Anybody yet have experience of trying to have the new law implemented in Bali? I read an article in today's Jakarta Globe and am now really confused.
I have moved your question to a new thread. It seems like you are referring to this article:
New Immigration Law Confuses One and All | The Jakarta Globe
New Immigration Law Confuses One and All | The Jakarta Globe
Well, I think the article is comprehensive so should reduce confusion. It says that
* some Jakarta offices are not processing applications because there are no "implementation rules" yet
* other offices are processing applications and apparently making their own rules
and it also hints that agents can seem to get it done at a high price.
Of course, if the journalists had questioned Bali Immigration Offices, you would find it even more helpful. But it's likely that the Bali offices also have different approaches - just like Jakarta.
* some Jakarta offices are not processing applications because there are no "implementation rules" yet
* other offices are processing applications and apparently making their own rules
and it also hints that agents can seem to get it done at a high price.
Of course, if the journalists had questioned Bali Immigration Offices, you would find it even more helpful. But it's likely that the Bali offices also have different approaches - just like Jakarta.
Like everything ronb if you want a agent you have to shop around, if you want a good Immigration office you have to shop around.
In Surabaya I have been told that you must be on your 2nd kitas sponsored by your wife & then you can start the process.
Just depend on what Immigration office you go to.:icon_mrgreen:
So to complete the survey of local offices we just need reports of what people have been told at Renon and Singaraja.
Singaraja/Pemaron, does not yet process applications for a KITAP if married for two years (or more).
Training of the regional offices outside of jakata , in implementing the new law has started
..., but at this time bali offices are still waiting . Untill the seminars are completed to imigrasi staff thoughout Bali - expect to be palmed away , or in otherword , the old rules will still apply.
In Java though , some offices are already processing under the new law.
..., but at this time bali offices are still waiting . Untill the seminars are completed to imigrasi staff thoughout Bali - expect to be palmed away , or in otherword , the old rules will still apply.
In Java though , some offices are already processing under the new law.
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@ronb. Yes it should reduce confusion, but doesn't (at least not for me and many others).
The original news about this new immigration law was like a breath of fresh air. Many affected couples were prematurely ecstatic. The proof of the pudding was/is yet to come.
The original statements seemed to suggest that any expat already married to an Indonesian for at least two years could simply go to an Immigration office and "automatically" get a new ("improved") visa. For very little money, I might add.
And then only have to report themselves once every five years (and again, pay next to nothing).
Well - that's when the famous words of Tom Waits took on even more meaning for me:
The big print giveth
And the small print taketh away
Then there was the issue of when the President of Indonesia would actually sign the new bill. After that, we now have the issue of when the new law will actually be implemented. Some offices in Jakarta seem to have no problem with it - others still do.
Personally, I don't understand why Bali Imigrasi staff need to have "seminars" about this. Can't they read? My contacts there estimate it might take until May, 2012 before everybody knows what's going on here. But even that's just guessing on their part.
As far as I can tell, the "automatic" KITAP (or whatever it is), "after two years of marriage" only applies if the expat partner has used the Indonesian partner as a "sponsor". That implies some kind of KITAS in the first place, or does it also apply to people who've been here on four successive SOSBUD visas?
Quite frankly, it's still all as clear to me as mud.
Some other strange things I've noticed:
1) The retirement KITAS supposedly has a maximum of five years. My sixth one ends next month. How is this possible?
2) I have never had to employ local staff, rent a place for at least $X,000 per year, provide bank statements from my own country, prove I have Health Insurance, etc. How come?
Because of all the confusion and the fact that I have never used my wife as a "sponsor" on my KITASes in the past, I'm looking at my seventh retirement KITAS. Again, how is this possible? I deal directly with Immigration staff - no "agents" involved.
So I'm off to Singapore next Monday on a new visa run. Thought about Thailand, but don't know any agents there, plus I don't have a surfboard any more.
Currently sitting, chewing my nails down to the quick, drinking more than usual and waiting for my Exit Permit to arrive and some other bit of paper from Jakarta. I started the process well in advance of my visa expiring. Was told to book my ticket out of Indonesia and after that, report ten days before my flight. That was OK until I asked myself how long is "ten days" here? To be on the safe side, gave myself 14 days (to include weekends, etc).
Still waiting. Maybe tomorrow or the next day. Got lots of photos of myself in various sizes. Booked my flights and hotel in Singapore.
I welcome anybody here with more real, more up-to-date information to contact me as soon as possible via a PM.
One last thing. Expats married to Indonesians for at least two years might be able to work here "legally". I think it's the Indonesian "Man-Power Department" that hasn't been to a seminar, yet. Different section - maybe different laws - probably different interpretations of it, no matter what. (It's the one that requires employers' to pay US1200/year to compensate local workers whose jobs may be threatened by more competent foreigners. I wonder where all that money goes to?)
I posted a comment on The Jakarta Globe article mentioned above.
Fitri - you're not alone.
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Sorry Fred2
If I now want (or have to) use my wife as my "sponsor", I have to wait for another two years?
Which part didn't you understand?
I'm "sorry" for rambling on too much. I was hoping for a more intelligent response. Yours doesn't qualify.
Thanks for trying.
no JC, you don't have to wait to get an kitas (1 year)sponsored by your wife, and if you have proof (indonesian wedding certificate or buku nikah) of being married to her for 2 or more years, you can right away apply for the kitaP (5years)
still some confusion within the government about how to issue a workingpermit. different department (not imigrasi) issues those.
as for the retirement kitas it can be renewed/extended upto 5 times (totalling 6 years), and after that it should become a kitaP. One could apply for a retirement kitaP when applying for the
third renewal/extention.
hope this clears it up a bit.
still some confusion within the government about how to issue a workingpermit. different department (not imigrasi) issues those.
as for the retirement kitas it can be renewed/extended upto 5 times (totalling 6 years), and after that it should become a kitaP. One could apply for a retirement kitaP when applying for the
third renewal/extention.
hope this clears it up a bit.
owww you do visa runs...why??) a retirementvisa is extendable without having to leave the country.. but it makes sense you can be on your 7th one now, since when you leave the country
you get issued a whole new retirementkitas each time..
some of the requirements of a getting a retirement kitas involves, hiring at least one indonesian, (pembantu/sopir/whatever), spending xxx amount on renting a villa or 'owning' a villa means you pay tax on it, also health insurance is a requirement...now why they have never asked you to provide proof of doing/having the above, I don't know...why don't you ask them
you get issued a whole new retirementkitas each time..
some of the requirements of a getting a retirement kitas involves, hiring at least one indonesian, (pembantu/sopir/whatever), spending xxx amount on renting a villa or 'owning' a villa means you pay tax on it, also health insurance is a requirement...now why they have never asked you to provide proof of doing/having the above, I don't know...why don't you ask them
Sorry I couldn't understand most of your rambling
Now comes the tricky part, you now have to prove to Immigration that you have been married for 2 years.
If you were on a kitas sponsored by you wife & were going to renew you kitas for the third time, you have proof of you marriage.
You can start your paper work, but you may have to get letters to prove your marriage documents are true? letters stating your marriage is registered in your country, embassy stating your marriage cert is correct etc
have fun:icon_mrgreen:
Now comes the tricky part, you now have to prove to Immigration that you have been married for 2 years.
If you were on a kitas sponsored by you wife & were going to renew you kitas for the third time, you have proof of you marriage.
You can start your paper work, but you may have to get letters to prove your marriage documents are true? letters stating your marriage is registered in your country, embassy stating your marriage cert is correct etc
have fun:icon_mrgreen:
Thank you, gilbert
Of course I asked about getting a KITAP several years ago. Immigration wanted me to pay for five years up-front and my official agreed it was expensive, so didn't bother.
My exit permit, etc, are on the way (spoke to Immigration this morning). I haven't submitted my photos yet, or a copy of my rental contract. Seems like they don't want them now (?), at least in my case. Maybe they'll ask when I go to pay.
I've heard and read about so many different versions of the processes and "requirements" involved that it makes my head spin. Just wish everything was truly "standardised".
And thank you, too Fred2
No - I don't do visa runs - but will have to this time.
Of course I asked about getting a KITAP several years ago. Immigration wanted me to pay for five years up-front and my official agreed it was expensive, so didn't bother.
That's always been a mystery to me, too, but it's true. I'm not complaining.some of the requirements of a getting a retirement kitas involves, hiring at least one indonesian, (pembantu/sopir/whatever), spending xxx amount on renting a villa or 'owning' a villa means you pay tax on it, also health insurance is a requirement...now why they have never asked you to provide proof of doing/having the above, I don't know...why don't you ask them
My exit permit, etc, are on the way (spoke to Immigration this morning). I haven't submitted my photos yet, or a copy of my rental contract. Seems like they don't want them now (?), at least in my case. Maybe they'll ask when I go to pay.
I've heard and read about so many different versions of the processes and "requirements" involved that it makes my head spin. Just wish everything was truly "standardised".
And thank you, too Fred2
I already have all that you mention. Had it for years!
Don't wish too hard....you might get asked for all the requirements for a retirement visa. Can't have it both ways and I'll take the room for negotiation approach every time!
I was going to change to a kitap, but Immigration said it will be easier next year. I have just renewed my Kitas, price 700,000rp + 55,000 for photo, finger prints & stamp. So I will wait & see what the department of manpower comes up with next year.
The price for the Kitap is already listed on the price board at Immigration 3,000,000rp. Immigration has this idea that westerns will just get married so they can get a 5 year visa, this is why they are checking on marriage documents + home visit + next door to make sure you are married.:icon_mrgreen:
The price for the Kitap is already listed on the price board at Immigration 3,000,000rp. Immigration has this idea that westerns will just get married so they can get a 5 year visa, this is why they are checking on marriage documents + home visit + next door to make sure you are married.:icon_mrgreen: