Property with mixed marriage

[Fred2]

Article 21

(1) Only Indonesian citizens can have a hak milik.
Easy!!!!
(2) The Government is to determine which corporate bodies can have a hak milik and the conditions thereof.

(3) A foreigner who, following the entry into force of this Act, acquires a hak milik by way of inheritance without a will or by way of joint ownership of property resulting from marriage and an Indonesian citizen holding a hak milik who, following the entry into force of this Act, loses Indonesian citizenship is obliged to relinquish that right within one year following the date the hak milik is acquired in the case of the former or following the date upon which Indonesian citizenship is lost in the case of the latter. If following the expiry of the said timr periods, the right is not relinquished, then the siad right is nullified for the sake of law and the land falls to the State with the proviso that the rights of other parties which encumber the lands remain in existence.
Ok if you inherit property you have 1 year to dispose of the property!!!!!
(4) As long as one with Indonesian citizenship concurrently holds foreign citizenship, he/she cannot have land with the status of a hak milik, and to him/her the provision as meant in paragraph 3 of this article shall apply.
When you marry everything is 50/50 therefor one of you has foreign citizenship so go back to (3).
To over come this you can have a simple pre-nup, saying your Indonesia spouse own 100% of !!!!!
The pre-nup is registered by your notary (you just can't back date)
Post nup are not legal
If you buy land & your wife's KTP has married on it, then both husband & wife must sign purchase or sale documents as married means 50/50.
Some people do not register there overseas marriage because there wife's KTP is not changed to married, but this can cause more problems.
As i said in the wedding post the easiest way, is to put the title in the in-law name then do the nominee system & then have it written the if your nominee dies you inherit the property giving 1 year to sort out your next step.
Remember if you can find a good:barbershop_quartet_ notary/lawyer you could get lucky!! anyone ?????

I hope you can understand this, as I'm a shit writer:icon_mrgreen:

 

[mat]

Hi everyone out there.
Has anyone heard of this law being enforced, with a mixed married couple with property in the wife's name and no pre-nup ?

 

[Fred2]

Hi fred2, have read the other thread, and I do understand what you're saying and how the 'law' works...
that being said, my wife does have some land in her name...not as an nominee but on the landcertificate, this was processed however before she got a
new kartu keluarga and ktp, wich now says married. The notary who handled it knew she was already married to me..
will go to him to ask if there are any problems that could arise...not so much as when/if the marriage seizes to exist, but rather as if we want to sell it to someone.

now let me pick your brain first or any other member that might know for that matter...
she, my wife can own a company right? so what if I just buy a pma based in Batam ,
with a small office on Bali in her name...possible or no? I mean legally possible? and then have whatever signed over to that company?
Thanks for any insights..

ooowww, and so sorry to averyone that this thread has taken an turn in a different direction...well, somehow it is still connected...anyways, sorryyyy y'all.

We have some properties that were purchased before we were married, the last house was purchase from a developer & as normal everyone leaves it in the developer's name so you don't pay tax. I wanted to put the title from developer to my wife name only, thats were I found out about the property law. So our last property is still in the developers name.
Don't worry if you wife already has the certificate, the only problem is if you piss someone off & they check, if you have a good notary they would sign off on a sale of the land.
I would check on the PMA, I think you can only lease land not buy. (2)
I would stick to a UD or CV company as they are a lot easier & you are not part of them.

 

[Fred2]

Hi everyone out there.
Has anyone heard of this law being enforced, with a mixed married couple with property in the wife's name and no pre-nup ?

I have never heard of any problems, if you wife owns property before you were married or she dosen't change her KTP I can see no problem,
and no one checks.
The problem with no pre-nup is you can not buy the land, the notary will want to see the pre-nup.

 

[spicyayam]

I have never heard of anyone having any problems either. Perhaps some notaries won't register the land, but others might not be so diligent in checking.

 

[gilbert de jong]

We have some properties that were purchased before we were married, the last house was purchase from a developer & as normal everyone leaves it in the developer's name so you don't pay tax. I wanted to put the title from developer to my wife name only, thats were I found out about the property law. So our last property is still in the developers name.
Don't worry if you wife already has the certificate, the only problem is if you piss someone off & they check, if you have a good notary they would sign off on a sale of the land.
I would check on the PMA, I think you can only lease land not buy. (2)
I would stick to a UD or CV company as they are a lot easier & you are not part of them.

thanks alot for the reply buddy....will check into to differentcompany's and if/how they can own land.
I figured a PMA is somewhat the same as in NL is a BV, no personal liability etcetc...
so I figured they (PMA) can hold several assets, assets wich has no direct line with the actual business side of the company..
my BV in holland owns for example a house (oh no, villa cuz it has a pool :icon_wink in Spain, but that house has totally nothing to do with the actual business, know what/how I mean?
anyways, will check into that, how that works in Indonesia.

no worries about the notary in case of a problem, since he processed it while he knew she was already married to me maybe...
he said we can just make a akte jual-beli and you/your wife have power of the land using the nominee set-up.

 

[mat]

I have never heard of any problems, if you wife owns property before you were married or she dosen't change her KTP I can see no problem,
and no one checks.
The problem with no pre-nup is you can not buy the land, the notary will want to see the pre-nup.

My wife has just bought land, the notary has not asked for a pre-nup. Her name is on the papers. The notary knows she is married to a 'tourist'. Still a little confused....but I do understand the law now. Thanks Fred2.

 

[gilbert de jong]

My wife has just bought land, the notary has not asked for a pre-nup. Her name is on the papers. The notary knows she is married to a 'tourist'. Still a little confused....but I do understand the law now. Thanks Fred2.

on the papers or on the sertifikat?

 

[Fred2]

My wife has just bought land, the notary has not asked for a pre-nup. Her name is on the papers. The notary knows she is married to a 'tourist'. Still a little confused....but I do understand the law now. Thanks Fred2.

Its good the some notaries are still behind the times, but then it brings up another problem.
In Indonesia when you wifes card say married, you would have to sign on the paper work, as you know everything is 50/50, so go & register the title, need copy of wifes KTP it say married need two signature & a copy of your KTP?. There are many things that could happen & your wife is holding a dodgy title?????
When you use the nominee system Made & his wife have to sign because 50/50 you can not have just one signature.

I understand that a westerner married to a Indonesian person should be able to own land & I hope the law will change.
I mean the idiot's in Jakarta that think that we are going to buy up all the free land:icon_evil:
There is already laws that limit the amount of land a private person can own:icon_rolleyes:.

 

[Fred2]

thanks alot for the reply buddy....will check into to differentcompany's and if/how they can own land.
I figured a PMA is somewhat the same as in NL is a BV, no personal liability etcetc...
so I figured they (PMA) can hold several assets, assets wich has no direct line with the actual business side of the company..
my BV in holland owns for example a house (oh no, villa cuz it has a pool :icon_wink in Spain, but that house has totally nothing to do with the actual business, know what/how I mean?
anyways, will check into that, how that works in Indonesia.

no worries about the notary in case of a problem, since he processed it while he knew she was already married to me maybe...
he said we can just make a akte jual-beli and you/your wife have power of the land using the nominee set-up.

I can not see any reason why you would need a PMA, Too much trouble for someone that is married to a local.
Even the big boys in Indonesia only use a PT, Has anyone see PMA on the front of any large company?????
If your wife opened a PT she could get you a work visa:highly_amused:
I would stick with a CV company cheap to set up & allows you to do most business activity here.

 

[Mark]

Greetings! I’m a new poster to the forum but have some experience on the subject of this thread. Fred2’s info is absolutely correct. My Indonesian wife and I were advised by a notary to enter into a prenup that was signed and registered with the authorities prior to our marriage, as she already owned property in her name. According to the notary, and separately verified by a lawyer in Jakarta, a prenup must be signed and registered before the marriage occurs, otherwise it is invalid. A prenup is also required for property purchases by the local spouse after marriage.

A sloppy notary may register a purchase even though the woman’s KTP indicates she is married, the husband is foreign and she does not produce a prenup, but the real issue will come at the time of sale. A smart purchaser/diligent notary would not complete the transaction and hand over the money if the seller of the property, say an Indonesian woman, was married according to her KTP but did not obtain her husband’s signature. If the husband is foreign, there will be a big problem unless there is a valid prenup. Mixed marriage friends of ours are currently experiencing this issue regarding the sale of their property and are facing the prospect of trying to obtain what will likely be an expensive ‘solution’.

A married woman whose marriage is not registered in Indonesia and whose KTP still says single can in all probability get around these issues, but her status may also result in other unintended consequences, e.g., any children of the marriage would be viewed by the Indo government as illegitimate and therefore will have difficulty getting an Indo passport or visa, and they will have no inheritance rights from the mother’s side on Indonesian based assets. The husband would also not have any inheritance rights from his wife, nor would he be able to take advantage of the new immigration law for spouses of Indonesian citizens, whenever it is finally implemented.

Cheers

 

[mat]

Checked it out.... partly.

Well I checked it out at the notary. Seems the problems only arise when/if you want to sell or someone dies. So I will be using my in-laws as nominees. To transfer a small property about 2.5 juta and a larger one 3.5 juta. Strange though still, as they say, If I sell to my in-laws [on paper] I don't sign the document but a receipt instead. So I will be asking "if I can sell to my in-laws by signing a piece of paper, why cant I do it at a later date if I want to sell ?" Still confused... Must ask them more questions. I will keep everyone up to date with the answers when I get them.

 

[rickerw]

You did a good job writing and the information is very useful since my wife in Indonesian and we were married in the US and plan to settle in Bali. It gave us something more to think about. If there is no easy way to just have a notarized statement that she owns the property 100 percent. In case she predeceases me then it would go to me which is illegal. Might be better that anything we buy be bought by her sister or mother. Not sure. Thanks,
Ricker

 

[rickerw]

Ok, I get it. My wife and I were married in the US. She is Indonesian. We plan to settle in Bali. What can we do
about buying property if there is no post nup agreement available. A will? Nothing is easy with government..

 

[BKT]

Unless you want to bend the rules I don't think theres any thing you can do

However

I'm wondering, if you haven't registered your marriage in Indonesia yet would it be possible to have a pre-nup drawn up before doing so? I mean technically your marriage isn't legal here yet right? or am I missing something.

 

[rickerw]

Thanks. That is a good idea and we will check it out, see if it can be done. Thanks, Ricker

 

[Fred2]

I would check the date on your marriage certificate from the us, then the pre-nup must be registered before that date. so that should be easy:icon_mrgreen:
No such thing as a post-nup, or a note from mum, dad or your wife saying you don't own any land:icon_mrgreen:.
You marriage should have been registered with your nearest Indonesian embassy.
You have 30 days to register you marriage when you return to Indonesia.
Use you mother in-law to buy the land.

 

[Adam]

You have 30 days to register you marriage when you return to Indonesia.

Hi Fred2,

Just a question if you don't mind, what are the implications of not registering within 30 days? I know of heaps of blokes over here that have registered their marriages with the consulate but certainly haven't registered them in Indonesia beyond this. I note some of the consequences as detailed by Mark above, but are there any others to your knowledge? Is that 30 day period an automatic cut off, or can the marriage still be registered with some for of penalty? (Can't understand why there should be a cut-off period or a penalty but it is Indo after all).

"I would check the date on your marriage certificate from the us, then the pre-nup must be registered before that date. so that should be easy"

Sorry mate, but I'm not sure if you are being serious or facetious with this comment? If their marriages haven't been registered is it indeed a possibility?

Kind regards,
Adam

 

[gilbert de jong]

yeah...you can register, but pay a fine.

 

[Fred2]

Hi Fred2,

Just a question if you don't mind, what are the implications of not registering within 30 days? I know of heaps of blokes over here that have registered their marriages with the consulate but certainly haven't registered them in Indonesia beyond this. I note some of the consequences as detailed by Mark above, but are there any others to your knowledge? Is that 30 day period an automatic cut off, or can the marriage still be registered with some for of penalty? (Can't understand why there should be a cut-off period or a penalty but it is Indo after all).

"I would check the date on your marriage certificate from the us, then the pre-nup must be registered before that date. so that should be easy"

Sorry mate, but I'm not sure if you are being serious or facetious with this comment? If their marriages haven't been registered is it indeed a possibility?

Kind regards,
Adam

1 mill fee I think if not register on time
When you register in Indonesia you show your marriage cert from oversea, the date on your pre-nup will have to before the date on the wedding cert.