werecoming

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Mar 29, 2012
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so If my husband was coming over once a month and staying only 6 days or so, and then leaving - since he is the moneymaker would that mean no tax, and if I read your last post, I have to leave every three months to renew visa? sorry if I sound dumb but would actually love to sit with someone with my list of questions in hand and fire away :)
Deb, there is a group getting together in august to do the question / answer session. They might be happy for You to go along. I'd love to be there but unfortunately will be in aus. The thread is in this forum but I can't post a link.

We're coming
 
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davita

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2012
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This is a copy/paste from the expat indonesian website which is considered useful for newcomer expats to Indonesia

What Income is Included

The Indonesian personal taxation system is based on worldwide income. This includes:
•Any salary paid to you for your current position, whether it be onshore or offshore
•Dividend and interest income, both onshore and offshore
•Rental income both onshore and offshore
•Capital gains from sale of property, both offshore and onshore

Benefits in Kind are generally excluded: Housing, Cars, School fees, as well as income from inheritance. However, if your company pays you for housing in one lump sum, and then you make the payments ... the tax office may construe that lump sum as income. In this case, it may be better for your employer to pay the housing costs direct to the landlord. You take the money as an advance, not as housing allowance. The company then expenses one month at a time as housing, which is then treated as a fringe benefit.

Credit is given for income tax paid overseas, subjected to limits and perhaps dependent on double taxation treaties between Indonesia and your home country. You may also receive credit for tax taken on interest income for local bank accounts and time deposits and other interest earning methods that are taxed.

Since income from overseas investments can be taxed by the Indonesian government, it is best to consult your accountant and your financial consultant to determine how regulations will affect any current and future investment strategies.
 

werecoming

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Mar 29, 2012
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Gilbert, Thanks for that, I think I have a headache now. I hope my accountant can make sense of that.

Looks to me that having a place to live only in Indonesia can expose someone on income generated in Aus through business or realestate profits, although also looks like a credit can be claimed back against tax paid in Aus. Maybe I could claim the cost of a Villa against income

My situation would have me simply using an internet connection and mobile phone to deal with a business in Aus where I would have partners on the ground. I could do it from the moon with enough broadband. Although it has nothing at all to do with Indonesia I still may have some tax issue to get my accountant to look at.

What I found particularly interesting is the free exchange of information between the govt agencies.

From ready that I don't think Deb would have any issues at all with her husband living mostly in Aus.

Thanks again,

We're coming
 

Lea

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Jun 11, 2012
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Moving to Bali

Deb,,I am sitting with my flanny pjs and dressing gown...Almost below zero here in Bridgetown...I am almost in the same place you are in right now...My husband works as a fly in fly out in Newman..We will be moving to Bali in December with our two sons...One is 15 and the other 21...Visiting Bali in September to find a long term rental in Sanur..Since you are going thru the same as me maybe I can help in any small way...Would love to email to you...
 

gilbert de jong

Active Member
Jan 20, 2009
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Panji, Singaraja.
hahaha...yeah, sorry for the headache...hahaha.

in simple words, you can't get taxed twice over the same income...wich in your case is generated in Australia, and thus you pay taxes on it overthere.
If you have an NPWP (indonesian taxnumber) then Legally you should put your australian income in/on your Indonesian tax-report.
If for example you rent out a home on Bali and therefor make income, this should also be filed in your Australian tax-report..but you would pay taxes here in Indonesia.

The info exchange rarely happens, but is possible when according to the tax-office things don't add up..
I think it is very wise to ask your accountant or some other professional who's specialized in keeping the most in your pocket instead of the governments pocket :)

You're right imho, Deb's husband would be coming on a VOA and that would be the day if 'tourists' would have to pay taxes over their homeland income, hahaha.
 

davita

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2012
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Australia is like Indonesia, Canada and UK and uses residency to decide where income tax is due. For example, if Indonesia is the country of residence and it requires all those exceeding 183 days in any year to file, then there is no requirement to declare Indonesian income or any other offshore income in Australia if not resident for tax purpose. To become non-resident for tax purpose generally means that most connections to Australia have to be severed.
Only income generated in Australia needs to be declared to the Australian tax authority.

However, all world income must be declared to the Indonesian tax authority. Any tax paid on Australian income is thus subtracted from the Indonesian tax liability so, as Gilbert said, it avoids double taxation.

It would be the reverse if Australia was the country of residency and income was gained in Indonesia on a rental villa, for example. Indonesia would tax on that income and Australia would deduct that tax paid before checking if the Australian rate is higher.

This process is different to those residing in Malaysia on a 10 year MM2H visa. They explicitly do not require a declaration of any income not sourced in Malaysia.
This can be useful as many countries, like Hong Kong, do not tax income, only salary. Therefore, if resident on MM2H any Interest, Dividend, Investment or Capital Gain sourced from Hong Kong would be received tax-free and not required to be declared to Malaysia's tax authority.
 

no.idea

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Feb 22, 2011
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There is a group meeting happening in Sanur at the Ducks Nuts on Jalan Tambingan at around noon. ( okay someone who does not understand nominated 10 AM but noon onwards is more reasonable.). Please come along and join in, Ask these questions there.
Ignore much of the rubbish you read on the websites and blogs.
A contributor on this forum has recently released a "helpful" book of comments after living here for 3 years . Sadly a lot of that is crap.
Talk to people who have done the exact same thing as you are planning and they can possibly help you.
For an example here as an incorrect statement from a "helpful" web site.
It is utter rubbish,
quote "The majority of expats living in Bali are here on what is called the Sosial Budaya Visa (Social Culture Visa) also referred to with the index of 211" unquote.
The problem is that people read and believe this type of tripe. It is not the truth it is simply a misinformed comment from the writer. Sadly folk planning to come here read this drivel and believe that it must be fact.
 

werecoming

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Mar 29, 2012
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No.idea,

Do you believe that most expats living in Bali are on kitas visas or visa on arrival? Voas seems doable but at additional cost to fly out more regularly.
I'm excluding those who have married to a local as they are a different category all together as I understand it.

We're coming
 

Bec1

New Member
Jun 25, 2012
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Hi Deb, we are in the same situation. My husband does fly in fly out work, month on and 6 days off. We are planning to move in October with my 2 .5 year old daughter. If you do make the move it would be good to catch up with u.
 

Bec1

New Member
Jun 25, 2012
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Hi Lea, I hear exactly what you are saying. Im so over the cold. My husband does the same thing, we are moving in October. I will be by myself with our 2.5 year old daughter most of the time. I dont know anyone there. Would love to email you.?
 

Lea

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Jun 11, 2012
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Gibbndip, Thankyou for your personnel message....want to message back and ask you a million questions but I have to post 10 posts first.....If u are oay with it can u send me your email address so we can keep in contact....
 

Lea

Member
Jun 11, 2012
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Hey Bec....WOuld love to email you.....send me a email and I will reply to you....
 

werecoming

Member
Mar 29, 2012
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Tasmania
hahaha...yeah, sorry for the headache...hahaha.

in simple words, you can't get taxed twice over the same income...wich in your case is generated in Australia, and thus you pay taxes on it overthere.
I've done a bit more research regarding tax issues running an Australian business from Bali. If you are not an Australian resident (which I wouldn't be) then the personal income tax rate in Australia goes to 32 cents in the dollar for every dollar up to $80k. Sadly I've had this confirmed by my accountant, so I am now looking at way to get around this.
 

Deb b

New Member
Jul 16, 2012
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Hi Bec and Lea
Sorry I have not responded sooner, my computer sadly has not kept me up to date with the thread and has only just now decided to let me know. I would love to keep in contact with you both, I am in Bunbury and even though the sun is shining it is still freezing and I have the heater on lol. My email address is rumourdog7 at bigpond . com. Have to write it this way if either of you would like to email me. I went over in July and found a house to rent and have signed for two years to start, at this stage we wont be living there straight away but it gives us the opportunity to see how things are done eg electricity, staff, and stuff before it becomes permanent :) Lea are you on the FIFO group on FB? Bec1 Not sure where you are located xx
 

gilbert de jong

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Jan 20, 2009
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Panji, Singaraja.
I've done a bit more research regarding tax issues running an Australian business from Bali. If you are not an Australian resident (which I wouldn't be) then the personal income tax rate in Australia goes to 32 cents in the dollar for every dollar up to $80k. Sadly I've had this confirmed by my accountant, so I am now looking at way to get around this.

personal incometax as in salary that you receive from the company, right?...
 

werecoming

Member
Mar 29, 2012
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personal incometax as in salary that you receive from the company, right?...
Yes Gilbert, that's correct. My plan was to income split with my wife and pay roughly $7,000 tax depending on how much we would earn from our share of the business. Now I'm facing a tax bill of $24,000 roughly which is potentially a game changer for us.

Technically the FIFO's would have the same problem I would have thought as they aren't living in Aus and would be deemed as Foreign residents......Any FIFOs come across this problem?
 

gilbert de jong

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Jan 20, 2009
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Panji, Singaraja.
you won the business right? Can't you give yourself a very low salary, hence your incometax isn't much.
money that you've cut from your salary flows back into the business, then the business makes 'investments' abroad, aka money goes to your bankaccount here on Bali.
Unfortunately these investments make zero dollar...
Know what I mean?
 

werecoming

Member
Mar 29, 2012
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Tasmania
you won the business right? Can't you give yourself a very low salary, hence your incometax isn't much.
money that you've cut from your salary flows back into the business, then the business makes 'investments' abroad, aka money goes to your bankaccount here on Bali.
Unfortunately these investments make zero dollar...
Know what I mean?
Gilbert, I like the way you think, I'm not sure if it's doable though. My accountant having a look at it for me trying to find a work around.