Leasing land without a sertifikat

[Philip108]

I am still in the process of leasing a piece of land.
The land has a sertifikat, which was suppose to make the leasing process pretty straight forward.
When we went to the notaris, i saw the sertifikat for the first time and realised that the piece that i'm leasing is kinda outside the marked area in the land drawing...

The notaris later confirmed that indeed, the piece i'm leasing is not part of that sertifikat. So the owners kinda just realised that actually do own the land but it's not in the title deed! Omg, what a nightmare...

Anyway, the notaris instructed that they get verifications from their District head & Kepala desa, that under customary laws, they actually do own that land.
A few days, later, the land owners came back with the necessary documents to prove their ownership of the land.

So they have a document called Sporadik, signed by the Kepala Dusun & Kepala Desa & Camat.
And also the family tree document, Heirs statement etc
And the notaris confirm that the documents are sufficient to make a secure lease contract.

Has anyone leased land without a sertifikat?
Are these the correct documents to prove the land ownership?

I just want to be sure before signing off.

Thanks for sharing any advice, or past experiences.

Cheers.

 

[spicyayam]

Sounds a little dodgy to me. Why not just get a new certificate made for the land?

 

[scout]

Sounds a little dodgy to me. Why not just get a new certificate made for the land?

Apparently that takes forever to get. A new certificate = lots of red tape and, of course rupiah. Make sure that u hold this new document and not the landowners.

 

[spicyayam]

I know someone last year who bought land through a nominee where the owner didn't have a certificate. The buyer paid a deposit on the land and made an agreement with the owner that the deposit would be returned and he would pay for the buyer's expenses if they weren't able to get the certificate. The process to get the certificate, change the zoning and to the new owner took 6 months.

 

[Mark]

From current experience, the insight from spicy and scout is spot on. We are presently involved in a transaction for two contiguous pieces of land, one which has a cert and the other without. Our notary advised not to enter the transaction until the court process to get the cert on the second piece had passed the 'no objection' phase, where apparently neighbors or anyone else with a claim on the land can lodge an objection to the issuing of the certificate, which can potentially delay things ad infinitum. The 'owner' started the process last March, and we understand that the final court decision issuing the certificate will occur next week, so spicy's six month example seems to be the norm. We also understand that the owner spent a lot of money on this process (which in your case, for a lease, the owner may not be as keen to do). To add to the advice given so far, I would suggest patience and flexibility. Personally, I would not purchase or lease land without a certificate or a clear path (verified by the notary) to obtain one. You may be in love with this land, but if it is to be, it will be. If not, then there will be other opportunities.

 

[Philip108]

Thanks guys, for all the different advices.

Mark is right that in the case of a land lease, owners usually do not want to incur the costs of making the land cert. So they go for the approval documents from the district, desa & banjar. I have also consulted with a legal consultancy co. (Westerner lawyer whose wife is a notaris) and they both said the documents issued by the 3 different heads will make a secure lease contract.

So far i feel comfortable with the arrangements and the documents. But i should seek a 3rd opinion too.

Thanks for the advices guys.

 

[gilbert de jong]

And the notaris confirm that the documents are sufficient to make a secure lease contract.

Has anyone leased land without a sertifikat?
Are these the correct documents to prove the land ownership?

I just want to be sure before signing off.

Thanks for sharing any advice, or past experiences.

Cheers.

Strange notaris...
personally do not know of anyone leasing land without a sertifikat.
those are correct documents to make an amendment to the existing sertifikat, so in a way proof of ownership to process a re-measurement ...but not (imho) a good basis for a leasecontract. Kepala desa/dusun/camat change over time (elections) and so can change opinions/relationships and disputes can arise.

 

[Mark]

Gil is correct. Without a proper certificate, title to the land is open a wide variety of potential disputes, which may entirely coincidentally arise the moment that the ink is dry on your lease agreement. Verbum sat sapienti - translation: 'a word to the wise is sufficient'.