Bali Aquifers and Population increases....

[gilbert de jong]

It's no solution, but you asked if anyone was worried :icon_wink:
well I am not..
just saying...why is it always 'foreigners/expats that try to find a solution...what about the ozon layer hole, still there or did that hype just blew over, ice melting raising the waterlevels..did it stop melting or is it just not important anymore...I am not ignoring that these 'problems' are there or were there, I think mother earth will be just fine, maybe it needs to whipe out the human race first (earthquackes/tsunamis), but she will be okey :icon_e_smile:

 

[andrewbaker77]

I don't see this as the heavy handed foreigner trying to correct ways of locals. (And I agree that there is too much of that "we know better" mentality in just about every tourist destination around the world.) I see this as a basic math equation of supply and demand in desperate need of a solution better than a natural correction, as it's far from a naturally made problem.

And, like India (all major cities will be in water crisis in 2020, Yemen, it's capital will be the first capital in the world to go completely dry) Bali has a water crisis coming that will affect many aspects of life.

My guess is that self correction will come in the form of certain areas that are in trouble running dry and the population of those areas leaving, and leaving behind rows and rows of rotting villas.

But overall, the Balinese will as always stand strong.

 

[goldminer]

@goldminer, before you go all "!" on me.....

"The second cost is one of pollution. Removal of pure water from a salty source creates a concentrated waste stream called brine. Up to twice as salty as sea water, and often containing process chemicals such as chlorine, anti-scaling and anti-caking agents, this discharge can have a significant effect on marine life." (from the ecologist mag)

And besides, considering the time it takes to get a 1Kilometer road project approved I don't see a 100Billion dollar desal plant coming on line anytime soon.

There is "reject water" of course, but this only about 5% of the water used, and would not greatly affect marine life, if at all. In Western Australia there are at the moment 2, soon to be 3 large desal plants in operation. At the mine where i work, we have 2 smaller versions, using bore water from the ground that is 2000 times saltier than seawater, and this provides water for over 500 people. Reject water here is used in the process of goldmining.

Power is not a big problem driving these plants, solar energy can be used.
However, i do agree getting the projects up and running in Bali would be a problem.

 

[Fred2]

If you realy want to see how good a desal system works, look at the one they build at the Gold Coast:icon_evil:. Over price & with all the rain they have had, they don't need it as all the dams are full. Trouble is they can't turn it off & cost 10's of millons to run.
The western Australian govenment should be running the water from the ord river to perth to give all the people in the west water.:icon_mrgreen:

 

[goldminer]

If you realy want to see how good a desal system works, look at the one they build at the Gold Coast:icon_evil:. Over price & with all the rain they have had, they don't need it as all the dams are full. Trouble is they can't turn it off & cost 10's of millons to run.
The western Australian govenment should be running the water from the ord river to perth to give all the people in the west water.:icon_mrgreen:

Couldnt agree more about the Ord river, it was first spoken of 20 years ago , would be well and truely running by now.
Why cant they turn the Goldcoast de sal off Fred? Shouldnt be a problem.

 

[kiwi]

Interesting topic as I am in the water industry with commercial tanks.:icon_biggrin:
Fred 2 is correct the plant on the Gold Coast was poorly planned and executed project:icon_evil: but no one could have seen the rain returning like it did. WA on the other has ever decreasing rainfall and will rely on Desalination Plants, the lastest project will be expanded to twice it's capacity but this is really not an option for Bali
Brisbane had all rain water tanks removed many years back only to turn around and build them ito the design codes. Rainwater tanks would be a real option in Bali but strict controls will be required for mossie control but also you will have the problem of the area used for a decent tanks. So rainwater catchment could be useful but not the complete answer.
Happy to price up tanks if anyone requires one.:icon_mrgreen:

 

[goldminer]

Interesting topic as I am in the water industry with commercial tanks.:icon_biggrin:
Fred 2 is correct the plant on the Gold Coast was poorly planned and executed project:icon_evil: but no one could have seen the rain returning like it did. WA on the other has ever decreasing rainfall and will rely on Desalination Plants, the lastest project will be expanded to twice it's capacity but this is really not an option for Bali
Brisbane had all rain water tanks removed many years back only to turn around and build them ito the design codes. Rainwater tanks would be a real option in Bali but strict controls will be required for mossie control but also you will have the problem of the area used for a decent tanks. So rainwater catchment could be useful but not the complete answer.
Happy to price up tanks if anyone requires one.:icon_mrgreen:

I still am waiting for an answer to as why de sal plants are not suitable for Bali.

 

[Fred2]

If gold coast plant was shut down, I think the government said about 23mill to restart it & so my water rates just keep going up.
Now lets look at Bali, It would cost a lot of money to build a large plant, who's paying????
To maintain anything that has salt water running through it would be expensive, so can anybody tell me anything run by the Indonesia government that is maintained properly???:icon_mrgreen:

 

[ronb]

De sal plants have been discussed on here before Ron, and having had quite a bit of experience with them, am interested why you think they cannot be part of the solution?

Just the cost of water from a de-sal plant.

The energy required sets the base cost even if the capital cost of the plant was somehow a gift. From our previous discussion we figured it took at east 5 KW hr for 1 cubic metre of water and the cost of electricity in Indonesia is at least Rp1,500 per KW hr (and that's without a carbon tax). So the cubic metre costs at least Rp7,500 - but I reckon it's probably a good bit more than that. So a 10-fold increase, or more, on current PDAM charges. When the economy grows enough to lift the basic income of most families considerably, maybe they can afford this - but not now.

So other approaches like encouraging rainwater, controls on groundwater use etc are more promising. Remember, that unlike West Australia, Bali is in a high rainfall zone.

 

[ronb]

..............
Fred 2 is correct the plant on the Gold Coast was poorly planned and executed project:icon_evil: but no one could have seen the rain returning like it did......................................

On the contrary, it was almost certain that such rains would return, the only thing that no-one could say for sure was when. Eastern Australia and Indonesia are both influenced by the El Nino Southern Oscillation patterns, and heavy rain come with the La Nina part of this oscillation. Currently we are in a La Nina, and last year's dry season in Bali was pretty wet. So far this year's dry is fairly wet as well.

 

[kiwi]

"I still am waiting for an answer to as why de sal plants are not suitable for Bali. "

While small operations such as the ones we supply to mine sites are not an issue a unit to supply Bali's domestic needs is a completely different story. The intital investement is huge and unless a return on investment can be seen in todays market it would make it a no go as there is no state government in Bali with enough income to cover it. While a small plant can go to solar a plant this size will require its own power supply and again I can't see the funds for that. And then there is the loction required which needs to be near the ocean which would again be a problem due to the way the Island has been allowed to develop. So unless Bill Gates decides to throw a billion at it it makes it not suitable for Bali

 

[goldminer]

We all seem to go back to the cost of a de sal plant. That is some thing that has to be overcome. Solar power on a large scale, not small domestic stuff would eleviate the power costs. As for construction, money is availble from overseas governments. Expats maintaining the plant would be needed for obvious reasons.

Fred, the biggest problem is with the membranes and salt, but with proper maintenence, easily managed.
Rainwater tanks will help the problem, but never stop it.

 

[andrewbaker77]

If Singapore wanted a desal plant, construction would begin tonight. As for this island.....

 

[gilbert de jong]

if singapore sees money in it..yes

 

[mariaandrobert]

Maybe a few more natural reservoirs need to be kept clean and tapped or dams built. I'm no expert but it seems the mountains catch plenty of moisture and that it just needs better conservation management than running it all needlessly into the ocean. Curtailing the influx from Java may help too! Gray water re-use, smaller swimming holes and higher prices all help conservation too!

 

[mariaandrobert]

Bali has significant rivers, high-country lakes, subak/irrigation canal infrastructure that can be better used for water distribution. High density populations surely provide enough wastewater to recycle as is being done more and more here in the U.S. (effluent to drinking conversion). The key is to get people to pee into a treatment plant rather than onto the sidewalk. That would solve more than one problem.

Understand water is a resource that naturely recycles itself. It never disappears though it may be easily re-located by mother nature.

 

[goldminer]

Maybe a few more natural reservoirs need to be kept clean and tapped or dams built. I'm no expert but it seems the mountains catch plenty of moisture and that it just needs better conservation management than running it all needlessly into the ocean. Curtailing the influx from Java may help too! Gray water re-use, smaller swimming holes and higher prices all help conservation too!

Good point, we actualy discussed dams and reservoirs at the Bali Pod meeting. A good option but again, would need to be maitained by expats :icon_wink:

 

[coltleader]

I'm not worried!