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KITAP help?

Discussion in 'Bali Visa Questions and Answers' started by Natasha, Jan 18, 2017.

  1. Natasha

    Natasha Member

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    This might be a long shot, but I was wondering if anyone here can offer me some advice.

    Pretty I've been on a family KITAS for a few years and in recent years been trying to move over to a KITAP. The problem we keep running into is we live in Kerobokan (at a rental), and my husband's KTP & KK uses his family address in Karangasam. We were told to move the KTP and KK to Kerobokan where we live, but in the south of Bali, we've been told you must own the land in order to use the address on your KTP & KK (which we don't - we've been renting the same house for almost 6 years, but don't own it).

    So pretty much my husband's KIPEM & my Domicili use our address where we live in Kerobokan, but his KTP & KK use his family address in Karangasam. We are told by immigration that all addresses must be the same, and we must live at the address on the KTP because that is where they will do the interview for KIPEM. Every year we try again to apply, and every year we're told the same thing. I've also been told by immigration that there's a limit to how long I can continue being on KITAS (I'll be on my 5th one this year) and eventually we need to sort this out.

    Recently we were connected to a senior immigration official that was sympathetic to our situation and told my husband to get a Domicili certificate stating he lives at our home in Kerobokan, and once we have that to give him all the documents and he'd file our application for us. We asked our landowner to get the Domicili for my husband, but when he tried the office told him my husband already has KIPEM with that address, and the KIPEM carries more weight/more importance than a Domicili, and they wouldn't issue it (they issued one for me, the foreigner, but not my husband, the Indonesian).

    This whole situation is terribly frustrating. Does anyone here have any experience or suggestions of what we can do? All these years we've done all the visas ourselves, but I am starting to consider speaking to an agent to see if they can help us get the KITAP (and I'm not even sure they could).
     
  2. Mark

    Mark Active Member

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    Others will no doubt give better advice to solve your problem, but I can say that the above information is nonsense. Tens of millions of Indonesians have a KTP and KK at addresses where they rent - there is no special rule for 'South Bali'. As for the domisili cert, this sounds like a correct approach / advice, but don't rely on the landlord to get it for you (I don't even know how he could do this). My understanding is that you need to get a letter from the banjar confirming your residence (they may wish to see your lease), which must then be taken to the catatan sipil in your region to get the domisili cert. Good luck.
     
  3. DenpasarHouse

    DenpasarHouse Active Member

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    If this is true (I'm highly sceptical that it is), then it's only true for the Badung Regency. We live in Denpasar and had no problem changing my wife's KTP to our rental address and subsequently getting our KK, and my KITAP, assigned to it as well.

    Sorry if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that you're not the one doing the organising and speaking to the officials yourself. I only mention it because every time I sent my wife to organise something by herself there was always some sort of obstacle or misunderstanding that could've been sorted out straight away if I'd been there.

    For example, don't send your landlord to get the certificate of Domisili. He's not really going to explain or press your case, he'll accept whatever the officer tells him. You need to go in with your husband and explain why you need it. A lot of the time an officer just needs a nudge to actually ask his/her superior what the rules actually are rather than what the officer thinks they are.

    If they still refuse, you should ask for them to put the refusal in writing so that you can pass that on to your contact in the Immigration office. Ask nicely though, it shouldn't really be a problem if you tell them why you need it.
     
  4. spicyayam

    spicyayam Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I don't know the answer to your question, but I can sympathize with your situation. DenpasarHouse has given some good suggestions. I think you need to be a little persistent sometimes. I am sure there are many in your situation and have gotten around it. It's not fair that you can use a KITAP and this kinds of minor problems all seem to go away. Agents though are very expensive for KITAP. Maybe just go to an agent's office and see if you can find someone friendly and get some advice without having to do the whole application through them.
     
  5. Natasha

    Natasha Member

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    Thank you for this info, I really appreciate it.

    May I ask when you got the KK & KTP at your rental address? We were told that the rules have changed for either Badung Regency or the whole of Denpasar area about a year or two ago, that you must own the land in order to get KK & KTP (any other part of Bali it's easy to get KK & KTP, but certain parts of south Bali, no). When we told immigration this, they were aware of it and had no solution.

    You've made a great point that we need to go ourselves to speak to the Banjar and Domisili office and explain the situation. We went through the landowner because we've been living here for so many years, he wanted to help, and we figured he's well connected to the Banjar and community that it would make it easier to get the needed documents (which unfortunately didn't help).

    At one point we even contacted an agent to see if she could get the KK & KTP for us here in Kerobokan, and she too said it was impossible.

    Following your advice, we'll definitely go speak to the officials ourselves and hopefully something can be done.

    I'll keep you posted!

    Thank you :)
     
  6. DenpasarHouse

    DenpasarHouse Active Member

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    This was in 2013, so the rules may have changed since then.

    That's good. The Chinese may have invented "Chinese Whispers" but the Indonesians perfected it. Don't let anyone get between you and the source of information. To be frank, that includes your husband. You're going to have to be one that makes sure everything is correct. Don't leave an office without sitting down and double checking the documents they've just given you.

    I had a good example of this only 1/2 hour ago. We had officers from the local government checking who owns what and the details of the buildings. I told him that we haven't paid the land tax since we bought the land, he opened the documents, pointed at the first date that he saw and said "OK, so since that year then". "No Pak, since the sale date that's clearly written here if you cared to read it. FFS man it's your effing job to know this stuff, not mine." (Of course, I said none of this, I just politely pointed out the correct date.)

    Anyway, you've just got to cut them off at the pass before they get too far along with their mistakes.

    In my opinion, agents just add an extra layer of cost and confusion.
     
  7. Fred2

    Fred2 Member

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    Thats the trouble with Bali, They make there own rules.
    Immigration ask me to change after 4 years, So on the 5 kitas We converted to Kitap.
    We had some problems as in no one new what to do. Down stairs office said you need to go to a different Immigration office (head office) We filled out the paper work to move our file and when we went up stairs they said that all your Kitas have been done in this office so no problem to do your kitap with us.
    So back down stairs and explained what was said upstairs and we started our paper work.
    Our address on our paper work is not were we live, when Immigration wanted to come and take photos, we ask the owner if it was ok for immigration to come around.
    When Immigration came around they looked and said you don't live here, we explained that we just moved as we are building a new home somewhere else, no problems took some happy snaps and all smiles.
    My wife is always worried about immigration because they think they know everything and for extra money anything can be done. I'am always polite, know most of the rules and let them know if its a problem, I will just check with Immigration in Jakarta. Then they change there mind and say that because we are in Surabaya the information has not travel here yet or we have a seminar on that next month. You need to push a little harder and ask to see the Boss, sometime they know whats going on.
     
  8. balibule

    balibule Active Member

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    This is the paperwork required I have been told;

    Passport asli
    Buku Biru asli
    Kitas asli
    Permohonan alih sponsor asli
    Surat Kuasa asli
    Surat jaminan asli
    Integarisi asli
    Permohonan kitap asli
    Ktp istri asli
    Kk scan asli
    Buku nikah di Indonesia asli
    Buku nikah di luar negeri asli
    Surat keterangan tempat tinggal / domisili asli
     
  9. Natasha

    Natasha Member

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    We went to visit our contact at immigration today with our full KITAP application. He said he could help us with our KITAP application even though my husbands KTP & KK are using Karangasam address, and KIPEM & Domicili using Seminyak address (where we live), but he said we were missing a marriage registration certificate from my country (Canada). We were married in Indonesia, have a letter of non-impediment from Canadian Embassy, and an Indonesian Marriage Certificate (which was included in our application), but this is the first time we've been asked for a certificate recognizing our Indonesian marriage from the Canadian government (I've been on spouse sponsored KITAS for 4 years, never been asked for this). I remembered before getting married asking the Canadian government if I needed to register my overseas marriage with the Canadian government and they said no, the Indonesian Marriage Certificate is sufficient. But, now this Immigration official is asking for some sort of marriage certificate or document from Canadian government, even though we're married in Indonesia. I was wondering if anyone else has been asked for this type of document? Or was issued such a document from their country? I already emailed the Canadian Embassy and awaiting their response...
     
  10. balibule

    balibule Active Member

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    I had to legalize my wedding certificate. I got it translated from Indonesian to English and then had my Embassy verify and put stamps and signatures on it. If you are good with editing you could probably do it yourself as long as it looks somewhat legitimate ;-)
     
  11. Natasha

    Natasha Member

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    THANK YOU so much! This is what I needed to hear! The immigration official said we needed to get stamps on our marriage certificate but wasn't very clear. Now I have a better idea what I'm asking the Canadian Embassy for. Would you mind showing me a photo of what your legalized wedding certificate looks like so I have a better idea of what the format is? (if you don't mind, let me know, and I'll pm you my email address to send it to me). Thank you so much, I really appreciate this! :)
     
    #11 Natasha, Jan 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
  12. DenpasarHouse

    DenpasarHouse Active Member

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    Yep.

    Australia recognises foreign marriage certificates and it's not needed, nor even possible, to register foreign marriages. Even though they must hear that a lot, I don't think the Indonesian immigration office actually believes that to be true so they still require a document saying you've registered your marriage in your home country. This is exasperating because they're asking for something that can't actually be obtained!

    Anyway, it turns out all you need to do is go to your consulate/embassy explain the situation and they'll issue you a document very similar to the 'No Impediment to Marriage' document. Even though it's in English, I didn't need to get it translated.

    Here's an example:
    Daftar Pernikahan Di Australia-SafeForWeb.jpg
     
  13. DenpasarHouse

    DenpasarHouse Active Member

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    I don't think you need to get stamps or an official translation of you wedding certificate. Indonesian wedding certificates are written in both Indonesian and English, or at least mine is. It's possible balibule had to do this because his home country actually requires/allows foreign marriages to be registered.

    Where are you from balibule? The UK? It looks like they stopped doing this in 2014: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...istry-service-discontinued-for-overseas-brits
     
  14. Natasha

    Natasha Member

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    This is GREAT, thank you so much! The immigration official was quite surprised we've been getting KITAS all these years without it. But like you said, many countries (including Canada) don't register overseas marriages (and perhaps the officials who were processing my KITAS all these years knew that). I really appreciate you sharing the letter issued by the Australian Embassy, this will help if the Canadian Embassy has any question (but it now sounds to me that like the certificate of non-impediment, it's a regularly requested document). Fingers crossed we can get this processed quickly and actually be on our way to getting the KITAP!
     
  15. balibule

    balibule Active Member

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    I did my paperwork in 2008. I am not from the UK. The ENG/IND wedding certificate you mention is the KUTIPAN AKTA PERKAWINAN. This wasn't sufficient and I had to get the SALINAN AKTA PERKAWINAN. The first certificate (Kutipan) is a wall certificate. The second certificate (salinan) is the full written certificate which can be translated. They never give you the Salinan unless you specifically ask for it.

    This is a link to a screenshot from two of the stamps; Attention Required! | CloudFlare

    You need to ask your Embassy what they need as it may be different for you.
     
  16. DenpasarHouse

    DenpasarHouse Active Member

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    Huh. Do people really put these up on the wall? How strange.

    Thanks, I'd never heard of that certificate before.
     
  17. balibule

    balibule Active Member

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    I meant to say that it looks as a wall certificate. Not sure if anyone does put it up. The Salinan Lengkap seems to be be a more standard wedding certificate what you would expect to get overseas as well.
     
  18. Natasha

    Natasha Member

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    I sent your letter to the Canadian Embassy last week to see if they could issue me a similar letter. I heard back from them today, and unfortunately they won't issue me a letter. They said they could issue me another letter in lieu of Certificate of Non-Impediment of Marriage (which I already have, and not sure how having a second one would help!), or, they said I could prepare a letter of statutory declaration which I could sign in front of Canadian Embassy officials, but they would put a non-validation stamp on it with a Canadian wet seal. I'm not really familiar with legal documents and stamps, but I'd think a "non-validation stamp" would defeat the purpose (I asked them to clarify what exactly that non-validation stamp means, but I have a feeling it means the Canadian wet seal confirms I signed the document in front of the Canadian Embassy officials, but the non-validation stamp states they are not validating the contents of the declaration). I also asked them if instead, they could stamp my Marriage Certificate. Not sure what else I can do in this situation....Anyone have any suggestions...
     
  19. DenpasarHouse

    DenpasarHouse Active Member

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    Ah, that's unfortunate. Sorry to hear that it won't be so easy for you.

    When I was at the Immigration Department I was all set to debate the issue and before I was able to show the officer the Australian website that states that they don't register overseas marriages he pulled out an example letter of what he was after (which was the same as the one I showed you).

    Is it possible to go back to the Immigration department and ask for an example of the required document from a previous Canadian's KITAP application?
     
  20. Natasha

    Natasha Member

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    Ya, this is definitely not going so smoothly. We will go back to immigration, and good idea to ask what kind of document other Canadians used for their KITAP application. The immigration officer even said he was surprised I've been able to get KITAS all these years without it (so if I can't get KITAP, I hope I won't run into problems getting another KITAS).

    I will also ask immigration if they would accept a letter from the Canadian Embassy stating that they don't register foreign marriages (but recognize them as legal), and can't issue me the requested certificate or stamp. My husband, who's Indonesian, has a 5 year spouse sponsored visa to stay in Canada, and our daughter has dual-citizenship - I think this is good supplementary proof Canada recognizes our marriage to be legal.
     
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