KITAP help?

[DenpasarHouse]

Ya, this is definitely not going so smoothly.

Good luck and don't forget that once you get that sweet, sweet KITAP you won't have to deal with them for another 5 years. You'll also be able to get a 5 year SIM. Not having to deal with those 2 government departments for another 5 years is worth all the blood and tears now.

 

[Natasha]

Good luck and don't forget that once you get that sweet, sweet KITAP you won't have to deal with them for another 5 years. You'll also be able to get a 5 year SIM. Not having to deal with those 2 government departments for another 5 years is worth all the blood and tears now.

What I'd do to not have to deal with immigration for 5 years and get 5 year Driver's Licence would be a dream! I really hope there is a way around this (and strongly considering speaking to an agent to see if they can get it and how much it would cost). All these years, we've been getting all the KITAS' ourselves, everything has always been smooth and straight forward, but the KITAP has always been an issue. Fingers crossed we can come up with a solution without using an expensive agent! Thanks for all your help, much appreciated

 

[Fred2]

What they are asking for is... That your government recognise that you are married. The same as the Australian embassy dose. It is a letter stating that your marriage certificate in Indonesia is Accepted by your Government. Your embassy would know what to write and you just need to show your certificate and sign that the statement is true.

 

[begonia]

Sorry I don't really understand what means Canada or Australia don't register foreigners marriages, please could somebody explain this for me? so if you are legally married here and like in your case you are from Canada, that means you in Canada are single? I mean if they don't register your marriage on the embassy, what is your status in Canada?
In my case it was easy and I though in all the countries it was the same, after I marriage here I registered the marriage in my embassy and when I went to my country I registered as well there and I have the family book with my indonesian husband name and our child on the book.

 

[Natasha]

What they are asking for is... That your government recognise that you are married. The same as the Australian embassy dose. It is a letter stating that your marriage certificate in Indonesia is Accepted by your Government. Your embassy would know what to write and you just need to show your certificate and sign that the statement is true.

Unfortunately my government won't write a formal letter stating that they recognize my marriage. I sent them the letter that Australia issued, but they won't issue a similar letter. They will only issue a letter in lieu of non-impediment of marriage, which just states I'm not married in Canada, and we can write a statue declaration in front of them stating we are married and they can apply a wet seal as a witness, but they would also put a "non-validation stamp" which would state that they can't validate if the contents are true.

 

[Natasha]

Sorry I don't really understand what means Canada or Australia don't register foreigners marriages, please could somebody explain this for me? so if you are legally married here and like in your case you are from Canada, that means you in Canada are single? I mean if they don't register your marriage on the embassy, what is your status in Canada?
In my case it was easy and I though in all the countries it was the same, after I marriage here I registered the marriage in my embassy and when I went to my country I registered as well there and I have the family book with my indonesian husband name and our child on the book.

What it means in my situation as a Canadian, the Canadian government automatically recognizes foreign marriages and doesn't register them - meaning, if the marriage is considered legal in Indonesia, it's considered legal by Canada and no further paper work or registration needs to be made. If I'm married in Indonesia, I'm considered married in Canada.

 

[davita]

There seems something strange about this request from Immigration.

From what I understand you were married in Indonesia and it's Indonesian Immigration that will not recognize their own marriage certificate. You need to really clarify if true...demand to see a supervisor or somebody higher up the chain of command in Imigrasi as I suspect someone is just playing with you.

What does it matter if you have, or haven't, a foreign certificate. Canada recognizes your marriage in RI but Indonesian Immigration doesn't...that's absurd.

My wife and I were married in Hong Kong. Canada, where we are citizens, accepts we are married without any Canadian certificates and Indonesia has issued us Kitaps by just showing our Hong Kong marriage certificate.

 

[DenpasarHouse]

I mean if they don't register your marriage on the embassy, what is your status in Canada?

I won't speak for Canada, but Australia will not allow you to register your overseas marriage even if you want to. Australia will recognise any marriage that was lawfully obtained in another country and will also accept the certificate of said marriage as valid proof.

Technically, there's nothing stopping me going back to Australia and getting married again. I would be committing the crime of bigamy, but there would be no way for them to catch me out. I suppose it would only come up if your overseas spouse made a complaint against you.

I'm not 100% sure about this but because Australia doesn't have a national identity card(e.g. KTP) or Family Card(i.e. the KK), there's no one place where your status is listed as single or married. If you marry in Australia, it's definitely registered with your states' Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages, but as far as I know this is not cross referenced by the other government departments. Each government department would have you status separately listed according to whatever you claimed were your circumstances.

For example, every year on your tax return you need to state how many days of the year you were married or in a de facto relationship.

To be fair to the Indonesian Immigration department, this really is a bit weird. I can understand why they don't really believe it.

 

[begonia]

ok, clear now, thanks a lot for the explications! aduhhhh yap you are right, doesn't make sense, they are asking you for something you don't need to do, I guess they may not make difference and treat all the countries equal right? I mean like some countries you can registered your marriage like my country and some countries you not need, but seems simple, if you are telling them you are from a country you not need to registered your marriage because is already recognise should be enough, or even they should know!!!
They should ask for the registration from the countries you can register it not from all the countries if there is some you not need to registered! tidak masuk akal!
Indonesia is full of surprises, one after another.....

 

[Natasha]

There seems something strange about this request from Immigration.

From what I understand you were married in Indonesia and it's Indonesian Immigration that will not recognize their own marriage certificate. You need to really clarify if true...demand to see a supervisor or somebody higher up the chain of command in Imigrasi as I suspect someone is just playing with you.

What does it matter if you have, or haven't, a foreign certificate. Canada recognizes your marriage in RI but Indonesian Immigration doesn't...that's absurd.

My wife and I were married in Hong Kong. Canada, where we are citizens, accepts we are married without any Canadian certificates and Indonesia has issued us Kitaps by just showing our Hong Kong marriage certificate.

Can I ask if you used an agent to get KITAP or did you apply yourself at immigration?

We've checked a few Indonesian immigration websites and no where does it state you need to register or get a letter from home country recognizing your Indonesian marriage, only lists that you need Indonesian marriage certificate and letter of non-impediment (which we have).

The person we are dealing with is a higher up immigration official. We've been trying for a few years to get KITAP but since my husband's KTP & KK are from Karangasem and we live in Seminyak, immigration won't process our application because we don't live at the address on his KTP & KK. We've tried numerous times to move the KTP & KK to Seminyak where we live, but because we don't own the land (we rent), they won't issue him KTP or KK (other parts of Bali will issue KTP & KK if you rent, but only in Badung Regency you must own the land/home to be allow to get ID. My husband's KIPEM has our home address and so does my Domisili, but the KTP & KK have Karangasem address).

We were recently introduced by a friend to this senior immigration official who we explained this KTP / KK address problem to. He said he could help get our KITAP application processed, but when we brought the application and documents to him, he said we needed a Canadian marriage registration certificate or stamp from Canadian government recognizing our Indonesian marriage (and unfortunately Canada won't issue that).

So our problem is everyone is telling us we need different things! We feel very fortunate to have this senior immigration official helping us, but unfortunately I can't get this stamp or document from the Canadian embassy that he's asking for.

 

[davita]

Thanks for the explanation Natasha...I got that from your previous posts and find the reason ridiculous. My gut feeling is someone is trying to get money from you and maybe not genuine in helping.

You DO have a problem with your spouse not living at his KTP address and he should rectify that notwithstanding. I've not heard of the need to own property to get a KTP but know many Indonesians who don't own and have KTP's....so cannot help there. I'd suggest you might try your luck in Singeraja Imigrasi if Karangasem comes under their authority....at least then the KTP wouldn't be a problem and you could maybe work your Kitap from their office.

My wife (Indonesian born but Canadian citizen) and I are both on Retirement Kitap which mandates using an agent. I'd ask any agent to help and listen to their advice and, if cost was reasonable, get them to apply for you. At least they may provide better info than I can.
Good luck.

 

[DenpasarHouse]

. . . but unfortunately I can't get this stamp or document from the Canadian embassy that he's asking for.

IMHO, I wouldn't be too worried. All he really wants is a document - any document - so that he can tick the box off on his form. I'm 99% sure he won't even read it. Just get the document from your embassy as you described above and you'll most likely be fine.

 

[Natasha]

Thanks for the explanation Natasha...I got that from your previous posts and find the reason ridiculous. My gut feeling is someone is trying to get money from you and maybe not genuine in helping.

You DO have a problem with your spouse not living at his KTP address and he should rectify that notwithstanding. I've not heard of the need to own property to get a KTP but know many Indonesians who don't own and have KTP's....so cannot help there. I'd suggest you might try your luck in Singeraja Imigrasi if Karangasem comes under their authority....at least then the KTP wouldn't be a problem and you could maybe work your Kitap from their office.

My wife (Indonesian born but Canadian citizen) and I are both on Retirement Kitap which mandates using an agent. I'd ask any agent to help and listen to their advice and, if cost was reasonable, get them to apply for you. At least they may provide better info than I can.
Good luck.

Thanks Davita. The KTP / KK address issue is a mess. It's only in Badung Regency that they no longer issue KTP without owning the land, anywhere else in Bali my husband can get KTP. And using his KTP / KK, we'd have to apply at Imigrasi in Singaraja, but because we don't live at the address in Karangasem, we can't do the KITAP interview there, and we already asked if we could do the interview where we do reside, or even at immigration, and the answer is no. Our only option is to either buy land/home and get KTP at the address, or move to another part of Bali where they easily issue KTP without owning the land.

And yes, money always comes into play. The immigration official hasn't mentioned anything about money... yet! So we'll see.

I'll also speak around to see if an agent can help and what the cost is.

 

[davita]

Natasha...I find it hard to swallow that only Badung says you must be a property owner to have a KTP. What happens when it comes to voting time...it will deprive him of his right to vote and that doesn't make sense...even for Indonesia.

I'll ask my agent what is the rule in Badung....and also see if I can ask our notary. If possible, can you post where you found this rule is promulgated?

 

[Natasha]

Natasha...I find it hard to swallow that only Badung says you must be a property owner to have a KTP. What happens when it comes to voting time...it will deprive him of his right to vote and that doesn't make sense...even for Indonesia.

I'll ask my agent what is the rule in Badung....and also see if I can ask our notary. If possible, can you post where you found this rule is promulgated?

We've spoken to two Banjars and one agent - all say no KTP in Badung without owning land. One Banjar did say we can be added to a family member's KK in Badung and get the KTP that way, but it wouldn't help us because we need to be living at that home to have the KITAP interview. Pretty much we've been living at the same house in Kerobokan for 6 years, and they won't issue the KTP & KK, and an agent in this area said she can't help either.

My husband always has to go to Karangasem to vote.

If your agent can get him KTP & KK in this area, we'd love to be connected to him/her!!

 

[davita]

Sorry.... double post that didn't enter first time....then appeared some 15 minutes later. seems to be some delay in activity on this forum/thread...or my computer.

 

[davita]

My husband always has to go to Karangasem to vote.

He can vote where he doesn't live but cannot sponsor you because he doesn't live there....what a joke! Maybe time to sponsor his visa and go back to Canada.

Your info has added interest. I've been told it is mandatory for Kitap holders to have a KTP-OA. I don't because the issue of e-KTP to Indonesians, prior to the forthcoming elections, is is chaos. However, I live in Badung and don't own property because I'm not allowed...so going to be interesting when I do apply.

I'll check with my contacts and post any results.

 

[Natasha]

He can vote where he doesn't live but cannot sponsor your Kitap because that's not where he lives....time to get him a visa and go back to Canada.

You have perked my interest because I've been told it is mandatory for Kitap holders to have a KTP OA. I don't have one yet as the e-KTP is in such a shambles but your info appears I cannot get one as I live in Badung and don't own any property....because I'm not allowed.

I'll check my contacts and get back with any results.

Great points! I have a feeling the KTP rules are different for Indonesians than foreigners. For example, the senior immigration official that's helping us, asked us both to get Domisili where we live, along with my husband renewing his KIPEM issued in Badung so he can present our case to higher up immigration officials in Jakarta that we live in Kerobokan, but can't get KTP & KK in this area cause we don't own land.

When we went to get Domisili, they issued me one (without an expiry date) but refused to issue one to my husband, stating his KIPEM is stronger than Domisili and he doesn't need it (even though immigration told him he did).

As for you as a foreigner, I have a feeling your Domicili & KITAP will be enough for your KTP OA. Your KITAP sponsor is an agent not family, so obviously you wouldn't be on his KTP / KK like I am on my husband's, and therefore where ever you live, whether you own it or rent it, is your official home address.

 

[tel522]

ya thats the rule no property ownership no ktp , crazy but true !, just recently in nusa dua the banjar have changed the ruling , proof of residence for 5 years ie rental contract they will issue a ktp .

 

[davita]

As for you as a foreigner, I have a feeling your Domicili & KITAP will be enough for your KTP OA. Your KITAP sponsor is an agent not family, so obviously you wouldn't be on his KTP / KK like I am on my husband's, and therefore where ever you live, whether you own it or rent it, is your official home address.

If true then also doesn't make sense... I can never be on someones KTP as that is a personal ID card.
A KK is a family document of who lives in the household...that's different and not mandatory. My wife was on her mother's KK for over 30 years while she lived abroad. When we returned to Indonesia I suggested it should be updated to avoid RI bureaucrats....and open possible ways for them to attack us.

I understood Kipem in Bali is for seasonal workers like my Javanese driver. He lives near Surabaya but works for us in Bali so he gets a Kipem instead of a Bali KTP...why would your husband need one if he has a Bali KTP?