Second hand book shops

[mugwump]

Kindle vs Ipad

If it's just an ebook reader you're after then the Kindle would be the answer. If you need all the other bells and whistles too then an iPad is an option. But they aren't just a "little" more expensive, around 5x as much.

I am the last guy around to discuss techie topics, but my permanent home is in Seattle where Amazon also dwells and last December while here tried to find a retail outlet so I could take a look at a Kindle in the flesh. Nobody had any in stock! I wound up buying a Nook from Barnes and Noble which even with the help of my grandchild could not use because the keypad was too small for my pickle sized fingers. It went back to Barnes and Noble. (Fortunately purchased items can be returned here).
Upon my return to Bali and stopover in Taiwan I noticed a guy with an Ipad and sat goggle-eyed at him using it. The thing had a human sized keyboard! That is why I bought one; pure and simple. I don't care about all the bells and whistles. It is a matter of necessity and in time I will end up saving what I would have spent on books in Bali, and get a lot more selection to boot. Admittedly Apple is new to the reader scene and their offerings of books needs to grow, but feel that will happen as it is outselling Kindle and Nook greatly. Certainly that fact is not just because of the books app, but it has significantly contributing issue.:icon_biggrin:

 

[Lioness45]

Kindle in Indonesia

The problem isn't that the Kindle won't work. My iPhone Kindle app works just fine. The problem is that Amazon won't sell their Kindle books to people in Indonesia.

Two friends have brought their Kindles to Bali and they work well. I am not sure about getting extra Kindle books in Indonesia though.

 

[mugwump]

News Flash!

I have just been trying to download Kindle books to my Ipad, and discovered that Amazon and Apple are having a dispute and that this is for now not an option. Want to let everyone know that is debating selections because Ipad has a very limited number of books available for download.

 

[Peter Ka]

Free newly published eBooks

Check out welcome - library.nu . They have links to over 400,000 eBooks. Most recently published novels etc. I know this is piracy, but none of the online ebook venders will sell to someone in Indonesia.

 

[phil170258]

Yes, it is piracy, and I don't think just because you have trouble finding books in Bali, that gives you the right to steal.

And you're fooling yourself if you don't think it's stealing, because that's exactly what you're doing.

Download as much Shakespeare, Dickens, Tolstoy, etc as you like, but please think about exactly what you're doing when you download a newly published book.

I'm an author, as are many of my friends, and most of us really struggle to make a living out of it. So when I find one of my books available as a free ebook I hope you understand my frustration.

Phil

 

[ronb]

Ah, it's and ethics discussion where you are talking about my "rights" and what I should feel guilty about.

There is another side to this, and that's the publisher arrangements that authors enter into. If the book is not available for sale in Indonesia, then I, for one, do not feel very guilty in taking advantage of any copy I can get. I know you probably see it differently.

The music industry was really confronted by this some years back - especially when iPods spread so rapidly. Part of the response has been the establishment of ways to pay for downloaded music such as iTunes, Spotify, Amazon Cloud Drive, etc.

Now, with iPads and Kindles spreading quickly, book publishers need to respond.

 

[phil170258]

Ah, it's and ethics discussion where you are talking about my "rights" and what I should feel guilty about.

Not sure what you mean here.


[There is another side to this, and that's the publisher arrangements that authors enter into. If the book is not available for sale in Indonesia, then I, for one, do not feel very guilty in taking advantage of any copy I can get. I know you probably see it differently.]

Ah, so it's the author's fault for not making their books available. Let me tell you how it works: an author will initially sell their book into one territory. If they're Australian then this is usually Aus/NZ. Then the author's agent (or their publisher) will attempt to sell that book into other territories: UK, USA etc. Indonesia is such a miniscule market that the chances of getting a sale here are very limited. Unless, of course, you are JK Rowling or John Grisham. But I can't imagine any author not agreeing to a sale if it was offered.


As for the book not being for sale in Indonesia, somehow gives you the right to take it for nothing, I just don't accept that argument.

Have you tried Amazon? Have you asked friends to bring it in?

I think what happens is that after a while you become accustomed to getting books for free, and you start to actually think that this is your right (which is exactly what happened in the music industry). Another poster proudly boasted how he now 'owned' Shantaraman after downloading it for free. I have seen that book in bookshops here.

If he bought the book there (and the author eventually got paid his/her 10% for their intellectual property) then he has every right to say he 'owned' it. But he doesn't own it in any sense - moral, legal or otherwise. He stole it, and it's as simple as that.


[The music industry was really confronted by this some years back - especially when iPods spread so rapidly. Part of the response has been the establishment of ways to pay for downloaded music such as iTunes, Spotify, Amazon Cloud Drive, etc.

Now, with iPads and Kindles spreading quickly, book publishers need to respond.

]

Yes, I agree. Publishers have been slow to respond to the digital revolution (the same way that the music industry did).

All I'm saying is that when you download a book for free rather then going to the trouble of buying it you are not just taking it from some faceless corporation. That book has somebody's name on the cover, and that somebody spent a huge amount of time and effort, sweat and tears, to write that book. And it seems only fair to me that the author gets some recompense for their effort.

 

[Markit]

Frankly I don't see how a downloaded book is any different than one borrowed from a library.

I download a book, read it and delete it.

I buy a book, read it and throw it away

I borrow a book, read it and bring it back


Which of these methods is most ecologically sound?

Which is most convenient for me?

Is it my fault if the publishing industry continues chopping down trees?

Is it my fault if the author is paid a mere pittance from the full price of the book?

If there is any industry out there that has had more warning of what was to come then I would like to here of it.

 

[ferdy]

Ah, it's and ethics discussion where you are talking about my "rights" and what I should feel guilty about.

There is another side to this, and that's the publisher arrangements that authors enter into. If the book is not available for sale in Indonesia, then I, for one, do not feel very guilty in taking advantage of any copy I can get. I know you probably see it differently.

The music industry was really confronted by this some years back - especially when iPods spread so rapidly. Part of the response has been the establishment of ways to pay for downloaded music such as iTunes, Spotify, Amazon Cloud Drive, etc.

Now, with iPads and Kindles spreading quickly, book publishers need to respond.

I thought they invented E-books for this? The main reason why many bookshops are closing down in Australia

 

[phil170258]

Frankly I don't see how a downloaded book is any different than one borrowed from a library.

I download a book, read it and delete it.

I buy a book, read it and throw it away

I borrow a book, read it and bring it back


Which of these methods is most ecologically sound?

Which is most convenient for me?

Is it my fault if the publishing industry continues chopping down trees?

Is it my fault if the author is paid a mere pittance from the full price of the book?

If there is any industry out there that has had more warning of what was to come then I would like to here of it.

Big difference between downloading a free book and borrowing from a library in that an author gets recompense for the latter and not the former.

It's called PLR (Public Lending Right) and basically a survey is done to ascertain how many of an author's books are in public libraries and they are then paid according to this number.

We're no talking huge amounts of money here but I can tell you that this yearly cheque is always very welcome in our house!

 

[rayq]

]

Yes, I agree. Publishers have been slow to respond to the digital revolution (the same way that the music industry did).

All I'm saying is that when you download a book for free rather then going to the trouble of buying it you are not just taking it from some faceless corporation. That book has somebody's name on the cover, and that somebody spent a huge amount of time and effort, sweat and tears, to write that book. And it seems only fair to me that the author gets some recompense for their effort.

Well, I think I started this by asking about second hand book shops.

And, to that question a got a multiplicity of valuable responses.

One of them, contained a complex set of instructions to download some e reader software.

Well, I went back to Australia to see my family, and bought a Sony E-Reader.

My daughter (reads 2 books a week, while neglecting my grand childre, I am sure) helped me get it 'going'.

Last I saw of it, as she 'borrowed it'.

However, from the hours I spent using it, I am a fan (of the concept).

My son is beginning his travels, and has an e-Reader on his notebook. So do I, now.

It's called "u Reader" from the u Torrent stable.

Downloads are free, of course, and I happily read a selection of (older) books.

Ethics are very important, and I would pay someone for this, but, at the moment, I sense, that the "suits" cannot (still) understand the internet. One must ask about their KPI's.

Sorry about the corporate 'speak'.

 

[zoyra]

Using Kindle in Indonesia

The problem isn't that the Kindle won't work. My iPhone Kindle app works just fine. The problem is that Amazon won't sell their Kindle books to people in Indonesia.

Hi Pollyanna,

I know this posting is not a recent one, but maybe you can help me here. Did you register your account with Amazon using your indonesian address? I am thinking of getting a Kindle (buying it in Singapore) and was also advised to register the account with amazon using a non-indonesian address (eg. Singapore or somewhere else). By doing this - I was told - that I won't have any problems ordering any books I want when I am in Bali or somewhere else in Indonesia. Friends of mine here in Bali brought their Kindle with them and they don't have any problems buying any books from Amazon. Their amazon account address are in the US and Europe - so, might this be the reason? And for payment, of course they are using a non Indonesian credit card/debit card.

Anybody out there can advise? Thank you.

 

[pollyanna]

You may get a response from people more knowledgeable than i am but my experience with Kindle is that they can "see" that I'm now in Indonesia. I realize that can be worked around but I don't have any credit cards with an address in another country and I've never figured out how to work around that.
I had Kindle in Australia and didn't have problems although even there we didn't have access to the full range of ebooks available in the U.S. The situation became impossible though when we moved to Indonesia and the credit card addresses changed countries. If you can get a credit card with a US address you will be fine but I haven't figured out how to do that. We have a bank account in the US but because we aren't resident there we cannot get a credit card with a US address through our US bank.
Travellers based in the US wouldn't have a problem because, as you pointed out, they are using non-indo cards.

 

[zoyra]

You may get a response from people more knowledgeable than i am but my experience with Kindle is that they can "see" that I'm now in Indonesia. I realize that can be worked around but I don't have any credit cards with an address in another country and I've never figured out how to work around that.
I had Kindle in Australia and didn't have problems although even there we didn't have access to the full range of ebooks available in the U.S. The situation became impossible though when we moved to Indonesia and the credit card addresses changed countries. If you can get a credit card with a US address you will be fine but I haven't figured out how to do that. We have a bank account in the US but because we aren't resident there we cannot get a credit card with a US address through our US bank.
Travellers based in the US wouldn't have a problem because, as you pointed out, they are using non-indo cards.

Thanks a lot, Polly. It doesn't matter whether you consider yourself 'more knowledgeable' or not - they way you explain things to me (and all other readers) are always clear and understandable - and most importantly, you always answer one's question. Thanks for this.
The thing about that they can 'see' you in Indonesia is probably because of the IP address - and I believe that there is a way to 'go around' it. Well, i guess the best option is still to buy it in the US or Canada and ask someone to 'buy' gift cards.

 

[pollyanna]

Thanks a lot, Polly. It doesn't matter whether you consider yourself 'more knowledgeable' or not - they way you explain things to me (and all other readers) are always clear and understandable - and most importantly, you always answer one's question. Thanks for this.
The thing about that they can 'see' you in Indonesia is probably because of the IP address - and I believe that there is a way to 'go around' it. Well, i guess the best option is still to buy it in the US or Canada and ask someone to 'buy' gift cards.

Zoyra, I'm not certain but I think it doesn't matter where you buy the reader, it just the subsequent downloads that can become problematic. Before investing a lot of money in the reader it would be good to make sure the gift card idea will work. I tried that at one point and still had a problem but that may have been with Fictionwise (Barnes & Noble) not Kindle. I just can't remember.

I know I can get a US or other country IP address but that wouldn't solve the problem. Amazon has tied this problem of buying from countries other than the US up very tightly and there don't seem to be any obvious loopholes.

 

[rayq]

Hi Pollyana,

My current experience is that Kindle/Nook/ Etc. don't like to 'deal' in Indonesia. So when I go back to Australia to visit family, I buy my books then.

My credit card has an Australian account attached, and local address, but it seems, at least Kindle,
knows where I am.

Hopefully, one of my kids can sort me out when I next return.

BTW I have sent a query to Amazon, but await a response.

 

[zoyra]

Thanks Polly and RayQ -

Ray, do let us know if you get a reply from Amazon. On the other hand, a friend of mine (living here in Bali) doesn't have any problems buying ebooks for his kindle. He has the Wifi version, so everytime he buys, he needs to connect his kindle to his laptop/pc. Meaning the IP address can be seen. So far he was able to buy everything he wanted. However, his kindle is registered in the US and he is paying with a US credit card and billing address is also in the US.

Keep me posted, please and thank you.

 

[spicyayam]

I am going to get a Kindle next month. I have the software installed on my laptop and have bought a couple of books from the Kindle store without any problems, using an Australian cc. I like the experience even on my laptop and Amazon make it very easy to buy books. The whole location thing seems so crazy to me. I am sure eventually you will be able to buy anything from anywhere. It's the book publishers who are holding out, but they will all soon be a thing of the past.

If you get the 3G version, you can apparently getting internet for free anywhere in the world. It is good enough apparently for checking email/facebook. You might also be interested in this Google chrome extension, where you can send any web page to your Kindle to read later: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ipkfnchcgalnafehpglfbommidgmalan

The cheapest Kindle is now $79 which I think is pretty good and if you didn't like it I am sure you could sell it fairly easily.

 

[rayq]

I certainly will provide info as it comes to hand.

My suspicion is, that when I first tried to becom an Amazon client, I was up here. Thus (possibly) it can't 'forget' my first contact.

Regards

Ray

 

[rayq]

I am going to get a Kindle next month. I have the software installed on my laptop and have bought a couple of books from the Kindle store without any problems, using an Australian cc. I like the experience even on my laptop and Amazon make it very easy to buy books. The whole location thing seems so crazy to me. I am sure eventually you will be able to buy anything from anywhere. It's the book publishers who are holding out, but they will all soon be a thing of the past.

If you get the 3G version, you can apparently getting internet for free anywhere in the world. It is good enough apparently for checking email/facebook. You might also be interested in this Google chrome extension, where you can send any web page to your Kindle to read later: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ipkfnchcgalnafehpglfbommidgmalan

The cheapest Kindle is now $79 which I think is pretty good and if you didn't like it I am sure you could sell it fairly easily.

My son tells me the $79.00 unit should be all I need, and may(?) have one waiting for me next year.

So much excitement.