bakung

Member
May 4, 2011
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0
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Never in a million years....once they have your money it is a nightmare getting it back off them....

Joe i deal with them on a daily basis and i have for years and never had a problem ( touch wood ), but i have read that like your good self that a lot seem to have problems using it. Would you put the blame 100% at their feet or could certain banks be part of the problem not processing straight away ?.
Normally i receive a payment and transfer it from PayPal A/C to my UK bank and it is all done and shows up in the UK A/C before i log out PP 20 seconds later.
Don't get me wrong i am not promoting or work for PayPal but just interested how it works great for some and a n/mare for others.
 

Joe Writeson

Member
Jul 30, 2013
591
3
16
Indonesia
We were advised to use Paypal as a method for collecting payment for book sales, at no time during any of the registering process was there ever any mention that there was a requirement to 'validate' accounts by registering a debit or credit card with them.

An initial 'test' transfer was done and then the nightmare started, when we tried to transfer the money to my wife's BCA account we were informed that unless we registered a recognised card details that we would have to wait for 21 days 'clearance'.

When asked why this was not mentioned in their sales pitch we got all the smoke and mirrors guff about a system designed for 'your safety and security'.

We registered my wife's BCA Debit Card, rejected, we were then given some long winded garbage promoting BNI facilities.

We registered my wife's BNI Debit Card, rejected for no apparent reason.

We continued to get patronising emails offering 'understanding at your frustration'.

After 21 days lapsed I went to transfer the funds and the move was rejected because we had not verified the account with a valid credit card, I have an email that quite clearly states 'your funds are now available' when I went at them guns blazing their response was that 'yes' the funds were 'available' to make purchases on Ebay.

In the end I had to do a fake sale/payment to a friend with an active Ebay account and lost USD15 in 'fees' ...

I have over thirty emails that are all bluster and misinformation and the baseline is that Paypal had my money for 45 days gaining interest in their account.

Now then we jump to 'Urban Legends' 'The Paypal/Ebay Scam' people registering valid cards at Paypal and finding 'mystery invoices' paid by direct debit which apparently they agreed to when they signed up with Paypal...small print very very small print ...

I direct you now to paypalsucks.com and the horror stories there are incredible...

Bottom line, if you are willing to give them your credit card and banking details they will work with you, if not you are in for a a load of bollocks.

Hope this helps

J
 

spicyayam

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2009
3,594
342
83
Indonesia has stricter requirements than other countries. For the convenience I think it is still one of the best ways to send money over the internet for small payments.
 

Joe Writeson

Member
Jul 30, 2013
591
3
16
Indonesia
For the convenience I think it is still one of the best ways to send money over the internet for small payments.

....if you are willing to divulge personal credit/debit card details and sign a disclaimer stating that Paypal can access your card to resolve online Ebay disputes ... its all in the micro print
 

Joe Writeson

Member
Jul 30, 2013
591
3
16
Indonesia
We have went back to Western Union, sender pays, we pick up, no sweat, no fees, no hassle, no delays...only negative point being 'jam karet' business hours of some franchises.
 

calitobali

Member
Jul 10, 2008
478
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16
Paypal is pretty bad in some ways, but none of the points raised here are really relevant. Yes, for your own security, you need to verify your identity, using a credit card of some sort. This is even more strictly enforced in a country like Indonesia, where fraud is rampant.

Don't get hung up on the fact that you have to give them your credit card, it just needs to be on file to verify your identity, then you can transfer in and out of your bank accounts (even Indonesian ones) as you please.

Personally, I believe you are shooting yourself in the foot by going back to Western Union as your payment processor due to some hangup you have with using a credit card to verify your identity.

I'll put it this way: If I went to a site to buy a product (in your case, your book) and saw Paypal as an available option, I would click buy, pay within 15 seconds and be done with it. If I saw Western Union as the payment option, I would close the window and look elsewhere for the product. If, like in your case, the product was not available somewhere else, I simply wouldn't buy the product because I refuse to deal with Western Union unless absolutely necessary, and there are almost no online shopping situations where Western Union is absolutely necessary.

While I disagree entirely with all the points made above speaking negatively about Paypal, if you would like to discuss their other negatives features, such as their ability to freeze your account and seize your funds at their discretion without a reason (they are NOT a bank and not governed by the same laws) or their complete lack of fraud protection for sellers when selling non-physical goods, then I'm all ears and have some horror stories to share.

"Bottom line, if you are willing to give them your credit card and banking details they will work with you, if not you are in for a a load of bollocks.

Yes, this truly is the bottom line. They need to have your banking details so they can get the money into your bank, and they need another form of ID (such as a credit card or debit card) to verify that you in fact own the bank account in question, so they don't release your funds to a scammer. If you truly can't deal with this, then you are indeed stuck with Western Union which most of your customers will be reluctant to use.

As someone who sells something, it's your job to make the entire process as easy as possible on the buyer to reduce friction on their end.

This all sort of comes back to the Amazon problems you had in another thread. 99% of people are able to use Amazon and Paypal without issues, so it's a little hard to believe that these issues are "them out to get you" or anything like that. You just need to accept the fact that this is how these systems work, or accept the fact that you are unwilling to work with these systems (and all the consequences that come from not embracing them).
 

davita

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2012
4,441
146
63
As a retired airline employee I get discount airline tickets which I print-out myself. The only payment scheme offered is Paypal...and this is from a major International Airline.
Of course it is required to register with Paypal initially but I've been with them for years as an eBay trader...never had a problem except with email scammers trying to get my subscription info....I just delete!

edit: just remembered...my Paypal is not on an Indonesian account...it's in Canada...probably why no problems...sorry.
 
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Dick Rector

Member
Feb 26, 2011
153
0
16
Sanur Bali Indonesia
I have been using PayPal for a few years without any problem at all. BUT when I wanted an Indonesian account (with my bank here) it wasn't possible some years back. So my account is in The Netherlands. Don't know if Paypal is in Indonesia now.
 

Smoke

Active Member
Dec 3, 2011
1,395
1
36
Sanur
I used paypal extensively when i was working in the good ole USA. Since moving to Bali and selling my online bisiness's i only use paypal to move a little money from my usa paypal account to my indo paypal then to my indo banks.never had a problem yet. Use WU to move money and they closed my account for umm money laundring lol. Cant prove i purchased 2 cars lol
 

Joe Writeson

Member
Jul 30, 2013
591
3
16
Indonesia
The points have been made, opinions given and accepted with thanks.

I supplied a BCA Debit card - Paypal rejected.
I supplied a BNI Debit card - Paypal rejected.

It cost me USD15 to get a USD100 balance from them by the back door.

I'm sorry ... that makes it personal ... ME vs THEM

Again I will state, never in any of their opening promos and blurbs do they mention 21day delays in payment whilst an account is 'verified'.

I'm just tired of the whole thing...
 

Smoke

Active Member
Dec 3, 2011
1,395
1
36
Sanur
Kinda common sense in todays day and age to verify proof with all the identity theft and such going on.
My indo paypal was verified in a few minutes
 

Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
9,352
1,145
113
Karangasem, Bali
I'm not sure if I said this before but Paypal only work with credit cards - they SAY in their BS that they take debit cards but they were only kidding, as you found out - get someone you know (and that trusts YOU) to loan you their CREDIT CARD drawn on an Indonesian bank.

Get you PP account verified with THEIR credit card and then "Robert's your fathers brother!"
 

calitobali

Member
Jul 10, 2008
478
0
16
The issue may be with the type of debit cards you're using. The ones Indonesian banks generally issue are virtually worthless. The ones without raised numbers, and your name and credit card number just printed on. Sound familiar? Cirrus?

You really can't blame paypal for not accepting debit cards like that. Try purchasing something online (not in Indonesia or Southeast Asia) with one and you'll likely be met with the same results.

Markit has good advice to borrow someone's credit card for verification purposes only. Heck, give them 100k for their troubles. Or apply for a credit card in your wife's name, use it for verification and then cut it up.

I have personally within the past few months:

Attached a debit card (MasterCard) to my paypal account for verification
Linked an Indonesian credit card to (visa) to my paypal account
Linked an Indonesian bank account (BCA) to my paypal account

All were possible and very hassle free. I know it's frustrating, but the problem is more with your bank and the types of cards they issue than with Paypal. I have a lot of bones to pick with Paypal, but as someone who sells things online, I'm glad they go to these lengths to try and weed out the scammers.

PayPal is by far my favorite way to get paid besides a direct transfer to my bank account. How many times will you have to go down to the western union office to collect your $10 for a book being sold until that becomes troublesome?
 

spicyayam

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2009
3,594
342
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Other countries don't have this restriction, but they have limits to how much you can withdraw in a month without attaching a credit card. Indonesia has one of the reputations for fraud, which probably explains the added precaution for Paypal.

If you borrowed someone's credit card to get verified and then you made a purchase that exceeded your PP balance, wouldn't that person's credit card get charged? I am sure no one would do it intentionally, but if it was me I wouldn't be so willing to lend my card's details to someone.
 

Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
9,352
1,145
113
Karangasem, Bali
Other countries don't have this restriction, but they have limits to how much you can withdraw in a month without attaching a credit card. Indonesia has one of the reputations for fraud, which probably explains the added precaution for Paypal. Funny isn't it how selective we (us humans) are in our understanding - personally I think America has the worst reputation for fraud don't you? Remember the banking crisis? Ponzi? Bernie Maddock?

If you borrowed someone's credit card to get verified and then you made a purchase that exceeded your PP balance, wouldn't that person's credit card get charged? I am sure no one would do it intentionally, but if it was me I wouldn't be so willing to lend my card's details to someone.

The card isn't for purchases Spicy old mate that's what your PP balance is for - if you did buy something then yes your friend with the CC would probably no longer be... your friend.

You only use the credit card to give to Paypal - they then deposit a very, very small sum on that account and you (through the owner of the card's information) then have to tell PP how much that deposit was - card verified. They actually then loose all interest in your card - my friend's card ran out months ago and PP kept sending me dire warnings about that which I completely ignored. Total effect...zip, none - PP still works a treat for transferring money around without having a valid CC attached.

Go figure.
 
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BKT

Member
Apr 2, 2010
862
0
16
Auckland/Singaraja
The problem I have with Paypal is they don't allow you to pay and accept payments in IDR, they also don't recognize Indonesian USD accounts. The amount of money lost converting USD to IDR when transfering to a bank account doesn't make it a viable payment option.
 

calitobali

Member
Jul 10, 2008
478
0
16
I agree the conversion rates are pretty bad, but still favorable when compared to Western Union. I really only use Paypal in Indonesia if I for some reason use my girlfriend's credit card while abroad, and need to get money into her account while not in Indonesia to pay the credit card bill.

I think the much larger issue at play here, is that it's foolish for a foreigner to rely solely on Indonesian bank accounts, even if living full time in Indonesia. I know a few who do, and their lives are all the more stressful for it.
 

calitobali

Member
Jul 10, 2008
478
0
16
Wow! Amidst all this negative talk about Paypal and my own complaints that I have about them, they came through today with something really unexpected but highly appreciated.

Upon logging into Mint this morning, I noticed my Paypal balance was much higher than I had expected to see. I logged into Paypal and saw a transfer from Paypal themselves in the amount of $429 for "Refund of non-US ATM fee charge incurred for transactions between Mar 2008 and Oct 2013"

I no longer use my Paypal debit card at ATMs except in emergencies now that I have a bank that refunds ALL ATM fees, but this was a big surprise. Maybe Paypal is stalking this thread and felt I deserved a bit of karma for backing them up publicly. I doubt it, but that's the story I'm going with ;-)

Screen Shot 2014-03-04 at 9.58.50 AM.jpg
 
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Joe Writeson

Member
Jul 30, 2013
591
3
16
Indonesia
How many times will you have to go down to the western union office to collect your $10 for a book being sold until that becomes troublesome?

Never...ten bucks feeds us all for three days!