hi guys. can anyone advise me about the civil & legal requirements of marrying a balinese girl in bali. any help would be much appreciated.
One thing which is different in Indonesia to other countries, is that you need to be the same religion. So, if you don't have the same religon, one of you will need to convert. A pre-nup is a good idea if you want to buy property in Indonesia. If you are from Australia there is a good explanation on the consulate website: Getting married in Bali - Australian Consulate-General
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Think long and hard before you marry.... My daughter (American) is married to a Balinese. He's a great guy and I love him dearly but the difference in cultures makes it hard on marriage - and marriage is hard enough all on its own. Now that they have two beautiful daughters I'm even more fearful of their future and the girls future. Yes, you have to be of same religion before you marry (he is now Catholic). Other than that I don't know the in's and out's of getting married - just give long thought to the difference in cultures and not just the things that are apparent now but all that will become apparent once the hot and heaviness of early love wears off and everyday live sets in....
That applies to marrying anybody anywhere. Makes little difference if your woman is a Balinese princess or an Eskimo.
Traditional Balinese protocol would usually require the woman to go and live in the husband's family compound, with all that that entails.
Modern Balinese are more flexible and accommodating.
Unfortunately, because you're not Balinese, you can't just go and "kidnap" your woman (with her parents' prior consent), like people used to.
I'm not sure that many Balinese still do that these days and never figured out if a foreigner could.
The "same religion" requirement in Indonesia is draconic, at best. Often, it's just a thing on paper, signed somewhere.
If your future wife's family wants you to become a Balinese Hindu, that adds extra steps in the process of getting married (in Bali).
Nothing is insurmountable. There are many possible paths to the same destination.
I fell in love with a Balinese years ago. It was a pity that she was married to the son of a Javanese friend of mine. That didn't stop us, although the process of her getting a divorce was tiresome.
Eventually got married in a civil ceremony in Australia and "registered" the marriage in Indonesia when we came back. We lasted seven years together and finally divorced.
(Believe it or not, she didn't like living in Bali - too hard to make money, too many "ceremonies", corrupt priests, etc.)
Later, I found and fell in love with my current wife who is Sundanese (West Java). Well, she was married, too. Long story - but her husband died in a motorbike accident.
For us to get "legally married" here, I had to become a Moslem (at least on paper). I did that in central Java, had the equivalent of a civil marriage service ("Islamic registry office"), and became a "Moslem" for at least one day.
We were both issued with official Indonesian marriage books. Our marriage is recognised, for example, in Australia. Been there a couple of times - my wife had no visa problems.
We've now been married for ten years.
Mostly, there isn't that much that can stop two people falling in love and getting married. Where there's a will, there's a way.
Intercultural marriages can have their own surprises, along the way. But not necessarily any more than marrying the "wrong" person from your own backyard.
All relationships are a mutual adventure in exploration of each other. Cultural differences add more spice to the equation.
Hope this helps a little.
:love_heart:
This is very sound advice. A notaris can help with this document, which must be signed and registered (with the District Court I believe) before your marriage. Essentially, in it you agree to forgo all interest in any property that your wife to be owns or may eventually own in Indonesia during your marriage. It's the only way that your wife to be can legally own land in the country once she gets married. Shouldn't cost you the earth (don't know about Bali but mine in Jakarta cost around 3.5 jt all in), and is well worth the time and effort if you would ever contemplate owning land in Indonesia. Best of luck!
There are many previous threads on this subject. Search the forum with "pre-nup" or "mixed marriage".
Here are a few when I searched "pre-nup".
balipod.com
balipod.com
balipod.com
Here are a few when I searched "pre-nup".
Property with mixed marriage
Article 21 (1) Only Indonesian citizens can have a hak milik. Easy!!!! (2) The Government is to determine which corporate bodies can have a hak milik and the conditions thereof. (3) A foreigner who, following the entry into force of this Act, acquires a hak milik by way of...
balipod.com
Buy property in Indonesia mixed couple
I have read on a website about indonesian expats that an indonesian woman if married to foreigner can not own any property in indonesia?does it mean this that we can not buy a house on my wifes`s name?I can not on my name as a foreigner as I know but my wife is indonesian citizen.What happen...
balipod.com
getting married out of indonesia
i am a new here so please help out thanks. i have done some searching but no solid answers. i am getting married soon in the states with an javanese girl and is that marriage legal in indo or do i have to marry again when we get back. so would it be ok to get a prenup and get married again when...
balipod.com
My mother used to say, " It's as easy to fall in love with a rich woman as it is with a poor one!" My advice therefore is marry a Balinese if and only if she is RICH!:icon_e_wink:
I think this is one of the most hotly debated issues on this forum and others. I would suggest talking with a notary/lawyer and getting advice from them before you get married. When people think of getting a "pre-nup" they probably think it is something which only celebrities or wealthy people get. We got one for property, but it also helped us to discuss other things we wanted to put in it.
I don't agree that you should have to have the same religion as your spouse, but again that is something we had to discuss more before we got married and how we would bring up our kids.
It is typical for Indonesian children to support their parents and family to a certain degree, so I think this is something important to discuss before you get married.
As Spicy says 'hotly debated' however my wife and I have no prenup and she has bought land in her name only. I know of other people who have bought land in their wifes name with no prenup either and when things had gone wrong were awarded more than 50% by the courts. So all a bit unclear as to if it really is necessary, although of course officially a non Indonesian can not own land and being married means you own 50% of each others property. Tricky.
"Unfortunately", "Kidnap" & "never figured out if a foreigner could" Thanks for the humor! Seriously, you should get paid for this. I am now a fan of yours!
Regards,
Kory
Allahu Akbar, Johnny. Muslim for "at least one day" is not a problem, but the question is can you drive a truck?:concern:
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Definitely tricky, though it's not hard to purchase land as an Indonesian married to a bule. The seller of our property didn't care less who bought, as long as he got the money. However, the issue arises when it comes time to sell/transfer title to a third party. If the Indonesian wife's KTP says married, or if the notaris otherwise has reason to believe that the seller is married, then he/she will require a no objection certificate from the husband, whose name will also be required to be listed in the purchase and sale agreement. If the husband is not Indonesian, this is where problems can arise, as the title to the property will be potentially in doubt and an honest notaris would not execute the transaction. If the marriage is not registered in Indonesia, then I don't see how there could be problem, as the government will still view the Indonesian partner as single (which can on the other hand have other unintended consequences re kids, visas, etc). In any case, this is a matter that most definitely requires a lawyer's opinion.
C
CanonMan
Guest
Pre-nup, absolutely. Just heard from a mate that he's going through hell at the moment. Spent three years building a business. Now that his toils are starting to pay off his Javanese wife has taken his daughter back to Java, demanded a divorce and taken possession of their two houses. She's also reported him to labor and pushing for his deportation. Of course he stumped all the cash up for the business and homes, put it all in her name and didn't go for the pre-nup seeing as they were having a baby. thought everything was roses.
Too many stories like this doing the rounds. Make sure you're covered.
The sound of 2c spent.
Too many stories like this doing the rounds. Make sure you're covered.
The sound of 2c spent.
Hey Mark, sorry to hear about your mate, sounds like a hellish situation, especially with a child involved. I'm not sure that a pre-nup would have helped regarding the homes, but may have helped re the business. Essentially, these agreements say that the foreign spouse to be relinquishes all rights to the other person's property in Indonesia, whether existing before the marriage or acquired thereafter, but they can also say the opposite, that the Indo spouse relinquishes her rights in anything that her husband legally acquires in Indonesia (eg, a business). In any event, the key takeaway for prospective marriage partners of Indonesian women is to speak to a lawyer before the marriage, and enter into a prenup if you want to preserve her right to own real property and your right to keep your other assets located in Indonesia should the relationship go south.
Mark makes a very good point but I'm unsure if a pre-nup in Indonesia achieves the same as in other countries.
Generally, a marriage in Indonesia automatically assumes that all assets are shared. A pre-nup changes those conditions of assets owned prior to the wedding.
Subsequently, if a pre-nup is in place, the RI spouse can own freehold property separately which can be willed to another WNI, i.e. WNI children or relative.
If a pre-nup was not in place and the WNI spouse died, the property would automatically be assumed by the foreign spouse, which is illegal. In this case, the property must be disposed within one year, otherwise, the RI Gov't can assume ownership
With or without a pre-nup...other assets may be disputed.
It is 'property ownership laws by foreigners' that is troublesome in mixed marriages in Indonesia and requires legal explanation, prior to the wedding.
Generally, a marriage in Indonesia automatically assumes that all assets are shared. A pre-nup changes those conditions of assets owned prior to the wedding.
Subsequently, if a pre-nup is in place, the RI spouse can own freehold property separately which can be willed to another WNI, i.e. WNI children or relative.
If a pre-nup was not in place and the WNI spouse died, the property would automatically be assumed by the foreign spouse, which is illegal. In this case, the property must be disposed within one year, otherwise, the RI Gov't can assume ownership
With or without a pre-nup...other assets may be disputed.
It is 'property ownership laws by foreigners' that is troublesome in mixed marriages in Indonesia and requires legal explanation, prior to the wedding.
Actually, in my case the pre-nup says that both of us waive claims to assets owned prior to the marriage or acquired by one party or the other thereafter ( key words - 'between husband and wife there is no community of property'). If it only applied to assets existing prior to marriage then my wife would have lost her right to legally acquire land after marriage. RI is essentially a community property country, where all assets acquired during marriage are presumed to be owned 50-50, unless by way of a pre-nup the spouses to be waive the application of the community property provisions. So, a properly drafted pre-nup could prevent a foreign spouse from losing a business in RI during divorce which he legally owned before or acquired during marriage, as well as preserving the right of the local spouse to acquire and own land in her own name. In any event, I would recommend that anyone interested in a pre-nup get good legal advice prior to the wedding, and be sure to read and understand the terms of the pre-nup before signing in order to make sure that your own situation and objectives are properly addressed. Finally, make sure that the document is properly registered in the district court prior to the official marriage ceremony (your notaris can do this for you).
There was a story on the front page of the Bali Times about an expat who had been here 20 years and his wife was divorcing him and taking over the business. She was even having him deported. I don't there is an easy way to protect yourself and I don't think just because you are a foreigner you aren't entitled to an equal division of assets. Some foreigners I know who got divorced, sold their property and then split the proceeds.