soul_surfer

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Jun 22, 2013
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Hi new to the forum, there is so much info here and been working my way through it.

Im a FIFO worker living on the sunny coast in Australia with great aspirations of moving to bali saving tax and living the dream. I love surfing and have holidayed there 5 times over the last 20 years. Were planning to head over in September to pick a location and school as we have 2 kids 6 and 9 and all going well moving there in December.

Im keen as and the wife is worried about everything wife's worry about. :icon_lol:

I'd love to hear from people who have moved there with children and what mistakes they made that they would do differently now? I need to make this as smooth a transition as possible and hopefully avoid as many pitfalls as possible.

Im sure i'll be starting many threads over the next ensuing months and hopefully will meet some of you in the future.

Great site and info.

Cheers Matt
 

ronb

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2007
2,241
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Ubud, Bali
Hi new to the forum, there is so much info here and been working my way through it.

Hi Matt, welcome to the forum.


Im keen as and the wife is worried about everything wife's worry about. :icon_lol:

So why not try a 6-month or 12-month period initially. Just rent something here, see if you can look after the needs of the kids, then if necessary, retreat.
 

soul_surfer

New Member
Jun 22, 2013
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Yep thats definitely the plan.
But even a 12 month commitment with kids is a commitment. As leaving and starting a new school and then if it doesnt work out then doing it all again to come back.

Thats why i dont intend to rush in. This forum is a great help and hopefully a source of like minded expats to make friends with for the missus and the kids.

Im sure as every new tourist to bali pays to higher price or gets caught out in the 1st few days so to would the new expat look back over the last 6 months and laugh as they made this or that mistake.

Hopefully some will come forward and share there biggest, Oh no moments haha.
 

spicyayam

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2009
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Some mistakes that I know people have made are mostly concerned with the property they rented. Not checking the place out enough and having problems later, like noise or bats!

I think other problems would include underestimating the cost to live in Bali, things like house prices, insurance, visa costs and of course education.

Maybe it would help if you wrote about the concerns your wife has about moving.
 

soul_surfer

New Member
Jun 22, 2013
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Ok my wife's main concerns are

Not making/ having closefriends. Being lonely. Not having any support.
Kids getting seriously sick, injured while Im away and having to deal with it herself. Standard of care being poor.
Kids education not being up to Australian standard and them being disadvantaged as a result. They currently go to a fantastic school.
Kids being limited in what they can do, as kids currently are involved in competitive swimming, gymnastics and tennis and surfing!! :)
The fear of a foreign country with corruption and being totally responsible for our kids when I'm away.

Bearing in mind school fee's at Canggu school are similar to where the kids go now.
If we can live a lush lifestyle for 60 to 80k AUD with a maid ect I'll be stoked and im willing to bribe her with luxury to be happy. I currently pay around 80k a year in tax, by living in Bali if we can bank what I usually take home and live on what I usually pay in tax were miles in front. I work outside Australia in the oil and gas industry bring it home and get slugged tons in tax and I've had enough.

She has traveled the world as a backpacker and isnt a princess, well she's my princess but you know what I mean. Its throwing the kids into the equation that is her concern. If anything was to happen to them she would never forgive herself or me.

However this thread was more about, dont rent a house for a year until you have been here a month, Pay monthly not 6 monthly?? Dont get rupiah bank account stay with USD one???
Get you maid to do all your shopping to get the local discount, dont get the maid to do all your shopping?? I trully dont know what lessons you would learn or do differently??
 
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ronb

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2007
2,241
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Ubud, Bali
Here are some quick ideas addressing some of your points:

Ok my wife's main concerns are

Not making/ having closefriends. Being lonely. Not having any support.

I think most expats will tell you it is easier than you think to make friends with other expats, and not so hard to make friends with English speaking locals. The forum may help with more Balipod experiences.

Kids getting seriously sick, injured while Im away and having to deal with it herself. Standard of care being poor.

I understand the fear. I have used BIMC (see BIMC HOSPITAL ? Bali ? 24 Hour Medical and Emergency Centre | 24 Hour Medical and Emergency Centre ? Medical Evacuation) and they give you a feeling of security by looking and feeling like medical services you are used to. They do lab tests, X-rays and the like and don't just look at you then prescribe medicines. For specialists, they know where they are and can send you to them in their Bali hospitals at a lower cost, or have them come to BIMC to see you at a higher cost. In some situations they may recommend seeking help outside Bali - for Australians that would be back in Aust, for others it may be Singapore.

My point is that when your wife is alone and some emergency arises, BIMC or one of the other similar services will respond and take much worry out if it.
Kids education not being up to Australian standard and them being disadvantaged as a result. They currently go to a fantastic school.
Depends a bit on age - maybe kids towards the end of high school are best not disturbed, and for university you want a western country but they are pretty much independent by then. For younger kids, if they have s few years in Bali, maybe the advantages of experiencing another country and culture may balance out the possibility that their Natplan scores could fall. But I don't have kids so won't say any more on this.
Kids being limited in what they can do, as kids currently are involved in competitive swimming, gymnastics and tennis and surfing!! :)
All the kids of expats that I know do just fine, have plenty to do although the mix of activities will be different.
The fear of a foreign country with corruption and being totally responsible for our kids when I'm away.

In everyday life you don't bump into corruption much. Of course when getting building plans approved or businesses started you may bump into it, but that's not what your wife will be doing. So my advice is don't worry - but other balipodders can add to that.

Pay monthly not 6 monthly??
You'll get better rates if you pay 6-monthly or annually.
Dont get rupiah bank account stay with USD one???
Makes no sense to me. You end up spending Rupiah. You seem to earn Aussie $. I cannot see a role for USD - just unnecessary conversions.
Get you maid to do all your shopping to get the local discount, dont get the maid to do all your shopping?? I trully dont know what lessons you would learn or do differently??

I wouldn't do that - but that's just me. It means you must trust them with considerable amounts of money. Most of the shopping will be in supermarkets - so you and your wife will feel at home there.
 
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no.idea

Member
Feb 22, 2011
862
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Sanur
The tax issue is something you will have to address with the company you work for/with. There may not be an immediate tax break because you have changed country of residence.
You are normally away for a percentage of the time so your wife would have to deal with an emergency situation herself regardless of where you are based.
Your wife will find it easy to make western friends here. There are various groups of expats who meet up for different reasons and occasions.
I was on the beach at Sweet Magnolia Cafe (Sanur) last evening and there were two seperate groups of western women meeting up for a chat.
Sangla Hospital is also very good. The emergency admission section averages around 200 fools a day from motorbike accidents. I was in there this week. From getting to the doors it took 30 minutes to be treated, have blood tested, prescription written and being issued with medicine from the pharmacy. I was very impressed. The total bill came to $5.50.
A lot of what you need to know will unravel by it self. The main thing is to be patient, nothing will happen at the rates we expected in our former lives.
Send a few PM's and arrange to meet a few of us, most of us are more than happy to offer assistance.
 

Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
9,317
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Your wife is obviously the one with the brains in the family - stay in Oz until the kids are at Uni and then come to Bali.
 

soul_surfer

New Member
Jun 22, 2013
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Your wife is obviously the one with the brains in the family - stay in Oz until the kids are at Uni and then come to Bali.
You could well be correct Markit haha. But that would entail me staying in Australia for another 12 years and paying over a million in taxes for work that i've earned in Asia, the UK ect. I understand there will be sacrifices but i think it will be worth it in the long run. taxcalc.com.au
Im 43 years old and should be able to bank/ invest approx 150K plus every year that I live in Bali and live off the tax that I would of paid in Australia While living better then we live here. I do spend anywhere from 4 to 6 months away from my family a year and I've had enough of not being able to claim flights to get to the UK to go to work. $300 to $400 a week on food..........
Im at the point if we dont try this for a year I'm removing my self from a 300k a year job and getting a 3 day job that pays 50K a year. Im happy for the kids to go to state schools and for us to live in a smaller house with an older car. I went to state schools and lived in a caravan park as a kid and turned out alright. I've done the hard yards for 11 years and for all we have eanrt were not that much better off.
 

Markit

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Sep 3, 2007
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Understand that I also hate paying taxes and being separated from my family too but in my humble opinion you will not get out of paying those taxes by moving to Bali as you will not get citizenship/working permit/tax exemption or anything like it for Indonesia since you work in UK/Oz/whereever and they all have double taxation agreements with your country of residence. So forget the money.

You want to live the dream of Bali but you will be actually throwing your wife into "the dream" and only visiting her there - It sounds like she don't wanna be there.

Cost benefit analysis:
Benefit: nice weather, Bali food/people/environment

Cost: Marriage, uprooting the family, kids education/friends/lives

Sob, sob I can't go on...

Potential outcome: You in Bali, wife (ex) with kids in Oz - all wages go to child support - you eat nasi goreng every day.
 

ferdie

Member
Apr 4, 2013
677
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Near Ubud
How do you intent to save money on tax if you live in Bali while you still do the same work and still hold the same citizenship?

So the work is done abroad and you pay your taxes in OZ, so if you move to Bali you can exempt your tax?
I don't get it at all :topsy_turvy:
 

davita

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2012
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Generally taxes are paid in the country where one resides. Australia, like UK and Canada use the residency rules as does Indonesia for foreigners residing more than 182 days in a year. There are offsets so that double tax is not applied.

An exception is Hong Kong where only salary, not income, is taxed and I believe that is a standard 15%.

In Malaysia, they have an MM2H scheme where no tax is applied on income unless earned within Malaysia. I think this is the best system for those still working but out of Malaysia.
The schooling is good, MM2H can purchase their own homes (some restrictions), the food is the same as Indonesia and the language similar....except more English spoken. Many expats retire to Malaysia because it is more welcoming than Indonesia...they even offer tax breaks on buying certain cars.

I prefer Bali to Penang but that is my choice...others differ. There are locations in Johor Bahru called Iskander which, if I had a young family, I would investigate as it is close to S'pore but not as costly.
 

soul_surfer

New Member
Jun 22, 2013
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On speaking to my accountant, If i and my family are domiciled out of Australia, IE live in Indo have proof of that, Renting a house, kids go to school there, and we ensure we spend 181 days out of australia we become a non resident for tax purposes. Dont pay tax on foreign income. We would lose the tax free thresholds of any work done in Australia but I wouldnt work in Australia. I have only done 3 months work in australia in the last 3 years. I have paid them over 280K for the priveledge and spent alot of money getting myself to the UK ect that I cant claim as a tax deduction. The ato is now trying to pass a rule that you can only claim a max of 2K a year on training and some years my training req to get work is in excess of 10K.

If the above info is incorrect please let me know.
 

Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
9,317
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Karangasem, Bali
Your visa options in Bali are the following:
1) VOA - visa on arrival - 60days
2) Social Visa - 180 days
3) PMA - for business owners,lots of trouble and restrictions oh and costs a lot
4) Convince the wife you are now Moslem and marry an Indonesian woman (also) get the Kitas for married people.


None of these will help you convince the OZ tax vampires that you are not living in OZ. You need a residency permit and that you can't get here.
 

davita

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2012
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I recall, when I left UK in the '70's, the rule was 'you have to declare residency somewhere' unless one is in the merchant navy (apparently they have different rules).
I know UK have certain definitions of 'resident' and 'ordinarily resident' and they can be strict on housing availability; club membership; amount of time spent and banking...I transferred to the Channel Isles (same bank).
I also remember many who worked in Brussels and Germany but left families behind, and many court cases that were lost to those who thought this was OK.
The rules are too complex to be addressed in this forum so expert advice is best.
Not sure about Australia but I would be very clear of consequences if attempting to evade.
If Indonesia is the Residency then taxes on world-wide income will apply in Indonesia.
 

davita

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2012
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4) None of these will help you convince the OZ tax vampires that you are not living in OZ. You need a residency permit and that you can't get here.

Markit's last sentence has me thinking...I wonder if the OP could attain an NWPW (tax ID) and thus satisfy the Australian non-residency rule. Of course, he would need to submit his world income for tax in Indonesia but that could be considerably less tax than most other jurisdictions, and I don't think the RI tax machine is so investigative of ALL income.
 
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ferdie

Member
Apr 4, 2013
677
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Near Ubud
Well its all too technical to be discussed here, but you better have a pretty good accountant to make sure that you're tax obligation in OZ is fulfilled and switch you're your tax residency outside OZ.

I presume you are an entrepreneur so your income is paid directly by the client instead of being paid by an OZ company?
 

ronb

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2007
2,241
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Ubud, Bali
Markit's last sentence has me thinking...I wonder if the OP could attain an NWPW (tax ID) and thus satisfy the Australian non-residency rule. Of course, he would need to submit his world income for tax in Indonesia but that could be considerably less tax than most other jurisdictions, and I don't think the RI tax machine is so investigative of ALL income.

Markit's last sentence which was
None of these will help you convince the OZ tax vampires that you are not living in OZ. You need a residency permit and that you can't get here.
is misleading I think. The Aust Tax Office does not ask questions about your visa status in another country. They just ask how many months of the year have you lived in Australia. See Residency - what you need to know
 

soul_surfer

New Member
Jun 22, 2013
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Were miles off track from the original post but I'm still happy to hear peoples views and I'll discuss with my accountant. To be clear i do not, nor have I ever broken the rules with regards to paying tax. I get good advice pay the money and act accordingly.
Thanks for all replies, there all worth knowing and if some lights go on for some other posters all the better. Do your own research though and get your own advice.

Ronb reading your link I believe were on the same page. :icon_e_geek:
 
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