Business bits

[longqi]

With the new changes coming regarding foreign ownership etc in Indonesia
is it a good idea to invest in a business in Bali at this time?

My business is tourist oriented and works very well in two locations in Australia
It only requires a small shopfront [3x3m approx]

If I am only in Bali in a supervisory capacity what visas etc do I need?
Do I need to set the business up as a company?

The reason I am asking here is that I have got so many conflicting replies from so called advisors

Thanks for any input
peter

 

[spicyayam]

With the new changes coming regarding foreign ownership etc in Indonesia is it a good idea to invest in a business in Bali at this time?

You mean with regards to buying property? Even though there was a lot talk about this in the newspapers, there will be little change. About the only change that I have seen is in the way leases will work.

My business is tourist oriented and works very well in two locations in Australia
It only requires a small shopfront [3x3m approx]

If I am only in Bali in a supervisory capacity what visas etc do I need?

If you are working, you need a working visa.

Do I need to set the business up as a company?

How would a business operate without having a company? So, I think the answer is yet to this.

 

[Jesse]

Short term business could be a good thing if you fear about the new law about business ownership issues. Or better yet, investing as foreign partner could also work as long as you can trust the local company with your assets for the business.

 

[longqi]

Short term business could be a good thing if you fear about the new law about business ownership issues. Or better yet, investing as foreign partner could also work as long as you can trust the local company with your assets for the business.

The assets are actually very small in value
and virtually worthless to most other people
except for rental property leases etc etc

The work thing is not as easy to understand
I thought you could be in Bali as a manager/supervisor without a kitas??

 

[Jimbo]

Only if you are working for someonr they would get you a Kitas but you need one regardsless. If you work you need a Kitas visa and they are not easy to get. See the visa section for links to examples of visas.

 

[spicyayam]

I thought you could be in Bali as a manager/supervisor without a kitas??

If you are a manager then you would be working so then you would need a working visa. You can use a business visa say to research business oportunities, attending meetings etc, but it doesn't allow you to work.

The APEC card might be worth looking into also.

 

[ronb]

The work thing is not as easy to understand
I thought you could be in Bali as a manager/supervisor without a kitas??

Yes it is confusing because there is no clear distinction between "work", and you as an investor tracking the success or otherwise of your investment.

If the business was a bar, and you served drinks, then you are obviously doing "work" that could be done by and Indonesian, and the "no work" condition of visas is all about maximising job opportunities for Indonesians.

If you have invested your money in this bar, and you are sitting in front of a computer somewhere tracking finances, and maybe thinking about options for changing directions or developing a new marketing strategies - then who is going to confront you and say you were doing work (that could be dine by a local)? Maybe an accountant could say you were doing work he could do, or a marketing consultant could have a go at it. I don't think that's very likely - but it's you who has to assess the risks and work out where you are going to go.

 

[longqi]

Yes it is confusing because there is no clear distinction between "work", and you as an investor tracking the success or otherwise of your investment.

If the business was a bar, and you served drinks, then you are obviously doing "work" that could be done by and Indonesian, and the "no work" condition of visas is all about maximising job opportunities for Indonesians.

If you have invested your money in this bar, and you are sitting in front of a computer somewhere tracking finances, and maybe thinking about options for changing directions or developing a new marketing strategies - then who is going to confront you and say you were doing work (that could be dine by a local)? Maybe an accountant could say you were doing work he could do, or a marketing consultant could have a go at it. I don't think that's very likely - but it's you who has to assess the risks and work out where you are going to go.

Ok this really helps because my part would be purely managerial with zero hands on work
With the type of work involved, at this time nobody in Bali could do it until they were taught how to

The whole kitas thing is a mess to work out and the differences in quotes for setiing up various types of companies have been unbelievable, with no guarantees that there is any more protection
This business will always remain very low maintenance as it requires a maximum of 2 staff but a PV company keeps being suggested
Why would I need a PV with a very small monetary investment and only myself ever involved in the business as a foreigner??

 

[spicyayam]

CV or PT? A CV is for smaller companies. Within a CV there is also small, medium and large. You need to have at least a medium CV to be able to sponsor a foreigner's work visa.

 

[longqi]

CV or PT? A CV is for smaller companies. Within a CV there is also small, medium and large. You need to have at least a medium CV to be able to sponsor a foreigner's work visa.

But if I am not actually working in any capacity other than trainiong staff will I need a KITAS?
One person said why dont I get a "special event licence" and a 60 business visa to let me set it up and do the training because after initial training there is just mentoring to be done which can be done from anywhere even on line...???

 

[Jimbo]

It is difficult to give you advice because you only want to accept an answer that suits you. We are not experts in here and most of the advice we give is based on hearesay. My honest suggestion to you is to approach a professional or agency who know the law regarding such matters that way you will be absolutely sure that what you are doing is correct and lawful.

In here we can only give opinions which are not much use if with all the will in the world we are wrong and you get pounced upon by immigration or tax people.

 

[longqi]

It is difficult to give you advice because you only want to accept an answer that suits you. We are not experts in here and most of the advice we give is based on hearesay. My honest suggestion to you is to approach a professional or agency who know the law regarding such matters that way you will be absolutely sure that what you are doing is correct and lawful.

In here we can only give opinions which are not much use if with all the will in the world we are wrong and you get pounced upon by immigration or tax people.

The biggest problem I am having is with finding someone who knows what they are doing
Every email from these so called proffessionals changes and I end up with differing responses

For example One says I must have a PV, Then after I say I only want to ever run one business says Ok just a CV is needed. Then I ask will I need a working visa if I am in a purely supervisory capacity and the replies are purely nonsensical and always go straight back to PV

The prices I have been quoted for setting up a PV and CV have varied by over 600%

Does anyone know a reputable professional who will walk me through this??

lujanid@yahoo.com

thanks
peter

 

[Jesse]

Jimbo is right, you just have to pick on any particular positive point that we lend to you for you to make the right decision for yourself.
Business is no joke so you have to consider many options before going through it.

 

[spicyayam]

The biggest problem I am having is with finding someone who knows what they are doing
Every email from these so called proffessionals changes and I end up with differing responses

Are you in Bali now? I think it is better to try and call this people directly or visit their office.

 

[longqi]

Are you in Bali now? I think it is better to try and call this people directly or visit their office.

Have been to Bali several times
Have finally got something definite in writing from one company
Complete CV including work visa for one year $3000

That is by far the cheapest quote and the company seems to know what they are talking about and are not continually pushing a PV so that I can use more outside staff

 

[spicyayam]

To get a working visa you need to pay US$1200 on top of the costs to get the visa. Setting up a CV is not really really expensive depending on your notary. $3000 is reasonable if of course this includes the $1200 fee you need to pay and the cost of setting up the company and your visa.

You really need to be sure if there any other costs involved as I have heard of people getting all of this set up and then being hit with other fees and expenses, which by that stage are difficult to refuse once you have already been using one particular agent/consultant.

To set up a company you need a business address so you have to organize this also. The property you rent will need an IMB (building permit) and there are many properties here that don't have this.

There is probably a lot of other things you haven't thought about, but you will need to address at some point, like taxes. Even if you don't make any money you need to files reports every month. Who is your director going to be? etc. etc.

I am not trying to disuade you, but there are so many other things that are going to crop up along the way and you need to be ready for this.

 

[longqi]

To get a working visa you need to pay US$1200 on top of the costs to get the visa. Setting up a CV is not really really expensive depending on your notary. $3000 is reasonable if of course this includes the $1200 fee you need to pay and the cost of setting up the company and your visa.

You really need to be sure if there any other costs involved as I have heard of people getting all of this set up and then being hit with other fees and expenses, which by that stage are difficult to refuse once you have already been using one particular agent/consultant.

To set up a company you need a business address so you have to organize this also. The property you rent will need an IMB (building permit) and there are many properties here that don't have this.

There is probably a lot of other things you haven't thought about, but you will need to address at some point, like taxes. Even if you don't make any money you need to files reports every month. Who is your director going to be? etc. etc.

I am not trying to disuade you, but there are so many other things that are going to crop up along the way and you need to be ready for this.

Hopefully the business address is all sorted and also the potential tax obligations
Your information on IMB is really valuable because that had never been mentioned before
Am checking now to get in writing that there are no more extras on top
Thanks
peter

 

[longqi]

Hopefully the business address is all sorted and also the potential tax obligations
Your information on IMB is really valuable because that had never been mentioned before
Am checking now to get in writing that there are no more extras on top
Thanks
peter

Would a business visa allow me to train my staff for 60 days in an unpaid capacity?
That answer sounds simple but according to several different lawyers it is anything but simple

Because I would like to do a trial of the business to ensure there are no unforseen problems
I want to rent a small shop for a few months
Can I then relocate to permanent premises without any problems??

Thanks
Peter

 

[Jimbo]

If your lawters find it difficult to answer I am afraid we would too. Sorry :icon_wink:

 

[spicyayam]

Forums are not a great place to get legal advice. We can only guess at to what "might" be the situation.

You could try contacting immigration and asking them directly, but again you might not get an exact answer.