Foreigner Owning Property IN BALI appears to be LEGAL!!!

[Markit]

If foreign ownership were illegal then this guy would not be going to jail. What do you think?
Imprisoned on Appeal


Supreme Court Send Bali Lawyer Rizaldy Wartuty to Prison for Fraud in a Property Deal

(11/23/2014)
A lawyer in Bali, Rizaldy D. Wartuty (44) has seen the Indonesian Supreme Court alter a lower court sentence and imposed three years in prison for fraud and financial malfeasance amounting to Rp. 37 billion (US$3,08 million) in connection with property transactions he handled on the Island.

In the original court decision it was ruled that the Bali lawyer had not committed a criminal act as charged and the matter was purely a civil or contract law matter.

Bali’s prosecutors were unhappy with the Denpasar Court’s ruling and brought the matter to the Supreme Court who found Wartuty criminally responsible and imposed the three-year sentence.

Prosecutors pleaded before both the Denpasar Court and the Supreme Court that Rizaldy had created two contracts that caused substantial losses to his client, Nicholas John Hyam. Prosecutors also charged the Denpasar lawyer with misusing a power of attorney issued by his client in order to improperly position himself as a nominee in the purchase of land in Bali.

Prosecutors in Bali are waiting for formal copies of the Supreme Court’s decision that will allow authorities to being the lawyer to prison to serve his sentence.

Source: Bali News: Imprisoned on Appeal

FOR THE BACK STORY:
Briton to report dispute to National Police | The Jakarta Post

AND HERE:
Court Clears Bali Lawyer and Canadian Ally of Embezzlement - The Jakarta Globe

Frankly I'm at a loss...

 

[davita]

I'm also at a loss to understand. Clearly they all knew the legal situation and were in cahoots to obviate the law...the law then bit them in the ass. I wonder where the money went.

 

[Peter Ka]

Now it will be interesting to see what happens to Gina Machura https://www.facebook.com/gina.machura?fref=ts&ref=br_tf

 

[Markit]

I'm also at a loss to understand. Clearly they all knew the legal situation and were in cahoots to obviate the law...the law then bit them in the ass. I wonder where the money went.

Yeah but in the end it actually upheld the claims of the English "owner" that they had cheated him out of his rightfully owned land.

Legally if the Brit had not had a rightful title to the property, or at the very least a claim, then there should have been no case for the lawyer to answer. I'm sure that's the way the lawyer saw it.

I would think Gina will be looking around for new opportunities in Thailand/India/FeckingAnywhere but Indo.

 

[Mark]

We are pretty short on the actual facts of this case, however the outcome could also be interpreted to mean that anyone involved in creating a nominee structure to help a foreigner illegally 'own' land is guilty of a fraudulent act...

 

[davita]

Yeah but in the end it actually upheld the claims of the English "owner" that they had cheated him out of his rightfully owned land.

Legally if the Brit had not had a rightful title to the property, or at the very least a claim, then there should have been no case for the lawyer to answer. I'm sure that's the way the lawyer saw it.

Sorry markit but I couldn't see where anyone said the the English "owner' was cheated out of his 'rightfully owned' land. Can you point to that statement and by whom...thanks.

 

[dino]

just get them out all, thom who try to avoid the law

ever one knows, and not only in indonesi and / or bali, it is NOT allowed as foreighner to own property ( land, house, and everything else on the land ), so why those people try to get a cerificate what shows they are the owner. Omggggggggggggg we talking about millions of dollars yah, who can be sooo stupid to fall for this trick.

ONCE and for all, IT IS NOT ALLOWED TO OWN SOME PROPERTY IN INDONESIA, PHILIPINES, THAILAND, all your investments will be gone after you finished buildijng villa or business. They wait till you done, and claim it then from you. ALL GONE, and you can be happy if you not got jaliled, so better agree quickly with them, at lowest court

good luck for all the potentional investers, what wanne get rit of their money.

You buying illegal documents, it is NOT possible for foreigner to own property, why no one listen and try to bribe, and got apalsu document, and afterwards he lost all

i can only say, IDIOTS, no mercy, ruling is clear

 

[dino]

even for those guys whom renting land, maybe they not understand the ruling.

all you build on the rental land, is property of the owner of the land, it is NOT yours

be carefull, lately i noticed alot of cheap land for rent, super location and really cheap, but max of 5 years rent
so after you finished your villa,they not extend your contract, and the villa is theirs, cuzz you builded on their land
and dont try to destroy it after you found out they not extend contract, you will be jailed for destroy property NOT yours
so here comes the ruling again, as foreighner with NO indo passport, you own NOTHING here even you invest 1 million dollar, it is NOT yours

when finally foreighners get to understand? phefffffffffff or they want to try invest alot of money for the locals, that would be great, hahahahhaa

after your RENTAL contract is done, and you have to do rental if you dont have indo citizenship, all buildings ( means your villa, pool, terras, garden etc... belongs to the owner of the land.

he maybe will say, terima kasih banyak, but that is all you get

so be carefull rental land also here, locals get smart and tricky also, and a notary dont care the contract, he is not adviser

so if you looking for land as foreigher, drop a line to me, i have several location, and rental time 30 years, so enough for your enjoy/business you can use it for 30 years
dont fall for those trick for 5 year rental, they steal your villa afterwards, and buy land you can not, dont fall for that also, they rip you off your money

 

[Markit]

1) The Denpasar District Court acquitted on Tuesday an Indonesian lawyer and his alleged Canadian accomplice of embezzling Rp 37.4 billion ($3.91 million) from the lawyer’s client.

2) Rizaldy offered to buy the land on Hyam’s behalf for a $5,000 fee. The 28,700-square-meter lot, Rizaldy claimed, was worth Rp 1.3 million per square meter.
3)The Briton became irate after discovering that the land was worth only Rp 800,000 per square meter, and reported the case to the Bali Police, accusing Rizaldy of fraud and embezzlement.

He lost that time but was pissed!

4) "My next strategy is to bring the case to the National Police because the Bali Police did nothing to help me get my money back," Nicholas John Hyam told The Jakarta Post on Thursday.

5) At the time Hyam appointed Rizaldi as the land's nominee pending the completion of his Foreign Direct Investment (PMA) document.

6)"He asked me to pay $5,000 for the PMA, but I have still not received it. He stole my money," Hyam said Sunday.

7)The legal land procurement agreement was made between Rizaldi and Reinta Sortaria Situmorang, the previous land owner.

And finally:

8)Prosecutors pleaded before both the Denpasar Court and the Supreme Court that Rizaldy had created two contracts that caused substantial losses to his client, Nicholas John Hyam. Prosecutors also charged the Denpasar lawyer with misusing a power of attorney issued by his client in order to improperly position himself as a nominee in the purchase of land in Bali.


In looking over this again I'm still confused but with slightly more understanding of what looks to have gone down.

It seems to suggest that the lawyer had agreed to be nominee for Hyam until Hyam could take legal ownership of the land using the PMA configuration the lawyer was paid $5k to set up - which is no longer possible, but was in 2005 (older residents please chime in).

In conclusion: "Prosecutors in Bali are waiting for formal copies of the Supreme Court’s decision that will allow authorities to bering the lawyer to prison to serve his sentence."

 

[Markit]

Gee Dino you're just the kind of guy I'd want for a nominee. NOT!

 

[dino]

i not really care what you want or need

just dont post false messages here

every idiot know it is NOT possible to own property in Indonesia ( that includes also Bali, maybe you didnt know that )

so what is your topic? Suprised a notary got jailed becouse frauded documents?

omgggg, are there no better post here in this, this is COMMON know issue that it can NOT

try to put some constructive post, so it really can help for the poor whom have no idea how and what.

Now you suggestion, people as foreighner can own property here, according your thread

i see, you posted over 5000 times, and got 52 times a thanks, emmmmmmm means you have average of 1 % of your post valued as usefull.

sounds to me as a spammer, only spread around rumours, false information etcc..... that is not the idea of this forum

you should help, not put the unknown more deep inside the garbage

highly NOT recomended member for facts

 

[davita]

5 posts...attempting to sell property..condemning a well respected member for something he never said......purposely demeaning everyone alse as idiots or stupid...

Any moderation needed?

 

[dino]

1) The Denpasar District Court acquitted on Tuesday an Indonesian lawyer and his alleged Canadian accomplice of embezzling Rp 37.4 billion ($3.91 million) from the lawyer’s client.

2) Rizaldy offered to buy the land on Hyam’s behalf for a $5,000 fee. The 28,700-square-meter lot, Rizaldy claimed, was worth Rp 1.3 million per square meter.
3)The Briton became irate after discovering that the land was worth only Rp 800,000 per square meter, and reported the case to the Bali Police, accusing Rizaldy of fraud and embezzlement.

He lost that time but was pissed!

4) "My next strategy is to bring the case to the National Police because the Bali Police did nothing to help me get my money back," Nicholas John Hyam told The Jakarta Post on Thursday.

5) At the time Hyam appointed Rizaldi as the land's nominee pending the completion of his Foreign Direct Investment (PMA) document.

6)"He asked me to pay $5,000 for the PMA, but I have still not received it. He stole my money," Hyam said Sunday.

7)The legal land procurement agreement was made between Rizaldi and Reinta Sortaria Situmorang, the previous land owner.

And finally:

8)Prosecutors pleaded before both the Denpasar Court and the Supreme Court that Rizaldy had created two contracts that caused substantial losses to his client, Nicholas John Hyam. Prosecutors also charged the Denpasar lawyer with misusing a power of attorney issued by his client in order to improperly position himself as a nominee in the purchase of land in Bali.


In looking over this again I'm still confused but with slightly more understanding of what looks to have gone down.

It seems to suggest that the lawyer had agreed to be nominee for Hyam until Hyam could take legal ownership of the land using the PMA configuration the lawyer was paid $5k to set up - which is no longer possible, but was in 2005 (older residents please chime in).

In conclusion: "Prosecutors in Bali are waiting for formal copies of the Supreme Court’s decision that will allow authorities to bering the lawyer to prison to serve his sentence."

so where is the land located then, for 1,3 juta m2, must be on sunset road then, hahhahahaa
and where the buyer found out it was only wurth 800k /m2, at tax office? hahahahhaha omggg you have no idea how it works here
i had once a 2 hectare land, means 20000 m2, payed tax for the land wurth a m2 18000 rupiah, so what are you talking about, sold out for 70 juta / are
means i am illegal cuzz i ask to much? omggggg come on, i can ask what i want for my property, there is NO ruling to court you because you asked to much

omg............. any one here who has more knowledge of property here in Bali, then please confirm, this guy is putting new investors on wrong trail and will cost them alot of money.

i thought we here to HELP echother, not to get RIP off by some member what has no idea he talking about

it is quite simple, he LOST his money, cuzz was stupid enough to think he could own the land, and used a mallifide notary for it to arrange the illegal documents

simple as that,

 

[dino]

5 posts...attempting to sell property..condemning a well respected member for something he never said......purposely demeaning everyone alse as idiots or stupid...

Any moderation needed?

if you refere to me, i NOT selling anything, becouse i am HONEST, and not try to awake the illusion that foreighners can buy any property here, like some others here try to do.

Dont fall for it foreighners, you can NOT own any property here, that is a fact, no matter what others mention, or offer you, it is all illegal and you lose all your money

 

[Markit]

Gee Dino thanks so much for coming out of your cage to join the discussion - was it cage cleaning day?

Now take your keyboard and coat it in the spiciest sambal you can find an shove it right the way up there where the sun doesn't shine so you can taste those chilies on the back of your tongue.

If the forum needs another complete idiot we know where to find you.

 

[davita]

You should feel good Markit.....

Dino erroneously infers you do NOT know that foreigners cannot buy Hak Milik and yet, in post #11, he says..."every idiot know it is NOT possible to own property in Indonesia (that includes also Bali, maybe you didnt know that)

By his own words only the rest of us, well aware of RI's Agrarian Laws, are idiots! So, by contrast, you must be a genious!:icon_eek:

Also, he appears to be contradictory....unless he is offering his land free.:greedy_dollars:

note post #8 where he says.....
"so if you looking for land as foreigher, drop a line to me, i have several location, and rental time 30 years, so enough for your enjoy/business you can use it for 30 years."

and his reply post #14...
"if you refere to me, i NOT selling anything, becouse i am HONEST,"

 

[Braveheart_shaped_box]

So just to clarify

"so if you looking for land as foreigher, drop a line to me, i have several location, and rental time 30 years, so enough for your enjoy/business you can use it for 30 years."

but

"if you refere to me, i NOT selling anything, becouse i am HONEST"

and us foreigher can't tell the difference becouse we are all idiots pffffffffffffffffffffftttt

 

[spicyayam]

I think everyone here knows foreigners can't own freehold property here and anyone who goes down the nominee path knows the risks involved. If however someone wants to use a nominee then should at least make the agreement they have as strong as possible. I don't believe just because a foreigner is involved they will instantly lose in a court. A foreigner can get their name on the certificate (Hak Tanggungan) not as owner, but as lender of the money, just like a bank would. It would then be illegal for the nominee to sell without the foreigner's permission.

Don't just believe foreigners have ownership problems here. Locals can easily run into the same problem if the notary handling the transaction doesn't do their job. I have heard of properties having like five certificates all to different owners. Notaries are supposed to act independently between the buyer and seller, but of course it doesn't always happen. Getting independent legal help is one way to put yourself in a stronger position.

At least you might be better off than these unlucky folks in Thailand: Eviction threat for Australians who put life savings into Thai dream homes

 

[dino]

You should feel good Markit.....

Dino erroneously infers you do NOT know that foreigners cannot buy Hak Milik and yet, in post #11, he says..."every idiot know it is NOT possible to own property in Indonesia (that includes also Bali, maybe you didnt know that)

By his own words only the rest of us, well aware of RI's Agrarian Laws, are idiots! So, by contrast, you must be a genious!:icon_eek:

Also, he appears to be contradictory....unless he is offering his land free.:greedy_dollars:

note post #8 where he says.....
"so if you looking for land as foreigher, drop a line to me, i have several location, and rental time 30 years, so enough for your enjoy/business you can use it for 30 years."

and his reply post #14...
"if you refere to me, i NOT selling anything, becouse i am HONEST,"

seems you not know the different between SELL and RENT, now we coming somewhere, so the issue meaning in the tread is actually, ' foreigner RENTAL property appears to be LEGAL'

read first carefully what i did post, before you reply, it says RENTAL time is 30 years, NOT SELLING

i can understand the most foreighners get in trouble and loosing money, if they follow your ADVICE here.

 

[dino]

I think everyone here knows foreigners can't own freehold property here and anyone who goes down the nominee path knows the risks involved.

unfortunally not every one knows, MR Markit post a thread what give the idea it is LEGAL to OWN property as FOREIGHNER

as i said before, maybe he just dont know, kasihan anda Markit

but in future, dont post this unthruth threads, maybe some people gone believe you

heart on the street etc.... is all bull****, post facts with real information, and clearly thread