The Feminist Whisperer - Sunday Rant (on Tuesday)

Markit

Markit

Well-Known Member
Help me out here but over half of the population of this wonderful planet are women and let me say at the outset that I love you all because, if for no other reason, you smell good – what I’m trying to understand here is that with that kind of ratio what-the-feck is going on?

I mean, if you look around this beautiful island of the Gods (I’m reliably informed it used to be called “Island of Demons” but the marketing people got their hands on it - as usual….) you will see that the fair sex (can only have to do with hair color!) – women, are doing so much of the shite work here it really is a screaming tragedy.

I employ a construction team and their make up (male/female) is dictated by their boss. He is a very nice and possibly understanding granddad of a little girl that sometimes also works on the site in her school holidays.

Now, even this little girl, just as a reminder – the boss’ granddaughter, does nothing all day but carry stuff – from A to B, up and down, around over and thru. From 8 in the a.m. till 5 in the p.m. just like all the other women employed on my site and probably all of Bali and the rest of the 3rd world (and, to our shame, also some of the 1st) excepting possibly government employ.

My actual point to this rant is coming, keep with me please.

I was raised in the 60s and 70s by a reasonably intelligent English lady from a British working/middle class background in the good old United States of America – just to set the scene – and she (sorry but it was my mum) had a good life in America and enjoyed health care, food (no rationing, anyway) and raised 3 kids in the typical way. She made it clear to all 3 boys that women were easily as good as men, if not better. (think the smell of almonds mixed with marjoram) Sorry but I’m still setting the scene – if you want to go out for a smoke or something, feel free. The point was that we and they are equal and I will believe that till my dying day – as much as I would sometimes like to treat them/you differently, I can’t!

It’s just not possible for me to turn away or cast a blind eye to what goes on – be it here on Bali or anywhere else on the planet.

That is finally my point!

If you look around the Bali expat forums and community outlets (or all other Balinese “News” organs that I know) you will see that soft soup serial articles like “Doris does Denpasar” or some such shite has a following stretching back years! And tips on fashion or local ceremonial traditions are a dime a dozen. And “the girls” get quite exercised about some western man’s way of talking about his (yes HIS) wife or other “female” peeves are aired on a regular basis. Care of school aged children is talked about and “help the poor” and recycling plastics are regular themes. Is this as good as it can get?

If I landed on an island where all the men were treated like second class citizens and basically only good enough to carry heavy things – well, me personally I would start a fecking riot!

What do the women here do? Feck all, nothing….

By all means lets help the poor (mostly women) and do something for the kids too but here on Bali we have masses of unemployed western (rich?) women that want to do GOOD be it Tantric Healing, Yoga, Tai Chi or (snigger) “find” themselves!

Well, why don’t you help WOMEN here on Bali?

Is it me or what? You have female circumcision, complete live mummification called the hijab, yashmak or burka, and here on the Island of the Gods complete female relegation to the outer limits of life and all the girls are suddenly united. And silent.

“You want to chop off my daughter’s clitoris with a rusty can? Hell yes, let me hold her down!”

“You want to consign all the women of this country to menial,low paying and hard jobs and complete social meaninglessness? Why not, I have my Yoga lessons in a minute.”

“Mama I want to dress like my brother does because I’m hot and uncomfortable!” “How dare you even suggest it you shameless 12 year old slut. God hates the sight of your hair and knees.”

But lets save all the stupid, pest ridden, rabid dogs.

Where are the screams of injustice? The calls for change? Dare I suggest it – the NGOs or groups of outraged westerners looking to support or start local attempts at equality or justice?

Silence! Nothing out there…

If it was men getting shat on and abused I guarantee you blood would be flowing. Shame on you girls.

And to a much lesser degree – shame on us men for allowing it.

Markit
 
Markit - I hope you haven't mixed your drinks up. You're not drinking anti-termite chemicals, by any chance?

Some of your latest 'Sunday Rant' makes a little sense, but a lot doesn't.

I've never heard of female Balinese circumcision. And if you look closely, you might notice that male Balinese circumcision doesn't exist, either. I think you're confusing Bali (The Island of the Dogs), with islands like Java, heavily populated with Moslems. Even on Java, I'm not sure that female circumcision is all that common, (but I wouldn't be surprised). Banda Aceh, of course, is a totally different ball game, so to speak.
I employ a construction team and their make up (male/female) is dictated by their boss. He is a very nice and possibly understanding granddad of a little girl that sometimes also works on the site in her school holidays.
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It's quite possible that your 'construction team' comes from Java, or some other island outside of Bali.

It's very easy in Bali to think that a lot of Balinese men do sweet FA all day. Some of them woke up hours before sunrise, worked in rice fields, etc, and knocked-off. Some chase money from 'tourists', in all kinds of guises (cowboys, gigolos, guides, you name it). Many of the latter are married and have families to support.
Now, even this little girl, just as a reminder – the boss’ granddaughter, does nothing all day but carry stuff – from A to B, up and down, around over and thru. From 8 in the a.m. till 5 in the p.m. just like all the other women employed on my site and probably all of Bali and the rest of the 3rd world (and, to our shame, also some of the 1st) excepting possibly government employ.
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The 'little girl' you mention, who only carries stuff in her school holidays for you, might be pushing one of your morality/justice buttons. If that's some kind of a wake-up call, so be it.

The hard part becomes what to really do to make things better?

The 'easier' part is stop drinking too much rocket fuel, especially if it makes you write nonsense.

:roll:
 
Yea, not sure where you are getting the whole circumcision thing from. Balinese, neither male or female are generally circumcised. As JC said that happens in Java, the boys are circumcised at age 5 (I can't imagine being old enough to remember my own circumcision), and while it may not be as common of a practice anymore, most adult muslim women from Java that I meet who have spoken on the subject with me say that they are circumcised. These women were all born 18+ years ago, so the situation may be different now, although I can't say, I don't have those sort of talks with any girls under the age of 18.

As far as the way the women are treated in Bali, I think it all boils down to a cultural thing and one of those things best not to try to get yourself in the middle of. Who are we really to tell the Balinese how to live?

My 2 cents.
 
Markit:
I agree with your entire rant!~ It was both humorous, truthfull, and sad. Listen people, I believe Markit was referring to circumsion as it relates to Muslim girls; and all of the garb muslim girls and women must wear even though the weather is so darn hot. It infuriates me to see all the crap muslim girls, women wear in the name of Allah. Please!!!! I respect that people have their own cultures; however, if a group of ladies or girls do not adhere to the required dress code pertaining to their religion than.....why don't you all read what takes place in Ache, the West Bank, Afphaganistan, Saudi Arabia, Java, and outer regions of Indonesia. wake up and smell the stench people. Are you all dead and dumb and oblivious as to what goes on.... Brain dead perhaps? So your comments about what Markit said is truly a real eye opener in my eyes. Don't you all read internation press etc....

Markit, your analysis and depiction of young girls and women being used as donkeys and mules in the hot blazing Balinese sun stirs my blood to the boiling point. The individuals who commented previously only say, thats their culture. Dismiss the abuse, look the other way, do nothing, go to yoga, drink a beer, have a massage, find yourself, screw all the women and girls you can either physically, mentally or both. You get the picture people. You guys and gals who think this type of behavior is justified, acceptable, and should continue to go on for centuries, never would have thought a women should vote, own property, go to school, learn to read, pursue a career, choose whom to marry, when to get pregnate, the list goes on and on. Furthermore, slavery fits your just scenario as to countries cultures, rules and acceptable protocal. As in Rome do as the Romans.

Markit, if you truly wrote your rant as how you honestly feel regarding the female race as work horses, and the muslim woman forced to dress with head gear and clothes to boot that could cause some to have heat stroke in the blazing sun...maybe you should start a movement in Bali to do something about the injustices.
 
JUDY said:
You guys and gals who think this type of behavior is justified, acceptable, and should continue to go on for centuries, never would have thought a women should vote, own property, go to school, learn to read, pursue a career, choose whom to marry, when to get pregnate, the list goes on and on. Furthermore, slavery fits your just scenario as to countries cultures, rules and acceptable protocal. As in Rome do as the Romans.
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That is putting words in my mouth, I never said anything like that. Of course I think women should have the right to vote and own property etc. (which they can do all of those things that you said here in Bali). My only point was that the Balinese have a very complicated culture, and one that they believe in strongly. Part of their culture involves the roles of certain people whether that may boil down to age, caste, family status or even sex. I know Bali isn't without it's problems, but some problems are their problems to deal with on their own. How would you feel if a foreigner walked into your country and started telling you the way you and all your friends and family live was wrong and that you should change.

One more thing as well that makes me a bit confused. People talk about equal rights for women, which is a theory that I can agree with fully. The same people advocating equal rights though will often complain when for instance, women have to work in the sun carrying heavy objects. I am sure there are men on the site carrying things as well (Markit can correct me if I'm wrong). In the end equal is equal, and with equal rights comes equal responsibility.
 
Love the screed (as in I agree), M.

However---

Not to make any excuses, but I believe oppression of the fairer sex is institutionalized in Hinduism(is that even a word?). Western-style "progress" and the time-scales associated with that notion may not apply in the way you (and I) might like.
 
very well written as always markit...
when I first saw women working/slaving in construction, i too was amazed..
amazed, wondering why the hell are they doing that? now I know, and it's quite simple...no education, cant read or write..that makes it hard to find a job right, it's already hard even with a diploma, let alone if one cant read or write. Hence go into construction, since the job garbage(wo)man is not available.
as for the religious stuff, I cant say if it's right or wrong...ofcourse from a western point of view (mine too) it's strange to 'hide' the natural beauty of a woman, wrapped up in a burka.
ofcourse there are women who are somewhat forced into this, but an equal if not not more part of the women choose for this life..for whatever reason.
the whole circumcizing thing, is in my mind just wrong... I've been told that they do that, because the woman is not allowed to enjoy the sexual intercourse...now a 'funny' explanation can be, that having sex with a circumsized woman who doesn't reach a climax, the man doesn't feel bad about his performance, but it's because the clit has been removed. Don't mean any disrespect to women or the islam man...just trying to find the reason behind the reason, if ya know what I mean?


judy wrote : ""maybe you should start a movement in Bali to do something about the injustices.""

from what I get from your post, is that your feelings about it are even stronger then markits, so maybe you start a movement..being a woman yourself, that would make more sense then a guy jumping the fences, doesn't it?

cali wrote : ""In the end equal is equal, and with equal rights comes equal responsibility.""

very well said, and I agree with that statement a 100%.
 
Thanks Judy - you understood. Why am I not surprised that a woman would?

My main purpose in writing it was not so much to get it off my chest (that's what a rant is for, or?) but to try and galvanize some of the women who ghost around the forum into doing something.

As Gil wrote, it aint a man's place to go telling women what to do, particularly when it comes to morals and religion.

Probably a hopeless cause... but if I can animate just one western lady away from her NGO into really doing something for the girls here then I will be happy.

I just don't understand why they aren't marching already.... :(
 
Gil writes,

the whole circumcizing thing, is in my mind just wrong... I've been told that they do that, because the woman is not allowed to enjoy the sexual intercourse...
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Actually, what I have heard often is that it is a man's mean to control a woman's sexuality, so she does not have "ants in their pants" and fools around.

As for women circumcision, like for men, I feel it's another barbaric custom which should be abolished. However, I am absolutely aginst Judi's suggestion that foreigners should lead in any way a campaign against it, in Bali (if it exists, but I know it does not, except maybe in the Balinese Moslem mountain villages, in North Bali), or in any other country. As a foreigner (a guest) in any country, it is rather rude and arrogant to tell the natives how to live, think, and behave. Do it in your own country and hope it will spread eventually to reach the countries where the pactice is more common. :mrgreen:
 
tintin said:
Gil writes,

the whole circumcising thing, is in my mind just wrong. quote]
As for women circumcision, like for men, I feel it's another barbaric custom which should be abolished. However, I am absolutely against Judi's suggestion that foreigners should lead in any way a campaign against it, in Bali (if it exists, but I know it does not, except maybe in the Balinese Moslem mountain villages, in North Bali), or in any other country. As a foreigner (a guest) in any country, it is rather rude and arrogant to tell the natives how to live, think, and behave. Do it in your own country and hope it will spread eventually to reach the countries where the practice is more common.:
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Totally agree Tin Tin except for the 'ants in the pants" remark.

From my experience Ache is the only province that has Shar’ia Law enacted.

As for the rest of Indonesia the first to adopt Islam did so in the eleventh century. By the end of the 13th century, Islam had been established in North Sumatra and so it slowly advanced until the end of the 16th century. Until that time only Bali was Hindu and the outer islands remained largely animist but adopted Islam and to a lesser extent Christianity in the 17th and 18th century.

Even though most of Indonesia is Muslim they still retain part of their culture and beliefs prior to conversion. This includes Africa who practiced female circumcision. I believe a lot of people think the female circumcision is a practice of Islam but I do not believe it is. I believe it comes from their culture and practices before being converted. (I will stand corrected.) I find speaking to any Indonesian about sex and anything private very hard because they are very private people. My husband did not know what it meant. He is Indonesian and Muslim. I asked him before we married if there were any rituals regarding being converted. He said circumcision for men and I asked about women and he was horrified. I read in Wikipedia that in Indonesia the practice is not uncommon wmong the country’s rural women but usually involves the pricking of blood release. Sometimes the procedures are merely symbolic and no actual cutting is done.

As for the burkas, many women I know do this for their husband as they do not want any man seeing their beauty except their husbands. Most do wear headscarf’s, and the older ones do not let their hair show. Where we live it is a mixture of all types of dress and I see people and kids all mixing normally all in different dress.

As for the boss’s grand-daughter, at least he is teaching her work ethics. I do not think you mentioned her age forgive me if I am wrong but I think it is better to teach her - you have to work to eat. I would hope as her grandfather he would make sure she is not overdoing it but as a guest in their country what can you do.
 
tintin said:
Next time, could you also include an Executive Summary?
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You'll want Cliff notes next.

I'm about to hand in my Balipod driving license!

Are you people all "challenged" in new-speak, in old "idiots"? I was not talking about female circumcision in Bali or wearing Burkas in Seminiak or female work ethic in Karangasem!!!!

I really, really wonder what kind of lives many of you have, not to mention brains :evil:

For fecks sake don't you get it? It doesn't matter in the least if there is only one little girl on the whole fecking planet that has her genitals mutilated for the sake of religion, misguided sexuality or just cause it's 2 for 1 day.

It is an abomination and any and all right-thinking people of this planet should do something. Even if it's just saying something on a forum to keep the protest alive and inform some of the "challenged" denizens here that it does actually happen.

It doesn't matter if only one woman on the whole fecking planet has to hide her face because of religion, misguided sexuality or just cause it's fecking 2 for 1 day.

It's wrong people, WRONG.

We are all members of the same race of animals and we have the right, no, duty to stop idiocy in it's tracks - wherever we find it - even here! Don't give me the "we are guests in this country" bullshite. All misguided governments/mullahs/religions are guests on our fecking planet!
 
I just want to add something that popped into my head and make me think of this thread last night while with my Balinese friends.

We were all drinking arak at my friend's place, there was probably 10-15 of us, and when the arak was finished of course it was time to buy a new bag of the stuff. You know who was told to go and buy the next bag and the Coca-Cola to mix it with? Not a woman, but the youngest kid who was just sort of hanging around in the area and not even drinking or really hanging out with us. He didn't seem offended to have to go and buy the arak for everyone, and there wasn't a second thought about, except for my own second thought, which was that is usually how it works in Bali.

The point boils down to, the Balinese have their own status system depending on age, caste, sex or whatever, and it works for them. I can understand the western mentality of wanting to change it, but I don't think they see a change is needed. Do they seem like unhappy people?
 
I am not at all surprised, I do this myself and give them a nice tip and they are very happy.
Ask me Mr when you need me again :p
 
lumumba said:
I am not at all surprised, I do this myself and give them a nice tip and they are very happy.
Ask me Mr when you need me again :p
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If you are implying that the older guys are tipping the young kid to go buy the arak, then sorry if my post was unclear. They usually don't get any money out of it, as they usually have to use change to buy peanuts or something. Just saying, it becomes the "job" of the youngest kid to do this in their community.
 
I just wrote this long long response and my f%%ing computer logged me out when I was ready to submitb; oh well, such is life!! Anyway, Markit I would love to begin a movement in Bali; however, currently, I am in Seattle. When I return will contact you to assist in the betterment of those less fortunate in this regard. (All issues mentioned) However, as far as women owning land in Bali; please! Women in Indonesia, Bali included, do not have the same rights as men. Far from it people. A women can only own land if she purchases it with her own dough, bread, dollars. Get the picture. She does not inherit property from the family(mother, father, grandparents, uncles, aunts) even if she is any only child. If the Gods or Allah shine on her head and allow her an occupation whereby she earns a ton of cash; then and only then can she purchase land in her NAME. Hence, people basically winning the lottery.

THEREFORE, FOR EVERYONES INFO WOMEN DO NOT HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS MEN IN INDONESIA WHEN IT COMES TO LAND OWNERSHIP.

Additionally, divorce is another law whereby woman are screwed in Indonesia. When a husband wants a second or third wife (maximum allowed by Indonesia law) the first wife must sign allowing the second or third wife passage into the household. However, if the first wife does not agree to the second or third marriage she must leave the household forfeiting the rights to her children. Oh yeah she really has a choice,"EITHER DO WHAT THE BASTARD WANTS OR LEAVE THE PREMISES AND YOUR CHILDREN FOREVER" Oh and I almost forgot all those of you on this forum who believe women have equal rights in Bali and Indonesia, she leaves with only her clothes. Nada, nothing. That really is just, come on guys you said they are equal.

I guess you ladies that believe accept the culture as is must be damm happy you were not born in Indonesia, unless of course you are a big star of some sort to allow you the freedom to buy land, homes, whatever and not be beholden to the male members in your family for your destiny. And the person who said great to teach the work ethic. Please! I assisted my father at his business growing up; but I was not sweating in the blazing sun for hours on end learning the "work ethic". You would adhere to the philosophy in countries including Indonesia where children work in gold mines, diamond mines, trash cities, (indonesia) l2 to l5 hours a day to make a buck. Oh yeah your comment, "at least they are learning a work ethic). Slavery is obviously no problem for you, because that's what it is.

Gilbert you agree 100% that equality means equal work, beautiful. Obviously, you both do not have a factual basis for the laws pertaining to women in Bali and Indonesia.
Gilbert you agree l00% :oops: I am shocked that you were so ignorant when it comes to Indonesian Law pertaining to land ownership, child custody, when it regards WOMEN EQUAL RIGHTS. TO NEVER BEING ALLOWED TO INHERIT LAND, OR ANYTHING ELSE IS APPALING. EVERYTHING GOES TO THE MALES.

This discussion just made me thankful that I was born in America. Indonesian women will have to do something about this last subject; foreigners definitely have no say in this fight. And as far as the women and children working in the blazing sun; well after speaking to Agung the concensis is:talk to the person, (male or female) and find out if they are merely doing it to survive or for the fun of it as Agung mentioned to me. OMG And if the person truly wishes to change their life and utilize the talents they possess or want to learn a new trade, then perhaps the asker can help that person to change their life not only for themself but for their family. As Gandi once said "change yourself and you help to change the world". Perhaps the asker and the helper can have the person sign a contract that when they begin their new life with their aid, they to will help another soul to improve their life for themselves and their family. In this manner the world can become a better place.

I've talked myself into it. I have done this on an individual basis in Bali with a number of people and perhaps when I get back I could enlarge the scope of my idea by asking those helped to also begin to help another as soon as they can. Then the ripple wave grows wider and wider and wider.
 
I just wrote this long long response and my f%%ing computer logged me out when I was ready to submit
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Wish did never let you log in again

Who put all this rubbish into your head :evil: :evil: You don’t have a bloody clue of what you are talking about.

A women can only own land if she purchases it with her own dough, bread, dollars.
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Not so.

She does not inherit property from the family (mother, father, grandparents, uncles, aunts) even if she is any only child
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Another BIG bullsh**. I think you are a dreamer. Were did you get all this info from, maybe form a comic book.
My wife (not rich) has inherited land (rice field) and a house from her mother (not rich and not even a film star, singer, comic………….)
E.g.: In a family with 1 daughter and 2 brothers she will get a 1/4 and they will get 1/2. (The other ¼ goes to another member of the relation). Different rules for different situation.
Only one daughter, everything goes to her.

Additionally, divorce is another law whereby woman are screwed in Indonesia. When a husband wants a second or third wife (maximum allowed by Indonesia law)……………………
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You are right on this if you will get married legally, since there is also another way to get married.

Unless of course you are a big star of some sort to allow you the freedom to buy land, homes, whatever
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This is the BIGGEST BULLSH** you could have come up with. Not point going on with an explanation about this.

Gilbert you agree 100% that equality means equal work, beautiful. Obviously, you both do not have a factual basis for the laws pertaining to women in Bali and Indonesia.
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Why, do you?? NO WAY

Gilbert you agree l00% I am shocked that you were so ignorant when it comes to Indonesian Law pertaining to land ownership, child custody, when it regards WOMEN EQUAL RIGHTS. TO NEVER BEING ALLOWED TO INHERIT LAND, OR ANYTHING ELSE IS APPALING. EVERYTHING GOES TO THE MALES
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Another BIG B******* .In your dreams.

OMG And if the person truly wishes to change their life and utilize the talents they possess or want to learn a new trade, then perhaps the asker can help that person to change their life not only for themself but for their family.
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Ok with this 100%

Be damm happy you were not born in Indonesia,
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Definitely more than happy

unless of course you are a big star of some sort to allow you the freedom to buy land, homes, whatever and not be beholden to the male members in your family for your destiny.
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No, no, no, this is you rule and you have to live with it

My suggestion to you is as follow: In future you must get yourself together b4 posting to avoiding writing lots of………

All the best
 
Judy I would like to know where you get your information from. Like Lumumba I have had experience in my husbands family of women inheriting land, money, cars etc. Several family members who are women have high positions in many industries and politics.

I have copied and posted the following from Indonesian Family Law as it pertains to marriages between expats and Indonesians

Marital Property and Financial Responsibilities

1. With regard to marital property, the Marriage Law provides certain stipulations in relation to (i) what is defined as joint marital property and (ii) the legal action with respect to the joint property.
Article 35 paragraph 1 of the Marriage Law stipulates that property acquired during the marriage shall become joint marital property of the husband and the wife. According to the second paragraph of this Article, property brought into marriage by the husband or the wife or acquired separately by either one of them as a gift or inheritance shall remain the property of the party concerned, unless determined otherwise.

2. The general rule of "joint marital property" as it is adopted in the first paragraph of Article 35 may be exempted in the event the husband and wife had concluded a pre-nuptial contract, which is a specific contract of marriage for a separation of marital property, concluded prior to entering into their marriage.

In the pre-nuptial contract it can be agreed by them whether they want to apply a full separation of joint marital property or regulate the rights and obligations of each of them as to the marital property.

3. In relation to the joint marital property, the husband or the wife may only take legal action with the consent of the other.

For example, in the case of a sale of a joint property, the spouse's consent is compulsory. The same applies in the case of a personal guarantee granted by a personal guarantor as collateral for a loan. The personal guarantor is required to obtain his/her spouse approval.

With respect to property brought in by the husband or the wife respectively which does not constitute part of the joint marital property, either the husband or the wife shall be fully entitled to perform any legal action with respect to their respective personal property.

4. Debts and obligations incurred by one party during marriage are generally the joint obligations of the husband and wife unless a pre-nuptial contract exists and provides otherwise. Claims must be satisfied out of the joint property. If the joint marital properly is insufficient, the personal property of the spouse who makes the debts is liable for the remainder. Debts acquired prior to marriage continue as personal debts.

Divorce
Grounds for divorce

One of the means to dissolve a marriage is by divorce. Divorce may only be effected based on "sufficient reasons". The reasons for a divorce have been regulated in the Marriage Law, which are, in the event where one of the parties:
has committed adultery, is an alcoholic, is addicted to drugs, is a gambler or other vices which are difficult to cure;
has left the other spouse for two consecutive years, without consent and without legitimate reasons or the absence of reasons beyond his control;
has been sentenced to imprisonment for five years or a longer period;
has resorted to cruelty or severe ill-treatment, endangering the life of the other spouse;
has developed a disability or disease, preventing from fulfilling the duties of husband or wife; or
irreconcilable differences.


From Judy

And the person who said great to teach the work ethic. Please! I assisted my father at his business growing up; but I was not sweating in the blazing sun for hours on end learning the "work ethic". You would adhere to the philosophy in countries including Indonesia where children work in gold mines, diamond mines, trash cities, (indonesia) l2 to l5 hours a day to make a buck. Oh yeah your comment, "at least they are learning a work ethic). Slavery is obviously no problem for you, because that's what it is.

Judy slavery is when one person owns the other person. Do you know the circumstances of the family, do you know anything about them. You only know what Markit wrote which was not much. You seem to judge people by your own standards and you yourself have indicated that you assisted your father in his business growing up. Lucky you but not everyone has the same opportunities. We can discuss forever why the grandfather had his grand daughter working for him but that will get us nowhere.

I am married to an Indonesian and looked into the facts very closely before I got married. We live part of the year in Indonesia and part in my country. When his father and mother pass away the house will be split between three siblings, two males and one female.
 
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