Mediators?

[guy]

Hello Expats
I find myself in a situation with my business partner, where we have a difference of interpretation of parts of our business agreements and contract; that is , he is not directly going against anything in the copntract, but the things he is doing (like taking customers and assets with him) i believe are simply against company law or normal practice.
I don't want to go head-to-head with him - I'm sure he thinks he's in the right - so I just want someone to mediate. is there such a thing as a legal mediator here?
Thanks....

 

[mrsgabry]

yes there is one. Her name is Anjarini. She is a mediator and a legal adviser. Her company is called Sabita Advisory. I know her personally and can only recommend her. Google will come up with adress and phone number. Hope this helps,
Gabriele

 

[guy]

Thankyou Gabriele, I will contact her if present negotiations break down. Of course if my "friend" and partner doesnt want to cooperate, the I guess I'm pretty much stuffed!

 

[gilbert de jong]

curious....why don't you want to head to head with him?

 

[SHoggard]

Hello Expats
that is , he is not directly going against anything in the copntract, but the things he is doing (like taking customers and assets with him) i believe are simply against company law or normal practice.
Thanks....

Don't quite understand the part "taking customers and assets with him" - do you mean he has a similar or competing business & he's diverting customers from your joint business to his??
Assets??? Do you mean he's walking off with company assets?
Is he a director in the company? That would be 'breach of fiduciary duties' but very hard to enforce most places in the world, never mind Bali.

Is he (or you) an expat, Indonesian, Balanese? That would also make a difference

 

[guy]

Conflict

curious....why don't you want to head to head with him?

simply to avoid conflict as far as possible, as in a fight, both people lose, one just loses more than the other. So I would rather "motivate" him into being fair.

 

[guy]

I am Bule (uk) and he is Indo (living here 20 years). He had a business already (diving) and this was to be the Sister business, cooperating and sharing assets (website etc). The old one doing all the Boat diving, and the new one (mine) doing courses and land-based trips so each feeding the other with customers. Same name too. But after differences of opinion, he cut me off from the emails, website, accounts (etc etc) and said that he should be bought out (for his %age of the the original investment costs, over 1 year ago). Of course, without the contacts, name, website etc (you'll have to take my word on this) - its just not the same company and not worth as much. The shared assets (client-base, website, professional contacts and service contracts such as hotel and transport contracts) he has taken with him.
Oh and, of course, there will (shortly) be no PT any more, thus no Kitas for me.
The finances are a little weird - he still has investment in the company, I have 35%, and there is someone else - He says They owe him 700 million; They say He owes them 700 million. Don't ask how, I have no idea.
I am a little disgruntled.
And in answer to your next question - no. Nothing in writing (it all happened very fast and it was always a case of "my agent hasnt got back to me yet".
Dont need to investigate here why I was so trusting, before anyone asks.....:icon_sad:

Don't quite understand the part "taking customers and assets with him" - do you mean he has a similar or competing business & he's diverting customers from your joint business to his??
Assets??? Do you mean he's walking off with company assets?
Is he a director in the company? That would be 'breach of fiduciary duties' but very hard to enforce most places in the world, never mind Bali.

Is he (or you) an expat, Indonesian, Balanese? That would also make a difference

 

[sakumabali]

Hey Guy,

sorry you have to go through all this but to be honest there's not much you can do about it, you can't prove anything, your expartner knows that without a Kitas you probably have to leave the island and if you keep working he will report you. I hate all this but it's the truth. I also still get money from a balinese guy (similar situation, he owes me money & refuses to give it back), a mediator? He's the winner, why should he give you something back? If you see the success stories from the richest balinese business men you know what they did to become so successful in the past: get rid of their (often foreign) partners.
See it as (a bad) life experience and forget about it, probably your "partner" planned this long time ago and will do it again...

 

[Markit]

Don't automatically think it will be so black and despondent. Perhaps if you suggested to your partner that the only chance of him seeing any of his 700 juta is if the company carries on trading and that he should step back and give all the stuff he is holding back free for you to carry on with to enable you to make regular payments to him. Of course, whether you actually do this later on is up to you.

It appears from what you say that a 3rd party is involved with some serious money that your partner is after too and that you have %35 of nothing at the moment?

Having nothing to lose, it would be my choice to try and make it a running concern again. With you as the boss. Good luck

 

[guy]

Actually the 700Juta is owed to me .... someone else owes him that, another partner who sees everything as I do; who is also Balinese businessman, and high in the local Banjar. Maybe thats of some use to me.
He wont deny having a contract with me; he has a reputation to protect (although who knows how much it is worth to him...) and part of a local (Sanur) business community (who will of course support him rather than me; but it may be enough motivation to give me some leverage, as all I want is an approximation of justice).
Buggerrit.

ps thanks Markit - advice is easy to give, but it should be helpful, or else why bother? I like what you said, and am taking it to heart as it is a positive thing. I'm not one for giving up; I invested my life savings and not having all my life in front of me any more to save up another $60,000 I'm willing to fight to get this back, even if it means having to leave Bali afterwards . Actually its what I wanted (to have the whole thing) as HE was a terrible manager; its just that the shop I would end up with is worth maybe 2 - 300 juta less than originally sold.
AArrrgggg.
(breath in, breath ouuuuuutttttttt).

Don't automatically think it will be so black and despondent. Perhaps if you suggested to your partner that the only chance of him seeing any of his 700 juta is if the company carries on trading and that he should step back and give all the stuff he is holding back free for you to carry on with to enable you to make regular payments to him. Of course, whether you actually do this later on is up to you.

It appears from what you say that a 3rd party is involved with some serious money that your partner is after too and that you have %35 of nothing at the moment?

Having nothing to lose, it would be my choice to try and make it a running concern again. With you as the boss. Good luck

 

[SHoggard]

Actually the 700Juta is owed to me .... someone else owes him that, another partner who sees everything as I do; who is also Balinese businessman, and high in the local Banjar. Maybe thats of some use to me.

AArrrgggg.
(breath in, breath ouuuuuutttttttt).

Ok maybe it isn't as black as it first seemed.... there seems to be
two sets of 700 in play here:
What you gave to 'your guy'
What the 'other partner' possibly owes your guy (it dows sound a bit like your money was routed to the other partner for something)

So, how's your relationship with the other partner who owes this guy 700?
Can you maneuver the other partner to your side and get him to either transfer the debt to you on the basis of cutting out the middle man (he owes your guy 700 & your guy owes you 700) so what do you need your guy for? Be sure you get some paperwork on that
Then technically at least you'll be owed 1,400

What are your chances of actually getting any of the 700 from the other partner? If you can maybe it's best to take the money & run..... exit that situation & leave behind the heartache.
If no chance, no worries, If you can convince the other partner to transfer the debt, he probably sees you as a better operator of the business than 'your guy' (& therefore a better horse to back) so he might help turn the tables & oust 'your guy' ....
Some incentive might be hinted at like reducing the other partner's debt over time as the business begins to earn what it should have making before your silly bugger began to siphon off the cream...so he can see some long term advantage in screwing the guy he owes the 700 to
That's not a single conversation but a delicate 'seeding' of thoughts and not a little creative hypnotism (waving a magic wand & painting a brighter future with your guy out of the picture & just having the dumb bule to deal with)

Even if you can't convince him to transfer the debt, at the very least.... you may have found your "Mediator" if you turn to him, worried & ask for help.

Never underestimate the Indonesian love of intrigue & politics

I just noticed in your 1st post 'your guy' is "Indo, living here 20 years" (so Javanese? whatever, definately NOT Balinese) while the 'partner' is Balinese.... hell that's a recipe for Divide & Conquer if ever I saw one!

 

[Markit]

Ok now it is getting a bit clearer.

Couple of things to bear in mind:
1) presuming a decent outcome you will all still want/have to live here so no pissing in the soup.

2) Believe it or not the locals are very concerned about their good name and cheating on a contract, no matter with whom - yes, even Bule, is concidered very ungood!

3) In my experience if you give them a good chance to do right they will. But they have to be given the chance - but no more money! OK?

Perhaps a sit down with all 3 partners and you with a local (not a lawyer - they scare the shit our of everyone) translator in front of your Kepala Desa? He would be honoured, your local miscreant would be embarassed and the other partner has nothing to lose and from the sound of it neither do you.

 

[divewench]

Having been in a similar position earlier this year, I sympathise completely with your position. It's a horrible situation to be in. Hope things go your way in the end.