Pondok wisata thread #437

[Kristen]

So, here is the latest in the long line of pondok wisata threads... after 18 months of half heartedly trying to sort this out I am now getting serious. Our situation is that we have a 4 bdr lease in Sanur and are trying to regularise our affairs here to rent out our house when we are not here. I have been quoted around 68-70M plus Banjar donations to get a new pondok wisata IMB and the pondok wisata from a large agency. This is obviously a lot of money! It has also been suggested to me that if you set up a nominee company you just pay the tax and do not need an pondok wisata at all.

I have also heard so many different stories about tax that I no longer have any idea what to think. I have heard all of the following:
1 - If you have a pondok wisata the fees for that constitute your tax (estimated at the time the PW is issued) and there is nothing further to pay (wishful thinking?);
2 - If you have a pondok wisata you definitely have to pay tax because you are "on the record" and the tax rate is 10% if you have a kitas and 20% if not
3 - If you declare your income and pay tax in Australia you do not have to pay tax in Indo because of the double taxing treaty.

So, I guess my questions are -
1 - Does anyone have a good contact for Sanur to get this **** sorted? I have spoken to so many people of the last year who apparently could get it sorted out only never to hear from the again after initial contact or 2.
2 - Does anyone know whether the nominee company situation really means you don't have to bother with pondok wisata? For various reasons this may be a better option for our circumstances
3 - Does anyone know how the tax stuff plays out in Kota Denpasar? As far as I can work out there are different tax rules for different areas
4 - Does anyone know of any villa owners actually getting shut down for non compliance ?- at the moment this is all being made so difficult that I feel like just not bothering and dealing with any consequences if they arise.

Thank you anyone who managed to get to the end of this boring topic!!

 

[davita]

Kristen...with respect....you are all over the place with your questions.

1. If you own (nominee) or lease a place in Indonesia it should have an IMB. That means there is a permit to build in the first case.
2. A Pondok Wisata is a permit to operate a guesthouse.
3. The PW allows a business, minor, to be conducted. This still entails administration and corrupt opportunity.
4. To do it properly does, as you have observed, the use of legal interpretation and registration for NWPW tax. This typically is hard to find and follow.
5. To operate a Pondok Wisata guesthouse requires a modicum of business acumen. To rent your villa, when vacant, is probably more of a personal arrangement and doesn't require a business plan. Many foreigners like you simply rent their places without a Pondok Wisata but they are careful to advertising, as it can be assumed as illegal.
I do know 'pecalang' go around checking so...if you want my suggestion...ask the Banjar Klian how much you should donate to their Temple to be left alone. Consequently, don't use International Advertising Companies on the internet.

Bali is still NOT Indonesia.....when it comes to Banjar.

 

[Kristen]

Davita... with respect... IMB comes in two formats, residential or commercial and as I am sure you well know not all buildings on Bali have a valid IMB of any form! If you have a residential IMB and you want a pondok wiate you have to have it converted to a PW/commerical IMB.
About 80-90% of rental villas (at a guestimate) on the island are operated without the proper permits and most probably never have an issue, or at least no issue that cannot be dealt with with a fairly minor "donation", but the stories about the men in the brown suits turning up on your door step and shutting you down persist. I would love to know if this has ever actually happened to anyone.
We already make appropriate donations to our banjar and without using advertising agencies on the internet one really can't operate a villa rental, but thanks for your input.

 

[davita]

Ok Kristen...you seem more able to answer your own questions than I...so good luck.

 

[spicyayam]

It has also been suggested to me that if you set up a nominee company you just pay the tax and do not need an pondok wisata at all.

I don't believe this to be true.

If you have a pondok wisata the fees for that constitute your tax (estimated at the time the PW is issued) and there is nothing further to pay (wishful thinking?);

Not true. You will be expected to pay tax on your rental income.

Does anyone know whether the nominee company situation really means you don't have to bother with pondok wisata? For various reasons this may be a better option for our circumstances

A company and pondok wisata licence are two different things. Did you talk to the owner about this? I guess you would need their permission also.

 

[Markit]

Ok Kirsten, I haven't bothered to read Davita's offerings as he doesn't have a pondok wisata and has no fecking idea about it but that usually doesn't keep him from commenting long (very long) on anything so take it as given.

Someone I know very, very well has a PW here in Karangasem so I will detail his experiences:

You need a IMB (to my knowledge there is only the one, no different flavors)

You need a local that is the owner of "your" property to apply for the PW.

You will probably need new architectural drawings on submission

PW are (loosely) restricted to buildings under 300 mt sq. and with a maximum of 5 bedrooms to let

Upon registration "your" house will be visited by varying numbers of officials wanting to check it all out and needing bottles of water (to drink - my friend once thought it was for water testing and gave them all little plastic bottles of river/well water) at various different times by usually very short appointments - my friend got notification in the morning for afternoon visits. Not anything suspicious, they are just fecking Indonesian...

Once all the visits have been made and all the fees paid (this is a moving target and varies where ever you are on the island - I think I heard here around 40 mill and Kuta 120 milli) you will get some wonderful pieces of paper to hang on your wall. They will also talk to your owner about taxes which at the moment are %10 of the rental fee and due one month in arrears.

Depending upon how busy they are your applications could take up to a year or more. Up side is that while your application is pending you will be left alone to do as you wish.

Go and sin no more!

 

[Kristen]

Spicyayam and Markit, thank you for your very helpful replies!
Spicyayam, your understanding of the situation re company, pondok wisata and tax seems to be pretty much what I thought - the variations on this theme I think are mostly wishful thinking and/or people being told what they want to hear!
Markit, thanks so much for your info re costs etc. The quote of 65-70ish in Sanur to get the IMB fixed and PW done would seem about right. Looks like we will have to take the plunge, and with any luck it will take a while!

 

[spicyayam]

There are different IMBs depending on the business and yes you will need to change IMB from residential.

 

[davita]

Ok Kirsten, I haven't bothered to read Davita's offerings as he doesn't have a pondok wisata and has no fecking idea about it

I have no need for a Pondok Wisata.
The OP seemed confused in her first post and I just attempted to help prioritize. Her 2nd post was calmer and indicated she was familiar with due process. Most of your post is much more informative and helpful.

However...you confessed you didn't read my post but still concluded I've 'no fecking idea' etc. That is one huge ability you have...to read minds without actually knowing anything...or else it's a form of anointing someone by covering in crap so you appear wholesome.

I'll refrain from further comment on this subject.

 

[Markit]

Dave you are surely a lovely fella and I'm sure we will sit in the shade some time and look back with a sh*t-eating grin from ear to ear thinking about all those fecking idiots we led down the garden path with wrong-headed and stupid advise one fine day.

I'm just not that far yet.

I can't remember all the times when you wrote (and I paraphrase) "Got no fecking idea about what you are asking but ....." and then you proceed to write paragraphs of BS. Well you may be living forever but the rest of us, fortunately, have limited time left.

Go and sin no more.

 

[davita]

Go and sin no more.

Sorry my friend I just did...have you not read my post about moving to Liberland...just think...you could be the first Monarch.

You will be ordained as Czar Mark...Sovereign of all you can eat; Potentate to the volcano and Emperor of your bike...:tongue:

We await your first donation to the trust fund before we start the pronouncement address...:cupcake:

 

[ferdie]

I'll give you an easier way out.
Get the owner on board and give him a cut into the profit.
If you rent it out on a monthly basis with a very small client turn over, nobody will make a deal out of it.
It will look like your landlord is renting it to others while you're not there and just pay the banjar enough to make them happy
Unless you want it to be a real business and not a sublease when you're off the island.
It will safe you a lot of head ache and cash :icon_wink: