gilbert de jong

Active Member
Jan 20, 2009
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Panji, Singaraja.
yeah..don't know about the percentage though, but even on a normal savings/checking account the bank deduct taxes..

maybe I already said it before, but LPD banks are taxfree:icon_mrgreen:
 

ianmcgarry

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Jun 1, 2011
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Guys, if any bank is offering you that sort of interest, I would be very concerned indeed. I wouldn't put 10 bucks in it. The question you need to ask is why are they offering such a high interest rate? Because they need people to put money into their bank because they are broke. They are offering these rates because they are DESPERATE for your money. Compare the interest on savings to the interest on loans. They take your savings so they can lend the money out. They need to cover the interest they pay you, and all their overheads - staff, buildings etc and make a profit with the interest on the loans. If the loan rate isn't higher than the savings rate, something is very wrong indeed. You need to find out how much, if any, of your money is guaranteed in the event that the bank goes bust. I'd stay well clear. It sounds very risky to me, especially if there are people around who have been unable to get their money back out.

If you are looking to just put some money aside, use a reputable Indonesian bank or one of the well known international ones. If you are looking to save for a pension or invest properly, you should see a Financial Advisor, make your investment offshore, get an offshore bank account and then you will make those sort of returns. Your money will be tied up for an initial period. A proper Financial Advisor will make sure this is around 5 months, at which point you will have free access to your money. You will not pay tax on your profits, your money will be guaranteed to at least 90% and you will be dealing with some of the largest and most reputable banks and investment companies in the world. This is suitable for people looking to save around $1,000 + per month or invest a lump sum of over around $50,000.
 

gilbert de jong

Active Member
Jan 20, 2009
3,198
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Panji, Singaraja.
Guys, if any bank is offering you that sort of interest, I would be very concerned indeed. I wouldn't put 10 bucks in it. The question you need to ask is why are they offering such a high interest rate? Because they need people to put money into their bank because they are broke. They are offering these rates because they are DESPERATE for your money. Compare the interest on savings to the interest on loans. They take your savings so they can lend the money out. They need to cover the interest they pay you, and all their overheads - staff, buildings etc and make a profit with the interest on the loans. If the loan rate isn't higher than the savings rate, something is very wrong indeed. You need to find out how much, if any, of your money is guaranteed in the event that the bank goes bust. I'd stay well clear. It sounds very risky to me, especially if there are people around who have been unable to get their money back out.

If you are looking to just put some money aside, use a reputable Indonesian bank or one of the well known international ones. If you are looking to save for a pension or invest properly, you should see a Financial Advisor, make your investment offshore, get an offshore bank account and then you will make those sort of returns. Your money will be tied up for an initial period. A proper Financial Advisor will make sure this is around 5 months, at which point you will have free access to your money. You will not pay tax on your profits, your money will be guaranteed to at least 90% and you will be dealing with some of the largest and most reputable banks and investment companies in the world. This is suitable for people looking to save around $1,000 + per month or invest a lump sum of over around $50,000.

Are you a banker/financial planner? if yes, how much will you make me (in one year) if I give you USD 100K to play the markets with ?
 

ianmcgarry

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Jun 1, 2011
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Are you a banker/financial planner? if yes, how much will you make me (in one year) if I give you USD 100K to play the markets with ?

Hi Gilbert,
Yeah, I am a Financial Advisor with the biggest ex-pat company in Indonesia. If you gave me $100K, I wouldn't play on the markets with it either - that would expose your money to serious risk. What we do is use International Managed Funds. This spreads your investment across various markets and asset classes. Each fund operates in a specific area, e.g. emerging market equities, or blue chip or commodities or precious metals. Within each fund, specialised managers invest in various stocks and equities. Fund managers really know their stuff and monitor all of the stocks constantly. We choose between 7 and 10 funds and then monitor their performance and can switch the funds over the life of the investment. What it basically means is that rather than invest all of your money in one area or one type of assett or a small number of companies, where if that company or market fails, you loose money, we spread the risk over many of the best companies, assetts and areas of the world, and switch the investment to a different fund if the returns aren't what we'd expect. This reduces your risk significantly and allows us to target your investment in the areas which are bringing the best returns. It has the distinct advantage of having a number of professional investment specialists looking after your money and several layers of monitoring. We also never hold your money. It goes to one of the offshore platforms directly, where they hold it, the principal is underwritten by a separate bank and covered by a minimum 90% guarantee by the UK government. We monitor constantly, report on performance monthly and update all of our clients personally at least 3 monthly. I know you want me to put a figure on it, but it's not that simple. We can choose from any investment product in the world. Those choices are determined by the clients attitude towards risk, their objectives and the returns they want to make. The higher the risk, the better the return. I know it's a bit complicated, but the bottom line is that we do these things because they are the safest and most effective way to make our clients money, keep their money safe and take advantage of tax free status and the compounding of interest. The whole process is called Modern Portfolio Theory and it works very well indeed.
I'm not looking atfer Bali at the moment, but one of my colleagues is in Bali for the whole month of June. If you want to hear more about what we do, I'll arrange for him to buy you a coffee and have a chat with you about it.
Cheers, Ian
 

mugwump

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2011
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seattle pekutatan
Fiancial advisor?

Hi Gilbert,
Yeah, I am a Financial Advisor with the biggest ex-pat company in Indonesia. If you gave me $100K, I wouldn't play on the markets with it either - that would expose your money to serious risk. What we do is use International Managed Funds. This spreads your investment across various markets and asset classes. Each fund operates in a specific area, e.g. emerging market equities, or blue chip or commodities or precious metals. Within each fund, specialised managers invest in various stocks and equities. Fund managers really know their stuff and monitor all of the stocks constantly. We choose between 7 and 10 funds and then monitor their performance and can switch the funds over the life of the investment. What it basically means is that rather than invest all of your money in one area or one type of assett or a small number of companies, where if that company or market fails, you loose money, we spread the risk over many of the best companies, assetts and areas of the world, and switch the investment to a different fund if the returns aren't what we'd expect. This reduces your risk significantly and allows us to target your investment in the areas which are bringing the best returns. It has the distinct advantage of having a number of professional investment specialists looking after your money and several layers of monitoring. We also never hold your money. It goes to one of the offshore platforms directly, where they hold it, the principal is underwritten by a separate bank and covered by a minimum 90% guarantee by the UK government. We monitor constantly, report on performance monthly and update all of our clients personally at least 3 monthly. I know you want me to put a figure on it, but it's not that simple. We can choose from any investment product in the world. Those choices are determined by the clients attitude towards risk, their objectives and the returns they want to make. The higher the risk, the better the return. I know it's a bit complicated, but the bottom line is that we do these things because they are the safest and most effective way to make our clients money, keep their money safe and take advantage of tax free status and the compounding of interest. The whole process is called Modern Portfolio Theory and it works very well indeed.
I'm not looking atfer Bali at the moment, but one of my colleagues is in Bali for the whole month of June. If you want to hear more about what we do, I'll arrange for him to buy you a coffee and have a chat with you about it.
Cheers, Ian

Are you talking about open end mutual funds? Are you licensed as a financial advisor, and if so where? Do you have a designation such as CFP or ChFC?
Don't mean to seem accusatory, just curious.
 

ianmcgarry

New Member
Jun 1, 2011
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Are you talking about open end mutual funds? Are you licensed as a financial advisor, and if so where? Do you have a designation such as CFP or ChFC?
Don't mean to seem accusatory, just curious.

Yes, UK and CII and SII 2008. That gives me the CFP. They've recently changed the qualification standards in the UK, so I'm going to be working towards a new qualification the Diploma in Regulated Financial Planning over the next year or so.
 
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ianmcgarry

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Jun 1, 2011
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Just to clarify that a wee bit, I'm approved as Fit and Proper by the FSA in the UK, but not currently registered there as you have to be employed by a UK company and practising in the UK for that. IFAs are not regulated in Indonesia the same way they are in the UK, US or Aus and are not required to register. You are right to ask, because not all those purporting to be IFAs in Indonesia are properly qualified or experienced and you should absolutely check this out and also the company that they work for.
 

Tiggy

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May 6, 2011
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Sounds interesting iamcmgarry but due to my consitant CRAP returns in canadian mutual funds I am very wary. To the degree of prefering unsecured investments in local indo banks over what the 'big boys' got me over the last 20 years.

It goes to one of the offshore platforms directly, where they hold it, the principal is underwritten by a separate bank and covered by a minimum 90% guarantee by the UK government
and that is only if it performs right? I suppose it cannot magically dissapear, but having lost a huge amount in mutual funds over the years I have determined that the investment is only as good as the markets and the advisor you have.

My mix of stable and risk investments netted me a loss of .... over the years- ok I might cry so I wont talk about it. I do come from a family of mutual funds experts (Investors Group millionares club x20) so I have really wanted to belive, but the proof was not in the pudding.

I dont see anything wrong with putting say 10K into a bank that may give those returns (and hopefully gilbert has proven some stability with his relationship with them). Risk versus reward. Its all down if you can afford the loss if it happens.

As always speak to your local bloke. My mates tell me anything over 15% needs some looking into.

BTW, the local indo secure banks give a hell of a lot less interest than my non secured / locked in commonwealth bank at 7%. Why would you want to sink your money there unless you were concerned about our - aussie - impending doom (recession).

Sorry to be sceptical but 20th time bitten, weeeee bit shy. BTW from my understanding the local banks are making a significant % more in interest from loan than paying out. The example I gave prior was he pays 15% on a VERY secured property WELL above the loan amount. I can imagine that interest rates on less secure loans are a heap more. Also, from light research (peer reviewed journals), looks like few in bali default on loans fully, and tend to continue to pay the monthly costs, leading to constant income to the banks.

Sorry for the crap typing, my main computer died and im stuck on a keyboard inhabited by the devil.
 

ianmcgarry

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Jun 1, 2011
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Yeah Tiggy, You are right. The investment is only as good as your advisor. It is perfectly possible to lose money where investments are not properly managed. That's why a good IFA will split the investment across 7 - 10 different managed funds and then across different asset classes. We still made our clients good returns during the recession using this method. For example when equities were low recently, certain commodities and precious metals were at record highs. We do everything possible to minimise risk and maximise returns. When you had all of your investment in the one fund, your risk was greatly multiplied. You had no way to switch funds and you were totally exposed to the performance of one market. The equity funds we use are all blue chip, so you're talking about the Apples, Microsofts, Coca Colas and Walmarts of the world. There are also many other options where the return is guaranteed for the more cautious investor, such as gilts and bonds which are absolutely safe. Your risk there would be the complete collapse of a major economy such as the US or UK. Not likely. It can be a dangerous business if an individual is not properly advised, but a very rewarding one when they are. It's well worth another look.
 

Tiggy

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May 6, 2011
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I am not discounting mutal funds investments the whole, just giving my perspective and experience.

100% agree on having a clued in advisor. Perhaps we can have a chat one day, always looking for a smart investment guy who isn't smoke and mirrors. For whatever reason my family members (advisors and co-advisors) decided to lose us lots of money :icon_evil:. Kudos to grandma who went with her gut on things but still lost her panties when that GFC thing hit.

I suppose the only thing I take great issue against is saying to invest high risk money in IMB's is bad. I was given estimated returns ofr 30-40% in certain sectors (mutual funds, global, IT, health etc) that were supposed to perform well but did not. Lost my money and then some...

So to those that consider investing in IMB's - whats the harm as long as they understand the risks. With the global economy in such flux (other than china) what is the harm in investing your volitile capital in something with a reasonable risk return ratio?

Blue chips have never done me any good other than make the directors rich hehe. You guys on the other hand always do well with commissions. Or does your business model have some other way of funding you.

BTW my posts are not a personal attack on you mate, just an opinion on the relative safety of mutual fund investments.
 

gilbert de jong

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Jan 20, 2009
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Panji, Singaraja.
Go for it Gilbert, you will sleep better, not having so much cash stuff in your mattress:icon_mrgreen:.

I sleep just fine :icon_biggrin:
but with all respect to ian, it's too complicated for a simple brain as mine :icon_wink:.. and hard time to pursue the actual 'dickhead' who screwed me out of my money. If it would go wrong...another reason not to go international, might be 'funny money', know what I mean?


6 accounts at 6 different banks, each at 100jt, giving 24% each per year. so that would be 6 x 24 = 144jt. Now if one would go under, I would not lose 100jt (in theory yeas ofcourse), but my yearly profit would still be 44jt or a little over 7% in total.

Haa can't wait to stuff my next pillow:icon_wink:, just joking.
 

ianmcgarry

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Jun 1, 2011
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I'm not saying that they are bad. I am saying that I personally wouldn't put 10 bucks in them or recommend that anyone esle did, because my professional opinion is that the risk is too great. That doesn't mean that people won't make money on it. They will, but equally, they could wake up one morning and it's gone. To my mind it's like the same way some people will make money on the 3.45 at Cheltenham.

The modern funds and investments I'm talking about are good investments, with minimised risk and maximised returns. They have consistently performed well in all market conditions and I have no reason to believe that they will not continue to do so.

Yeah, There are some chancers in this business. A minority, but they do exist. Anyone promising 40% returns needs to start telling the truth. There are commission payments involved. Yes. The chancers will take the short term view and do what they can to up their short term earnings at their client's expense. Reputable advisors will take the long term view and do what is best for their client, not themselves. This way they have a happy client who they can work with for the long term, who will come back to them and who will recommend them to their clients and friends and help them build their reputation and their business. I take the long term view.
 

spicyayam

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Jan 12, 2009
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I just finished reading the book "No one would listen", written by the guy who first reported Bernie Madoff to the SEC. It is quite an amazing story, how he could get away with the fraud for so long. Reading the book made me think about this thread, and it does have to make you wonder how they are gettng these kinds of returns.
 

ianmcgarry

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Jun 1, 2011
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That's the Gamble Gilbert. What if 2 go down?

As for my way, it's very easy to find the people who have your money. Google 'Assicurazioni Generali'. They are number 19 in the Global 500 list of the world's biggest companies and the main offshore investment platform. They don't get there by losing people money.

It's not really that complicated either - These investments have minimal risk, maximised returns, involve dealing with some of the best companies in the world, aren't liable for tax, protected by the UK government, regulated, supervised, managed by the best experts in the world, and are, in my opinion, the best place to keep and grow your money. I recommend them 100%.
 

gilbert de jong

Active Member
Jan 20, 2009
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Panji, Singaraja.
like spicy said, right of the bat I was thinking bad-off, ehm madoff :icon_wink:
He (his company) didn't get where he was either for nothing, nor where he is now for that matter:icon_lol:.....but he's better of then good old jimmy hoffa :icon_wink:
best company's in the world, ain't no guarantee either...wasn't there just a while back a global economical meltdown because one of those best/biggest company's was in over their head :icon_wink:
If I am not mistaken that was also a assicurazioni company :icon_mrgreen:

two in one year? nah, no way...ofcourse never say never, so let's just say the chances of that happening is nihil. But if it would happen, I would have to find a bridge high enough for a little "Calvi" justice. (Roberto Calvi_Banco Ambrosiano):icon_lol:
 

ianmcgarry

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Jun 1, 2011
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Gilbert, If you go with that logic, no-one would ever have a mortgage again (Freddie Mac, Fannie May), or put any money in any bank (Northern Rock, Merrill Lynch) either. Or, for that matter fly in a plane, drive a car or cross the road or visit Greece. Seriously, check out Generali. Strong, stable, reputable, profitable.

The only reason a bank is offering these sort of rates is because it needs the money. It is unsustainable economically. All I can say is, that throughout the world, offering a susbstantially inflated savings rate is a strong signal that a bank is just not financially secure. Basic point, why would they want to offer savers 20% when 7% would be seen as fantastic at the moment? - It could just be generousity, but I really doubt it - it doesn't make sense.

Banks should hold at least 8% of capital as a resverve. Most hold back more and the requirement is being increased in the UK and US. I found a document which says the minimum holding for local sharia banks in Indonesia is also a minimum 8%. I recommend that you ask your bank exactly what percentage of its capital is held as a reserve and are your savings underwritten by the government of Indonesia should the bank go under? In almost all developed regulated economies, the government taxes all financial services providers to set up a fund to underwrite savings. In the UK its called the FSCS (Financial Services Compansation Scheme) and it guarantees savings up to 85,000 pounds. If a bank goes under, this amount is safe for each UK saver. Good job if you were with Northern Rock. I can find no information about a similar guarantee in Indonesia. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It might, but you'll need to ask the bank. I wish you luck with it mate and I hope it works out for you.

Final point - the reason that professional Financial Advisors recommend the investment platforms we recommend is that we know that these are the best way available, in the world, the both protect our clients investments and make their money grow, so that our clients can meet their goals, whether that is, making their money work harder to increase their wealth, making sure they can afford to have their children properly educated or having sufficient money to support themselves when they are older. This, along with making sure that people are properly insured with regards to health and life, is what we do. We do it to the best of our professional ability. Why would we do anything else? There is nothing to be gained by giving bad advice, poor service and behaving dishonestly - just ask Bernie. Equally, there are many many millions of people ensuring their security by taking advantage of professional advice and consistently performing investments, which, while all of these institutions were going bust in the recession, kept on making their investors money.
 

mat

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Dec 18, 2008
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Gilbert,The only reason a bank is offering these sort of rates is because it needs the money. It is unsustainable economically. All I can say is, that throughout the world, offering a susbstantially inflated savings rate is a strong signal that a bank is just not financially secure. Basic point, why would they want to offer savers 20% when 7% would be seen as fantastic at the moment? - It could just be generousity, but I really doubt it - it doesn't make sense.

These village banks lend out at around 35% per annum. There is a big demand for their services to pay for ceremonies school and doctors. Many of the borrowers will be paying back for many years [sometimes life] . As long as the culture of paying back 'what you owe' doesn't change then these banks will be safe.
 

ianmcgarry

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Jun 1, 2011
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Mat, Thanks for that. Poor people. That's a terrible rate to have to pay for a loan. I take it their options are limited?