Yayasan.. NGO etc etc

[longqi]

I am trying to find out a few things

Exactly what are the laws about Yayasans/NGOs?

If one was set up correctly with purely Indonesian ownership/directors, could they then control everything?
Or are there legal limits on spending etc?
I expect those directors and other Indonesian staff would be paid?
Can the level of payment be locked into place so it cannot be altered??

If the Yayasan starts making a significant amount of money can the directors turn it into a private company instead??

If expat unpaid volunteers work there exactly what visa is required??
So far told ..
Visa on arrival required [which I know is incorrect]
Full Working Kitas required
Retirement kitas required
Social visa required

Prices quoted for registering a Yayasan so far have ranged between 5.6jt and 153jt
Hopefully someone here knows what it really should be

 

[ronb]

Take a look at https://balipod.com/forum/threads/running-a-charity-in-bali-whats-the-deal.6121/

 

[longqi]

Take a look at https://balipod.com/forum/threads/running-a-charity-in-bali-whats-the-deal.6121/

I have actually read that post
Biggest problem is that that post is regarding setting up an NGO with yourself as owner/director
I dont want to be owner or director or anything like that
I want this owned directed and run by Indonesians
My only input would be in the initial stages teaching them how to do it

My biggest concern is that this idea has worked very well overseas where I set it up
Because it worked so well people got greedy and money was 'diverted'
I totally expect some diversion of funds to happen as thats human nature
But I dont want everything to disintegrate if that could be avoided fairly simply

If there is some way of avoiding that possibility it would be great
That is why knowing exactly what directors can and cannot alter is fairly important

 

[longqi]

I have had a lot of questions answered in another forum

Those answers have let me decide that it is definitely worth trying

Only problem I have now is finding out how much the government department permit should be

Department is BKSDA
My Bahasa is poor
But even so the permit price of 25jt/50jt seems both excessive and surely should be fixed

Particularly as this will be owned/directed by Indonesians

Any thoughts or ideas on who to ring next??

 

[spicyayam]

Only problem I have now is finding out how much the government department permit should be

Like anything in Indonesia there is the official price for things like this and a more expensive but negotiable price to get the permit done sometime in your lifetime. There are "biro jasa" consultants who can help get permits. You often see their signs around and the kind of documents they help people get. Some government departments have websites and you could run it through Google translate.

 

[longqi]

Like anything in Indonesia there is the official price for things like this and a more expensive but negotiable price to get the permit done sometime in your lifetime. There are "biro jasa" consultants who can help get permits. You often see their signs around and the kind of documents they help people get. Some government departments have websites and you could run it through Google translate.

Thank you for that
I talked with BKSDA Jakarta and their price is 2jt for the permit
But Bali being Bali I will probably find it a bit more expensive here
..

 

[longqi]

Very interesting few days

Imigrasi stated in no uncertain terms that residents on a retirement kitas are NOT allowed to
do any volunteer work of any kind

Secondly I was advised that a Kumpulan would be a much simpler organisation

Any comment gratefully accepted

 

[ronb]

I understand that strictly the ruling of "no volunteer work" is correct.

I know nothing about Kumpulan - do you have pointers to any information?

 

[longqi]

Sorry Ron
Its actually Perkumpulan
Its sounds like its more of a community??
Easy to set up

About the Visa thing
I received no real help from imigrasi
Nobody would commit themselves to any definitive answer

I asked
"Exactly what visa will let me help as a volunteer?"

Some thought a so-bud would be ok
Most seemed to agree a working kitas would be ok
But only if the exact nature of any volunteer work was stipulated on the kitas

That would appear to remove any possibility of volunteering at more than one yayasan????

 

[ronb]

I think the "no work" for sosbud and retirement are the same. The intention is to protect jobs for locals. You will not get a clear answer to your question about "help as a volunteer" because it is not clear what this means. For example you may find an orphanage and volunteer to server meals, clean rooms, etc. Clearly all this could be done by hiring a local person at low cost. On the other hand you may be aiming to help them in brain-storming their future directions and working out how exactly to use the Internet. Then this is getting to be a more grey area. Mostly you will get problems with your visa if some local person complains about what you are doing and asks Immigration to investigate

 

[longqi]

Its quite interesting

If anyone decides to help at any yayasan or perkumpulan with any visa/kitas they can be prosecuted if imigrasi want to prosecute
Maximum sentence 5 years jail and 500,000,000idr
Even fund raisers are equally liable to prosecution if they dont have a working kitas that stipulates exactly when where and how they will fund raise etc etc

Basically every single yayasan etc that asks for volunteers knows those volunteers will be breaking the law but doesnt care??

Imigrasi was very clear that prosecutions of volunteers with either so-bud or retirement kitas were very rare and each one was treated on its merits
But as Ron pointed out, anyone can complain to imigrasi for any reason

I have both time and ability so I thought I could help out here
But under those conditions???

 

[ronb]

Well if your proposed help is to do work that a local could be employed for, then you alternative is to donate the rather small amount of money required to employ the local. Everyone will be happy and it won't cost you much.

But if, on the other hand, your abilities are not easily replaced by employing locals (like planning Internet strategies perhaps) - then I would expect you will have no probelms.

 

[longqi]

Hi Ron
The proposed volunteer advise was fairly specialised and imigrasi completely understood that
They basically asked me to let them design the best kitas etc etc

But when it comes down to the actual technical legality of it
it was still illegal to do any volunteering in nearly 100% of cases

I completely understand about tasks that could be done by Indonesians
But when you can be prosecuted legally for simply organising a fund raising event
it does make me question how much they actually want our help??

I was given a pointer on another forum
You can also be a legal volunteer if you have a letter from Director General Imigrasi, Jakarta
I am following through on that and will let you know the outcome
That may be the only completely legal way of volunteering here?????

 

[gilbert de jong]

Difference between yayasan and Perkumpulan

Perkumpulan :
a. Bersifat dan bertujuan komersial;
b. Mementingkan keuntungan (profit oriented);
c. Mempunyai anggota.

- Yayasan :
a. Bersifat dan bertujuan sosial, keagamaan dan kemanusiaan;
b. Tidak semata-mata mengutamakan keuntungan atau mengejar/ mencari keuntungan dan/atau penghasilan yang sebesar-besarnya;
c. Tidak mempunyai anggota.

 

[spicyayam]

What kind of charity do you want to start exactly?

 

[longqi]

Spicyayam
It involves nature and environmental/ecological problems

Difference between yayasan and Perkumpulan

Perkumpulan :
a. Bersifat dan bertujuan komersial;
b. Mementingkan keuntungan (profit oriented);
c. Mempunyai anggota.

- Yayasan :
a. Bersifat dan bertujuan sosial, keagamaan dan kemanusiaan;
b. Tidak semata-mata mengutamakan keuntungan atau mengejar/ mencari keuntungan dan/atau penghasilan yang sebesar-besarnya;
c. Tidak mempunyai anggota.

Difference between foundations and associations

associations:
a. Nature and commercial purposes;
b. Concerned with profit (profit-oriented);
c. Having members.

- Foundation:
a. Nature and purpose of social, religious and humanitarian;
b. Not merely prioritizing profit or pursuing / for profit and / or income maximization;
c. Has no members.

The most important difference is not mentioned there
Imigrasi said most of complaints and resulting investigations were when foreigners helped at Perkumpulan
I think they turn a blind to yayasan most of the time
But as soon as I mentioned volunteering at a perkumpulan their attitude was much more official

 

[gilbert de jong]

strange enough (maybe) a yayasan is a PT .
and a perkumpulan isn't

 

[longqi]

strange enough (maybe) a yayasan is a PT .
and a perkumpulan isn't

I think it is more than Maybe a PT
But trying to pin that down is far beyond my capacity

 

[gilbert de jong]

what I meant with strange is that the yayasan (not commercial) is the PT/PMA and the perkumpulan (commercial) is not..
imho that is strange, as are many things in Indonesia...so for some 'maybe' that is strange too.
but I am a 100% sure a yayasan is a PT/PMA...

 

[Matthew Timor]

Hi longqi,

I am in the process of setting up a yayasan as we speak. Similar to you I am using only Indonesian members. (Not sure where gilberts quote for Yayasan not having members comes from?) The way I see the set up it is the same as an Incorporated Association in Australia. The entity can run a money making business but it is not a PT Co. As long as the profits don't go to the members all is fine. Turn over under $450k AU is taxed at 12.5percent.

It's my understanding that you do need a Kitas to be involved with the yayasan on the ground in Indo. The yayasan is your sponsor similar to a PT co. sponsoring you.
I am getting my friend to do the Govt submissions but I have been quoted around 25jt and also under 10jt from another source so it does vary by the looks of things. Depending on which ministerial area you are proposing to operate I suppose.

Do you know the requirements for bules to be members of a yayasan? Thinking down the track we'll add some to create accountability.