Corruption in Bali?

[ali alavi]

Hi guys,

I'm still working on the restaurant project and hopefully I'll pay a visit this March (fingers crossed). However I was browsing the net trying to put my hand on additional information regarding life in general in the island when I came across a website blasting away about Bali. Until then, most of the content I had read, found or heard about Bali had been positive. Not all, but most. On this rare occasion the website admin was informing his subscribers about the unfortunate fact of high corruption rates in Bali involving the police force and a local mafia.

I was wondering if there is any fact to this? Of course I'm not naive and I know that even in the paradise island you can bump into a corrupt official here and there. But I need to know if in the case of Bali businesses can be targets of the local mafia? If any of you have ever encountered any problems with the police?

I'm not trying to sound judgmental. I just need to hear about the level of corruption in Bali. I will be more than grateful to receive your valuable insights on this matter.

Regards,

Ali

 

[pollyanna]

You will have a much better feel for the corruption levels and everything else after your March visit. There is a high level of corruption in Bali but perhaps not in the way you're imagining from my reading between your lines. The corruption, so far as I know, does not involve any sort of mafia or thuggery. It often means you pay "under the table" to have documents more speedily executed or that you pay the outstretched hand of the policeman who caught you speeding so you don't have to go to court.

 

[matsaleh]

Hi guys,

I'm still working on the restaurant project and hopefully I'll pay a visit this March (fingers crossed). However I was browsing the net trying to put my hand on additional information regarding life in general in the island when I came across a website blasting away about Bali. Until then, most of the content I had read, found or heard about Bali had been positive. Not all, but most. On this rare occasion the website admin was informing his subscribers about the unfortunate fact of high corruption rates in Bali involving the police force and a local mafia.

I was wondering if there is any fact to this? Of course I'm not naive and I know that even in the paradise island you can bump into a corrupt official here and there. But I need to know if in the case of Bali businesses can be targets of the local mafia? If any of you have ever encountered any problems with the police?

I'm not trying to sound judgmental. I just need to hear about the level of corruption in Bali. I will be more than grateful to receive your valuable insights on this matter.

Regards,

Ali

I'm guessing that particular site you were looking at is written by a crazy guy called Mark Austin, who does everything in his power to defame Bali. Just ignore whatever he writes, he's nuts. :icon_rolleyes:

 

[soontobeexpat]

I'm guessing that particular site you were looking at is written by a crazy guy called Mark Austin, who does everything in his power to defame Bali. Just ignore whatever he writes, he's nuts. :icon_rolleyes:

Ive seen Marks website but have never really paid it the time of day.. Well today I was bored at work and looked on there before coming on here and suprise you guys are talking about it!

Im not sure if he realises how crazy he actually sounds and he is married to an Indonesian girl?? That was the most confusing part for me..

Whats started him going on these bizarre rants about bali? Who is he? does anyone have any insight because I assume this could become quite entertaining

 

[ronb]

I'm guessing that particular site you were looking at is written by a crazy guy called Mark Austin, who does everything in his power to defame Bali. Just ignore whatever he writes, he's nuts. :icon_rolleyes:

"He's nuts" is mild - he has axes to grind.

You can get some idea of the feuds involved by looking at
Mark Andrew Austin v. Crystaltech Web Hosting, et al. - Internet Library of Law and Court Decisions
which outlines court action in the US that Mark Austin initiated against the web hosting service being used by Jack Daniels of Bali Discovery Tours.

 

[soontobeexpat]

Does anyone know what started all of it though? Not talking about the personal slander but the slagging off of bali in general

 

[matsaleh]

Does anyone know what started all of it though? Not talking about the personal slander but the slagging off of bali in general

Off the top of my head, I'd say paranoid delusions common to those suffering from schizophrenia, but you can read his blog here and make up your own mind:
Mark Andrew Austin; Bali, my story

 

[goldminer]

Off the top of my head, I'd say paranoid delusions common to those suffering from schizophrenia, but you can read his blog here and make up your own mind:
Mark Andrew Austin; Bali, my story

Roy and Mark have a real hate/hate relationship, accusing each other of all sorts of things :icon_rolleyes:

 

[soontobeexpat]

hahaha Ive read enough.. just annoys me..

hw do they know each other

 

[ali alavi]

Thank you all.

Pollyana thats not corruption ) Just kidding, I'm sort of used to seeing things like that.


Matsaleh yes thats the guy. I'm relieved everyone over here knows the guy. And I'm glad that you all agree that the guy is a nut case. This means that I don't have to consider his harsh words on Bali.

From what I read here today I get the impression that corruption in Bali is mostly concentrated in tipping a policeman and an official to get things moving faster. That's a whole lot better than the stuff I was reading on Mark Austins website.

Thanks a bunch

 

[gilbert de jong]

well he maybe nuts...but there have been cases in the Lovina area, wich I am sure a couple of pod-members have heard about, like the restaurant (uphill) that closed his doors because of the police who came to eat (and drink there) never paid their bill. Another one is the so called gallery-owner who had to get the heck out of Bali, after he decided not to pay anymore. Groups of 'youngsters' wich can be directed to hang out on a particular part of the sidewalk, making it difficult for potential guests coming into ones resto/bar....just a couple of story's of the top of my head..
friendly greetings, gilbert.

 

[ali alavi]

Can't anything be done?

Thank you Gilbert for the input. Now the question, why didn't these guys do anything about their problems?

Or maybe in Bali there isn't much you can do? Either you pay them (which makes the problem worse, as they keep coming and coming until they drain your business out) or you fight them. From your comment I gather that the second option isn't available over there? You can't file a simple complaint and tell the authorities about the nice policemen and their lovely youngsters?

pooh, mind boggling!

friendly greetings to you Gilbert

 

[pollyanna]

Gilbert's post brings up another issue that Wayan, our friend, guide, counselor, and nominee has to say about buying, living, or leasing in Bali. Wayan often reminds us that it is imperative to not settle into an area that is not friendly and inviting to what it is you are wanting to do; that is, live or run a business.

Just recently on this forum an area was suggested as a beautiful place to consider living in. Wayan had previously steered us away from it because he said the village would not be happy to have us there. He says the first thing to do when looking at property is to go to the village leader and have a discussion. Any beautiful place can begin to look ugly if your neighbours don't want you there or if they are unpleasant people in any regard.

 

[Markit]

Couldn't agree more with the opinion Polyanna and I also believe that therein also lies the answer to the the corruption question.

In the cases mentioned by Gil or anything similar I would suggest that the first course of action is to go to the village head and ask them to help with the problem. I think that if you are on good terms with the locals you will get helped. Even the police have to live somewhere and they are just as open to friendly suggestion from the village head as any of the other members of the community. And if the local "bad boys" are ruining your life the same holds true - go to the village head, that's how it works in most of the world.

Course if you've "porked the pooch" with the locals you aint gonna be happy there no matter how many ceremonies you pay for or kids you send to school I suspect.

 

[soontobeexpat]

Couldn't agree more with the opinion Polyanna and I also believe that therein also lies the answer to the the corruption question.

In the cases mentioned by Gil or anything similar I would suggest that the first course of action is to go to the village head and ask them to help with the problem. I think that if you are on good terms with the locals you will get helped. Even the police have to live somewhere and they are just as open to friendly suggestion from the village head as any of the other members of the community. And if the local "bad boys" are ruining your life the same holds true - go to the village head, that's how it works in most of the world.

Course if you've "porked the pooch" with the locals you aint gonna be happy there no matter how many ceremonies you pay for or kids you send to school I suspect.

How much are the school fees for 1 year at a local school?

 

[gilbert de jong]

Thank you Gilbert for the input. Now the question, why didn't these guys do anything about their problems?

Or maybe in Bali there isn't much you can do? Either you pay them (which makes the problem worse, as they keep coming and coming until they drain your business out) or you fight them. From your comment I gather that the second option isn't available over there? You can't file a simple complaint and tell the authorities about the nice policemen and their lovely youngsters?

pooh, mind boggling!

friendly greetings to you Gilbert

I think wherever someone is the 'stranger' it can happen, I mean not only in Bali this happends.
Like you said, paying till they have drained your finances leaving you only with a lease-contract, wich one of their buddies/bosses will gladly take over.
Fighting is an option..bring some guys over from jawa. That could start some kind of negotiation between the parties, or it's a sure way of your place being torched (villa near Triwasa/Pedawa).
Personally I think filing a report won't help...Like markit said (although he meant it in a dfferent way) the policemen also live somewhere, if you know how I mean it?
For that restaurantowner it wasn't an option as it were the higher ranked police-officers enjoying his food and drinks.
As for the village-head...yeah an option, but just remember that they are only the village head for 5 years (if not re-elected) how closer to electiondate the more likely it is you're barking up the wrong tree
friendly greetings, gilbert.

 

[matsaleh]

hahaha Ive read enough.. just annoys me..

how do they know each other

Roy was previously a friend of Jack (John) Daniels, so if you read the article that Ronb posted, together with Mark's blog, then you'll understand.

 

[springer2003]

Thank you all.

Pollyana thats not corruption ) Just kidding, I'm sort of used to seeing things like that.


Matsaleh yes thats the guy. I'm relieved everyone over here knows the guy. And I'm glad that you all agree that the guy is a nut case. This means that I don't have to consider his harsh words on Bali.

From what I read here today I get the impression that corruption in Bali is mostly concentrated in tipping a policeman and an official to get things moving faster. That's a whole lot better than the stuff I was reading on Mark Austins website.

Thanks a bunch

I would be very defensive on spending large sums of moneys until you conduct a cost and damage impact of were you plan to open your food franchise. I suggest spending a few months visiting the competition, costing of your expected expenditures (add 10 %) and other? when i mentioned other that is the facilitation of your documents. There are as more negative stories then positive and all i suggest is take your time whether you purchase locally (and find that what your require during high season is suddenly not available) obliges you assume the distributors for example of food items have other contracts and priorities. I am making inferences without letting the cat out of the bag and can only recommend a slow immersion without the 5 or ten year contracts or ownership issues.

 

[ali alavi]

Wow

Pollyanna and Markit:

Your comments definitely put some perspective to the whole idea of living in Bali. I will gladly make use of your kindhearted advice.

Gilbert:

Man this is some valuable but scary info. I've worked and lived in different places, I've had problems too but what you're telling me is very discouraging. I'm usually very easy going, but like finances 'keeping cool' has an expiry date also. What about you? or any friends for that matter? Do you guys have to deal with these sort of problems? How have you handled the situation?

Springer2003:

Your comment covers a very interesting factor of the restaurant business. I take it that you're in the business?
You got me thinking. I will have to definitely check out the distributors in Bali and understand the concept of food materials and how, by who, when and where they're imported to Bali.

Thank you guys. You are all life savers.

Ali

 

[gilbert de jong]

hai ali alavi...

I'm sorry that my posting has discouraged you somewhat, that certainly wasn't my intention. My comments were strictly to the lovina area (pretty tight and a who knows who kinda place), wich means that I have no idea how it's going down-south...looks like down there it's a bit more regulated, but then again looks can be deceiving

But like you say, you are very easy going so making friends shouldn't be hard for you. Make the right kind of friends before opening any kind of business...just take it slow. When you've established a base of friends, it can be the time to open up something (resto).

Me personally wouldn't go for a 1-year lease contract, kinda sucks when one has his/hers place up and running,doing good and after that first year the lease-contract will not be extended by the owner for whatever reason.
As for my 'situation' I do not own a business on Bali, I do buy and sell land from time to time, or build here and there but that's more like a hobby. If I would start a business (meaning in it for the money) it needs to have a nett profit of more then the 21% p.a. the bank is paying me to just hold my money
friendly greetings, gilbert.