Mark...By social pass holders, if you mean Sosbud, you will remember that visa needs a Sponsor. The Sponsor's duty ensures responsibility for all financial obligations etc. of the person they sponsor....including medical bills.
Mark...By social pass holders, if you mean Sosbud, you will remember that visa needs a Sponsor. The Sponsor's duty ensures responsibility for all financial obligations etc. of the person they sponsor....including medical bills.
Surely that cannot be unlimited or no one would ever agree to act as a sponsor (especially agents who sponsor literally thousands of people)... Of course, Mr. Bourke had been living in Bali for 10+ years, so he must have had a sponsor for sosbud or kitas/kitap? Even if he had a retirement kitas he required insurance. Unfortunately, it seems like the sponsor 'duty' did not work out so well for him. No, I think the whole sponsor responsibility concept is a bit of a crock and totally unreliable - good luck to anyone expecting their local sponsor to shell out for their emergency medical treatment... Expats intending to live in Indonesia (even with sosbud) should be required to have their own medical and evacuation insurance as a condition of stay.
You're correct Mark.
It isn't the sponsor's duty to provide all these funds...it IS the personal responsibility of the visitor and, if the State is 'out of pocket' due to a foreigner having outstanding unpaid bills, then the State can go after the sponsor to fund those bills. Sponsorship therefore forms a type of indemnity insurance....which, I'd wager, most sponsor's are unaware of, otherwise sponsorships maybe wouldn't be so freely available or might cost.
More reason for us (you are volunteering to be my partner right) to explore this booth in the arrival hall....selling insurance...:icon_e_biggrin:
With regard to Mr Bourke I read his wife agreed to fund the surgery....maybe she was his sponsor.
That is why an agent sponsors for a retirement visa and why it's so expensive...the agent will be held liable for any moneys owed to the gov't so they insure against that liability.
It is also why most Embassy/Consuls require evidence that the sponsor has sufficient financial resources to be a sponsor.
Malaysia MM2H program is much smarter...they require a fixed deposit (FD) from the applicant to be liened from the bank to the State. It is your deposit and interest accrueing but it cannot be cashed except for...hospital bills, education, purchase property...etc.
I know this because I've just been to KL's Putrajaya Gov't Office to cancel my MM2H and recover my FD.
Good point RonB as it also happened to me only a month ago when I had my surgery. My wife signed for much more than our credit card limit but a quick call to our HSBC Personal Relationship Officer in Jakarta quickly sorted that issue. Helps having a Premium Account.
This whole sponsor thing is total bull****. I know people whose sponsor is their pembantu! WTF!!! Whatfor do I need a sponsor if in the end I am anyway responsible for everything??? I do not think any "sponsor" has ever come up with money for whatever.
In practice you may be correct but that is the current Indonesian response if the foreigner skips town and leaves a mess behind. If they see it isn't working they may reform......which could make it much more difficult for all of us who wish to live here.
What method would you suggest, mrsgabry, to ensure a foreign visitor, without funds nor medical insurance, is not a financial burden to the Indonesian gov't, or its hospital staff, if he/she encounters a medical issue requiring treatment i.e. who will pay?
"There are many ways to skin a cat."
I believe he had an Indo wife who he was in the process of divorcing so she would have been his "sponsor" - "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" hence his lack of treatment.
Moral of the story: if you are going to marry a much younger Indo woman and play house with here. Don't.
And if you think his treatment was appalling by the hospital staff here never, but never get in an accident in the good old US of A. Even with insurance it can be terrible. Know personally of a case where 3 insured Brits where all in IC from the same accident and their insurance agent was there every day badgering the docs to get them on a plane out of the country regardless of stabilization or medical necessity. Just get them out!
I really never understood the sponsor system,since 2006 my sponsor was never asked for proof of finances,simply typed me a letter in Indonesian, I have no idea what it contained,but it didn't contain proof of their financial situation,i submitted that letter with the necessary forms and withing 2 days I got my social visa,
However last year when I went for my visa they informed me that they had recently changed the rules,now I have to submit my bank statement,which makes sence,so in reality now both myself and my sponsor are responsible for me while im in Ri,because I left it so late to get my visa I ran out of time,hence I arrived on a VOA,which I could extend,this was a much better option for me because the social is too restrictive if i plan on travelling within the country,
I think that the sponsor thing should be done away with and anyone staying 30 days or more should have to show proof of sufficient funds and also proof of medical insurance to cover them while they are in the country,
However last year when I went for my visa they informed me that they had recently changed the rules,now I have to submit my bank statement,which makes sence,so in reality now both myself and my sponsor are responsible for me while im in Ri,because I left it so late to get my visa I ran out of time,hence I arrived on a VOA,which I could extend,this was a much better option for me because the social is too restrictive if i plan on travelling within the country,
I think that the sponsor thing should be done away with and anyone staying 30 days or more should have to show proof of sufficient funds and also proof of medical insurance to cover them while they are in the country,
Sosbuds are administered and issued by independant RI Embassies/Consuls and consequently arbitrary, depending on the local understanding of the rules. For example...Vancouver always required my sponsor's last 3 months bank statements.
I agree with nydave that proof of funds and medical insurance, from the applicant, should be the criteria and place sole responsibility on the traveller. A simple letter of introduction, with a contact address, would thus only be required from Indonesia. This could be easily administered.
I don't understand why you say the Sosbud is more restrictive to travelling within RI than a VOA.
I understand the Sosbud extension process as I've done many but a VOA, requiring an extension within RI, means leaving the country within 60 days. So I don't understand why that is less restrictive for travelling than a Sosbud, which permits staying for 60 days before an extension is even required.
If 60 days visit is enough then maybe a Tourist Visa, issued by the same Embassy/Consul as a Sosbud, is better as it doesn't need a sponsor.
I have no idea about a tourist visa,i usually stay 5 months at a time,as you know the VOA that is extendable can be extended anywhere In Ri which suits me ,so for example if I`m in Bali I can extend it there,if im in Bali and need to extend the social I have to go back to Surabaya to do so,im quite happy to leave withing 60 days to Singapore or Kl,for a couple of days and then return again,just works better for me, im sure every situation is different,
Most people found the social visa an ideal way to spend years (decades!) in Indonesia and to get around the problem of the monthly renewal it was always the best option to let the agent hang on to your passport and simply do the renewals as and when they were required. Allowing 6 months of relative freedom - apart from the one appointment for fingerprinting and photography somewhere around month 3...
I did this myself for years and thoroughly enjoyed the occasional trip to Singapore to renew where it is the work of a day and back to Paradise in the evening after hours at the Scotch tasting bar in Duty Free.
Genial, I always thought?
I did this myself for years and thoroughly enjoyed the occasional trip to Singapore to renew where it is the work of a day and back to Paradise in the evening after hours at the Scotch tasting bar in Duty Free.
Genial, I always thought?
Nydave... thanks for responding (#32). Clearly you've identified what works for you so it's a personal choice.
Markit's idea (#33) has merit but I suspect he used an agent as sponsor. If using family, friend or an-other....this process may not be available.
Markit's idea (#33) has merit but I suspect he used an agent as sponsor. If using family, friend or an-other....this process may not be available.
Agents are happy to take over at any point in the process - I used to get my own Social Visa in London and then deliver it to the gentle ladies at Bali IDE to push along with. Talk to Yoni.
Hi Davita, what "financial burden" do you talk about? They let you rot in hospital without treatment anyway until you or someone else comes up with the money. We have just seen that. And in this case it was also not the "sponsor" who came up with the money. I can not remember that this ever happened.
I don't know the facts you mention in your quote...only what Fairfax Media reported and was copied by other Australian media.
I've not seen any local commentary except from BaliDiscovery....Bali News: Who Struck Neil?. They didn't verify he was rotting in hospital, nor about any 12 hour delay that the Australian media professed...it just says he didn't have funds and the Australian Consulate was providing limited assistance.
If the Australian Consul would comment further we would have more info....therefore I wont speculate.
You said the sponsor system is bull**** so I wondered if you had a better idea...:icon_question:
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After giving further thought of my suggestion that anyone staying for 30 days or more should have to show proof of medical insurance,that might affect the VOA system,meaning does immigration refuse a VOA because the tourist doesn't have insurance ?,just another thought,maybe they could compel the visitor to purchase insurance upon entry to RI, then again that's probably just another opportunity for them to inflate the cost and make a little on the side,
The red accented is exactly what I read the RI Gov't was contemplating over a year ago.....but haven't heard anything since.
If visitors arrive, without the resources/insurance to pay for medical bills, and say rent a motorbike and have an accident requiring hospitalisation.....who is supposed to pay the medical bills?