially the 'Ubuddhists') is a good dose of situational awareness. As civilians you really need to get up to speed on this.
Be aware that most robberies are done before major holidays, i.e. Idul Fitri, Galungan, Christmas etc. and the perps believe that if they steal in order to conduct their organised superstition rituals ( a.k.a. Religious ceremonies) they will be forgiven by their imaginary friends that live in the sky.
Criminals only do what is easy - so make it difficult for them.
There is a local website that has a whole bunch of advice about personal security issues. Visit it. (Personal Security Guidelines)
Be aware that most robberies are done before major holidays, i.e. Idul Fitri, Galungan, Christmas etc. and the perps believe that if they steal in order to conduct their organised superstition rituals ( a.k.a. Religious ceremonies) they will be forgiven by their imaginary friends that live in the sky.
Criminals only do what is easy - so make it difficult for them.
There is a local website that has a whole bunch of advice about personal security issues. Visit it. (Personal Security Guidelines)
This web-site has information that is common on US web-sites (for example see Protect Your Home) and is in no way adapted to Bali. Advice for Bali would be aware that residences are usually within compounds, that padlocks are widespread, would comment on dogs, would comment on the Governor's advice that villa owners should hire security guards, would advise who to contact locally when there is a problem, etc. etc.
In fact, the advice is so poor, I would not be inclined to use their consulting services.