Banjar Fees, advice please

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daniel1111

New Member
Hello everyone, Im new to this forum and would kindly ask you for some advice.
I have recently moved in my house (Banjar Dawas in Canggu) and today received a letter from the Banjar (ADAT) about a fee levied. It is set to 2% of the land value.
Now, since I have made some experiences on Bali already, lived here for a couple of years, but this being my first own house, I have some questions. First of all it stinks like being corruption. Is there any law (theoretically), which allows them to levy a fee on the land? The amount I am asked to pay is 8jt. However, it explicitly states in the letter that it is being negotiable. That again sounds very suspicious. I have not yet meet the Head of Banjar to discuss this matter, but maybe someone made experiences in this area already?
I will ask my Balinese neighbors, who also just moved in, what they are asked to pay. As far as I know from other regions, mostly this fee amounts to a few hundred kilos of cash rice. :icon_rolleyes:
Anyways, I am fine with the idea of giving some contribution, but to be honest the way they ask for it, which does not even seem to have any legal basis is really pissing me off. What would be a reasonable amount to contribute or pay? I was thinking of something around 2 to 3 million.

I would be very happy about some advice.

Regards

Daniel
 
Yes, Daniel, the amount, at first glance does sound quite high but we don’t have enough information to say. It is too late now but I keep beating this drum. It is important to have a meeting with the banjar BEFORE buying property and since you are not a new resident of Bali I’m surprised you didn’t think of this. In your home country before buying property you would want to know the local annual rates. Why would here be any different? In addition to the practicality of knowing the costs of belonging to a community there is the very important consideration of meeting your neighbours or at the very least the head of the banjar and it isn’t too late to do this. Rather than take an adversarial me-vs-them approach why not have a friendly meeting with your village leader. Ask him how they set their rates. Ask him if he has children. Ask him where he lives. Ask him about the village and what goes on there. Ask about their ceremonies. Talk to the other people in the meeting, and there will be more because Bali does things communally. Relax and drink the tea they will offer with a smile. In other words show that you want to genuinely be a part of the village. Take a Balinese friend who can translate for you if need be. This is an eastern culture and community is important above everything else except family. And if you don’t want to be a part of the village, well, there are many western countries you can try where individuality isn’t seen as strange.
 
Hi, thank you for the answer. Well, first of all, I had two meetings already with the head of Banjar before (I might have expressed myself a bit wrong before, meaning, I havent met him to discuss about this particular matter). However no word was ever spoken about this 2% rule, which makes me now quiet upset. Especially due to the fact, that I already contributed to the Banjar during the construction phase by paying for fixing the road (It was not fixed anyways, so it obviously went into someones pocket). Considering this, again, I only can say I am feeling ripped off. Saying that, I tried the nice way, and thats the thankfulness I am getting in return? If ur asking why I would not be fine with paying such a fee, but paying it in any other country, then it is for the simple reason, that there is such strange thing called "law" Since there doesnt seem to be any of that, I am not comfortable with the idea of paying again into the head of villages pocket.
 
daniel1111 said:
Hi, thank you for the answer. Well, first of all, I had two meetings already with the head of Banjar before (I might have expressed myself a bit wrong before, meaning, I havent met him to discuss about this particular matter). However no word was ever spoken about this 2% rule, which makes me now quiet upset. Especially due to the fact, that I already contributed to the Banjar during the construction phase by paying for fixing the road (It was not fixed anyways, so it obviously went into someones pocket). Considering this, again, I only can say I am feeling ripped off. Saying that, I tried the nice way, and thats the thankfulness I am getting in return? If ur asking why I would not be fine with paying such a fee, but paying it in any other country, then it is for the simple reason, that there is such strange thing called "law" Since there doesnt seem to be any of that, I am not comfortable with the idea of paying again into the head of villages pocket.
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That clears up some of your situation and I can see why you think you’re not being treated fairly. I don’t know about the legal status of paying fees to the local banjar but I’ve never heard of a property that is exempt from it in Bali or anywhere else I’ve ever lived. Be sure to always get a receipt with description for any payment made to anyone in your banjar and don’t be shy about letting the people in your village know what you’ve paid for and how much.

Before we built at the property we’re now living in, but after purchasing the property, a guy, Made, came to us and said he wanted 7 juta for road access so we started talking to people about his request. Telling the lokal people what was going on made all the difference. It turned out that Made was the brother of our village leader and it was an embarrassment to everyone that he was caught asking us for money for property he didn’t own. His brother, the head of our village said, “Don’t pay my brother any money.”

We are fortunate that our village leader and most of the people in our village want to do what is right. That may not be the situation in your village. Ask some of the lokals in your village how much they pay to the banjar.

I don’t have any better advice. Maybe others will and I sure do wish you luck, not only with the amount of money but also in your relationship with your village. There are stories I’ve heard and stories on this forum of people who end up in nightmarish situations when the people of the village don’t like them or want them there.
 
Hi, thank you again for your answer. It is nice to hear that at least some people on Bali still have a sense of moral. I will definitely talk to my neighbors and discuss with them what they were asked to pay.
It is a kinda split situation in the village, as I noticed during the construction period, that some people here were very friendly, open and helpful (also cause I brought them some business, by having some of their people work on my construction side), while others were quiet reserved, if not to say negative.
Yea anyways, you are right, I am not feeling like being treated fairly having contributed to the banjar directly by paying road fixes and indirectly by employing their people. Oh well, seems mentality of the locals here is not what it used to be. All about the money.
 
going back to your original post..are we talking here about the Banjar Adat or Kepala Desa/Kantor kepala Desa?
to whom did you pay for fixing the road?
 
if it was to the ADAT, sorry for my language but then you got screwed,
the Adat is not in charge of any roadconstructions..
even the kotong rojong ("volunteers" from the village) who work fixing the road, is handled by the kepala desa or klian dusun (head of small desa..to small to be called desa and therefor gets called Banjar XXX or Banjar Dinas XXX)
you ask about law, since you've been on the island for a couple of years you might know about the regional 'laws', meaning the ADAT wich differs from desa to desa.
so it might well be that in your desa/banjar there is such a ADAT-law that states 2% of landvalue will be collected from owners yearly, here in the Banjar I live there is no such thing..but that doesn't mean that a couple of desa over people get a standard yearly contributionfee to be paid.

The Adat guys, usually the pecalang comes by for donations with nyepi/galungan&kuningan etcetc...

When entering a village like yours start building etcetc, you yourself have unwillingly created a positive and a negative side towards you.."some got business" meaning some didn't, some worked on the construction, some didn't..hence the some are positive and some are negative..
might be that one of the negatives is a close relative of the kepala Adat, and via them trying to 'milk' you now.
I am not trying to break your balls in anyway, but you so you feel treated unfair..my bet is that some of the locals around you feel exactly the same.

IMHO, locals are not all about the money...the are more about equality, maybe that is a hindu thing.
Personal experience about sub-legal fee's : the Subak came by a couple of years ago, to ask for money for the irrigation to my land and asked for 10jt but was negotiable..alot of blablabla and smoking kreteks drinking coffee bali..I gave him 2jt. Still comes around so now and then, and we have a smoke and drink and each and every time he tells me "remember dulu2 when we talked for the first time? Honestly I didn't like you then, I always answer I didn't like you then too " he starts grinning and smiling but he never asked for money again...moral of the story, what you don't like know (paying) might pave a road for a good friendship..
 
I have never been asked to pay any fee's by banjar or desa.Only now and then the klian comes and askes for a voluntary contribution for new gamelan uniforms or things like that.
 
Where I live things are quite well regulated. There is a monthly IURAN imposed by the Banjar on all non Banjar members living within its bounds. The treasurer used to come round every months with a couple of the pecalangs. I would pay the fee and they would write it in my subscription card which I have.

After the first few months I got fed up with this so I told them that I would only pay annually - 12 payments in one go. There was a lot of humming and harring but finally they said OK.

So now I pay them (at the special "bule" rate of Rp.20,000 per month - WNI pay just Rp.10,000) Rp.240,000 annually each Jan or Feb (or when ever they remember to come and collect it and give me a new yearly card.

Other than that I just give the youth club boys a sub before Nyepi to help pay for their Ogoh-ogoh. They go round the village collecting and hand out letters from the Kelian to prove that it's OK to be asking for cash.

And that's it.
 
We have an American neighbour who thinks he is treated unfair as well, he has to pay double "rice fees" than us and he calls the Klian the Head Thief, he takes the local kids soccer balls when they come over his wall and wont give them back, he pushed his car past a locals car who was blocking the road and screamed at him to get his car off the public road, the local told him he owned the road and came round to threaten him, the American eventually backed down. One of our dogs chased a chicken into his driveway and he screamed that the locals would kill our dog, 2 old ladies laughed and told me don't worry just pay 20,000IDR to the owner of the chicken if your dog kills it and you can have chicken for dinner.

His Indonesian wife is too scared to leave her home and yesterday the Klian dropped his IMB final paperwork back into his home and said he wouldn't sign anything else without 4million. (they are having the IMB changed into his wifes name).

We have a different story to the American, we live opposite him and our houses are of similar value. When we first arrived to look over our land we dropped in and introduced ourselves to the Klian who was having his new house blessed, we stayed for the blessing, chatted with the wife, looked over their house, asked about their children, work etc and then excused ourselves, 1 hour of our time. The Klian invited the American who ignored him and went in behind his wall of his house and didn't come out.

We dropped in on the Klian many times while building and discussed rubbish removal, water issues, what we could and couldn't do. We got to know our Muslim neighbours across the road who lent us electricity for free (we offered money but they refused saying "we are neighbours, this is what we do") the whole time we were building. Thier their kids yell out to the American in English "F*&ing Bule, with us they say hello and follow us on our walks fascinated by our dogs although they are not allowed to like them (their words, not ours). When we first moved in we got a water truck and filled our 2000 litre tank and then filled our Muslim neighbours tank while they were at work as a surprise, it was the least we could do.

95% rest of the neighbours are Hindu (actually why we chose the area), and we stopped to chat with them all the time. Before we moved in we helped the local boys build soccer goal posts and bought them a large net so that the ball wouldn't go into the American neighbours house anymore.

Now that we have moved in (house not yet finished but we are in)hubby has had regular meetings with the Klian (well, just coffee and a chat actually) and the community want to build a new kindergarten which we will contribute to, just like the rest of the locals that we have chatted to about it.

We had bamboo scaffolding and no idea where to put it when it came down but an old man gratefully accepted payment to take it down and it is now in his loungeroom stacked to the ceiling. He also helped us clean up the land next door where the builders had thrown their rubbush and he didn't want payment, he just said "we are community".

We walk our 3 dogs every night and chat with the locals and our dogs play with theirs, sometimes is dark before we get home as you get stopped by everyone to chat.

The Klian is very helpful and his wife will organise our house blessing when our house is finished. We actually haven't paid any fees or for anything yet (apart form 200,000IDR for the soccor net), he said when the house is finished as understands we need the money to finish it (his words). Hubby dropped in there for coffee yesterday and the Klian told him he was holding his tenant's (a Czech guy) passport as he owed him 25 million in rent, so he let the Klian go on about that for a while and he left, the Czech guys is also a neighbour and holds parties with live bands and a microphone with speakers till 5am, so I am happy to hear the Klian is not happy with him either.

Note, there may be one difference as well, we speak Balinese and when we get home from work I am wearing a Balinese sarong and we just bought a new car and had it blessed and we've had a lot of ceremonies in the past month so we often get home in Balinese attire so this may make even more of a difference as the Klian often comments that his job here is to look after his community, I guess we are now gratefully part of this community and unfortunately the American and Czech are not so may feel "unfairly treated".

It think if Gilbert says that in the beginning they didn't like each other, you still have a chance to build a relationship, just start again, go with the advise others have given and start acting like part of the community. You don't have to employ anyone to do that, treat them like community. Don't start thinking about 'laws' when you are talking about money in a Balinese community and it will work out fine I am sure.
 
Nice post! I see the kinds of people you mentioned in your post, everyone is to blame except for themselves.
 
Georgie said:
We have an American neighbour who thinks he is treated unfair as well.....................
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What an excellent situation you've got into! Well done, I hope you have a great time in your house (and find a way to switch off your Czech neighbours parties!).

As for the American ............................... I think the local kids you refer to have him exactly right. The easiest way I found to "fit in", as far as one is ever going to being a foreigner, is to speak to everyone, especially one's nearest neighbours and for that one has to be able to speak Indonesian, or even better yet, Balinese. I'm always amazed at folks who go and live in a foreign country but refuse to learn the language and then moan they they have no local friends and treated as outsiders. I certainly congratulate you on speaking Balinese! It's beyond me - sing bisa!
 
Georgie your article should be standard reading for everyone thinking of living here.

I run into so many people that make the cardinal mistake of thinking they're the kings of creation here but don't seem to realize that they have landed in another world that doesn't play by American, European or Australian rules.

The standard lament is "why don't these people understand why I'm upset?" when they've completely missed the point that they've upset the people who own this place.

I particularly love those expat get-togethers where they all sit around complaining how stupid or lazy the Balinese are but don't like "home" anymore cause it's full of lazy Pakistanis, Indians, Turks, Mexicans, Algerians, etc.

Apparently there's this huge island floating in the middle of the Pacific made entirely of used condoms, plastic bottles, used nappies and lost left had gloves.

I wish they would go live there.
 
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