I'm new to this forum ... but living here 12 years .. visiting for 10 yrs. before moving here .... so overall more than 20yrs experience in Indonesia / Bali ..
I'm glad to take my responsibilities seriously ... however, Until the adat, banjars & school system is open to change .. and then starts to educate the majority of the youth here on these subjects ... which imo is not going to happen anytime soon.. as the elders , teachers will not change in this generation ... maybe ... when the island's infrastructure completely falls apart, will the folks here as a majority be open to change ... until that happens ... I wouldn't invest any big expectations on "positive" change ... realist not pessimist ... better to be careful with your investments , learn to live with it ... or not .
I'm glad to take my responsibilities seriously ... however, Until the adat, banjars & school system is open to change .. and then starts to educate the majority of the youth here on these subjects ... which imo is not going to happen anytime soon.. as the elders , teachers will not change in this generation ... maybe ... when the island's infrastructure completely falls apart, will the folks here as a majority be open to change ... until that happens ... I wouldn't invest any big expectations on "positive" change ... realist not pessimist ... better to be careful with your investments , learn to live with it ... or not .
“Bali used to be able to achieve self-sufficiency in agriculture. But nowadays, more and more land has been converted into hotels and villas.”
And then there are those ruins that are left to rot away ...... And down the road the rice field is turned into a villa complex that could house a Balinese family and their pigs and their cows and still be partly used as rice fields...... Just recently I was approached by a local who owns 30 are of agricultural land he wants to sell. Desperately needs money he says and gives me a price which is far from cheap considering there is no road to this plot of land. I cannot afford it but would love to have it to grow rice and food...... not build a villa. But it is the one who will build a villa that could afford it.....
Then there is the "Organic Farm" (makes me barf) that I visited on Bali that organically burns their waste - in the smoldering pile I found aerosol cans, plastic water bottles, a small piece of what looked like a rubber tire, the remains of flip flops and a recently added sunlight bottle. I was so aghast as was my Balinese fiance at this obvious demonstration of waste management that is anything but organic. The place is - as many are - run by a foreigner. Either they are unaware or could not care.
These are only a few examples of what I have seen and see everyday....
While it is true that the locals should too be educated, it is not only their responsibility to care for Bali (and other places!!!!) Everyday I try to set an example and although what I do may not be the most ideal I do hope that I am creating an awareness. It is simple things like not just throwing trash out the window, separating the plastic from the rest, composting kitchen and garden waste, turning off the faucet (for ch%@$t sake) and much more. Although it is not really much for some I have made enough of an impact on my staff so that they too have started to follow some of my examples.
Nuff said.....
And then there are those ruins that are left to rot away ...... And down the road the rice field is turned into a villa complex that could house a Balinese family and their pigs and their cows and still be partly used as rice fields...... Just recently I was approached by a local who owns 30 are of agricultural land he wants to sell. Desperately needs money he says and gives me a price which is far from cheap considering there is no road to this plot of land. I cannot afford it but would love to have it to grow rice and food...... not build a villa. But it is the one who will build a villa that could afford it.....
Then there is the "Organic Farm" (makes me barf) that I visited on Bali that organically burns their waste - in the smoldering pile I found aerosol cans, plastic water bottles, a small piece of what looked like a rubber tire, the remains of flip flops and a recently added sunlight bottle. I was so aghast as was my Balinese fiance at this obvious demonstration of waste management that is anything but organic. The place is - as many are - run by a foreigner. Either they are unaware or could not care.
These are only a few examples of what I have seen and see everyday....
While it is true that the locals should too be educated, it is not only their responsibility to care for Bali (and other places!!!!) Everyday I try to set an example and although what I do may not be the most ideal I do hope that I am creating an awareness. It is simple things like not just throwing trash out the window, separating the plastic from the rest, composting kitchen and garden waste, turning off the faucet (for ch%@$t sake) and much more. Although it is not really much for some I have made enough of an impact on my staff so that they too have started to follow some of my examples.
Nuff said.....
In reply to kayoticlaudia
Take a look at these communities on facebook:
Bali Clean & Green Province - Info & Discussion Group
Bali Cantik Tampa Plastik Campaign
There are many schools that are educating the kids, and also have organic gardens, they are learning the art of recycling and taking the message home to their parents. Sure it will take time, but something is being done.
I also go out every morning and clean up the plastic and litter around the front of my house, especially in the water way; lots of looks "crazy bule" but now there is a group of kids that get in there and help too, every little bit helps.
There a number of organic farms, I would love the name of this one, can you PM me with the information please :icon_rolleyes:
Take a look at these communities on facebook:
Bali Clean & Green Province - Info & Discussion Group
Bali Cantik Tampa Plastik Campaign
There are many schools that are educating the kids, and also have organic gardens, they are learning the art of recycling and taking the message home to their parents. Sure it will take time, but something is being done.
I also go out every morning and clean up the plastic and litter around the front of my house, especially in the water way; lots of looks "crazy bule" but now there is a group of kids that get in there and help too, every little bit helps.
There a number of organic farms, I would love the name of this one, can you PM me with the information please :icon_rolleyes:
Yes..... we should all do something and remember Rome was not built in one day!!!
I sit on the beach with my Balinese Fiance amongst the trash. When we leave we take our garbage with us. He asked me why I only take mine....
I said I brought it here and can bring it back home. I just do it so that everyone can see and hope that they will start thinking about it. If I went and picked up all the garbage then they would never do anything about it because hey.... there's the crazy bule doing it for us!
In our local Hard's they all know me as the lady with the clothe bags who does not want the plastic bags.... I don't preach anything to them. They all know exactly why I do it and now I start to see more locals think like me....
I sit on the beach with my Balinese Fiance amongst the trash. When we leave we take our garbage with us. He asked me why I only take mine....
I said I brought it here and can bring it back home. I just do it so that everyone can see and hope that they will start thinking about it. If I went and picked up all the garbage then they would never do anything about it because hey.... there's the crazy bule doing it for us!
In our local Hard's they all know me as the lady with the clothe bags who does not want the plastic bags.... I don't preach anything to them. They all know exactly why I do it and now I start to see more locals think like me....
land conversions
The article only blames tourism,wich-indirectly-might be right.I live in an almost unspoilt village for five years now.In this period i have seen many plots of land converted for building,but almost all for use by balinese.Whole stretches of road that used to be pristine are now lined with houses,warungs and bussinesses.It may be an indirect effect of increase in wealth due to tourism,but i have a feeling population boom is also a big factor.Many families are bursting out of their traditional compounds and build in another place in order to house the bigger families.
Coupled with a non-enforcing of the existing laws and regulations that is doomed to be disastrous,as there seems no planning involved anywhere.There is a green zone here,where plenty of houses are build.When i asked the kepala desa why he let them do that,he explained they would "never" be given an IMB,so for his record the houses did not exist.As long as it was for housing people from the village,he would not take any action.
I agree with former posters that a big mentality change is needed before any improvement can be made.
But who can blame them as the government in Jakarta gives the good example?
The article only blames tourism,wich-indirectly-might be right.I live in an almost unspoilt village for five years now.In this period i have seen many plots of land converted for building,but almost all for use by balinese.Whole stretches of road that used to be pristine are now lined with houses,warungs and bussinesses.It may be an indirect effect of increase in wealth due to tourism,but i have a feeling population boom is also a big factor.Many families are bursting out of their traditional compounds and build in another place in order to house the bigger families.
Coupled with a non-enforcing of the existing laws and regulations that is doomed to be disastrous,as there seems no planning involved anywhere.There is a green zone here,where plenty of houses are build.When i asked the kepala desa why he let them do that,he explained they would "never" be given an IMB,so for his record the houses did not exist.As long as it was for housing people from the village,he would not take any action.
I agree with former posters that a big mentality change is needed before any improvement can be made.
But who can blame them as the government in Jakarta gives the good example?
OMG are you joking!!! people are going to watch you pick up your rubbish, and then they will start thinking about it!!! As I mentioned in a previous post, I clean, outside my house every day, on the road and the waterway, I now have a group of kids, at last count 20!! they have watched me, and now understand what I am on about, so to say that no one will pick up rubbish because a crazy bule is doing it for us, is in MHO a ridiculous comment.
People have been using cloth bags here for years, and yes in some places, you are asked if you want plastic, which is fantastic. :icon_biggrin:
huh???
You just said yourself that you have a group of kids watch you and now understand what you are on about..... basically that is what I was saying too....
In our local hardy they don't ask if you want a plastic bag - they just give it to you even if you hold out your clothe bag. I tell them everytime that I don't need a plastic bag.....
What I said was I was not going to clean the beach that is littered with plastic! The beach isn't even anywhere near where I live (which is thankfully far from any tourist/expat places).... The connection I was trying to explain is the same as when raising children..... if I was to wipe my kids ass and never let her take care of it she would always expect me or someone else to wipe her ass and never learn to do it herself!:icon_rolleyes:
Astute observations Hermit & stated very well ...
This is the reality here ... growth is not just being fueled by international tourism , many local factors come into play on this front .... many that "guests" (all ex-pats living here will always be guests) have no idea of ... nor will we be privilege to all the aspects ... because we are guests .... some maybe ... if you are fluent and interact with the community ... like the IMB story just stated ... there are many more than just that one ... guaranteed !
We are not just discussing picking up a little plastic .. this subject goes much deeper than that .
Imo , it will be generations for major change be accepted/adopted by the majority of the population here ... if ever ....
Don't forget folks , this island , and , 95%+ of this archipelago has fairly Primitive Cultures, some Very Primitive .. local majority change would be needed and that will not happen easily or quickly ...
In reply to kayoticlaudia
"What I said was I was not going to clean the beach that is littered with plastic! The beach isn't even anywhere near where I live (which is thankfully far from any tourist/expat places)...."
So the beach isnt anywhere near where you live!!!!!! goodness me, this comment leaves me speechless......any piece of rubbish that can be picked up and disposed of correctly is a step in the right direction, no matter how small. I paid and organised for the first rubbish truck in Ubud in 1980 and the rubbish that was collected, was not mine, but I took ownership for the removal, the distribution and recycling, yes we had recycling in the 80's because the amount of plastic was, at that stage under control.
You also misunderstood my comment regarding the children helping me clean the waterway and the road, these are kids from my village and my neighbours, initially they were curious, what 3 to 5 yr old isnt, but now understand and are very willing helpers.
"What I said was I was not going to clean the beach that is littered with plastic! The beach isn't even anywhere near where I live (which is thankfully far from any tourist/expat places)...."
So the beach isnt anywhere near where you live!!!!!! goodness me, this comment leaves me speechless......any piece of rubbish that can be picked up and disposed of correctly is a step in the right direction, no matter how small. I paid and organised for the first rubbish truck in Ubud in 1980 and the rubbish that was collected, was not mine, but I took ownership for the removal, the distribution and recycling, yes we had recycling in the 80's because the amount of plastic was, at that stage under control.
You also misunderstood my comment regarding the children helping me clean the waterway and the road, these are kids from my village and my neighbours, initially they were curious, what 3 to 5 yr old isnt, but now understand and are very willing helpers.
ladies...you two are actually on the same page without realizing it.
I mean you both are saying the same thing, just different examples and different words...and maybe therefor wrongly interpreted...misunderstood.
I mean you both are saying the same thing, just different examples and different words...and maybe therefor wrongly interpreted...misunderstood.
Your experience is similar to mine.
Our joy has been to help some local families kids to school. We have paid the bills.
No applause required.
However, our major challenge has been when involved in an outing with the kids (individually, normally) they always throw their litter on the ground. We would talk to them about this, but they sincerely thouight therewas nothing wrong as their parents did it.
I agree, it starts at a more senior level.
Our joy has been to help some local families kids to school. We have paid the bills.
No applause required.
However, our major challenge has been when involved in an outing with the kids (individually, normally) they always throw their litter on the ground. We would talk to them about this, but they sincerely thouight therewas nothing wrong as their parents did it.
I agree, it starts at a more senior level.
There is another level of concern to be .. appreciated , hesitate to use that word ... but ..
What about the factories dumping chemicals into the rivers , or the hotels piping their raw sewage into the ocean .. air pollution ... has anyone got into a boat or jukung from sanur, serangan etc ... gone out a few kilo's and look back at the island ... there is a brown haze over the south like we see in a major metropolis .... and if you do try this .. try in the rainy season ..all the plastic etc. washed out of the rivers is unbelievable ...
This heart breaker very few folks see ...
I go ocean fishing here ... allot , well less than before, as nowadays ... you cannot drive a boat half a kilo "trolling" lures without plastic bags etc. getting on your hooks ... the ocean is also mess here ....
What about the factories dumping chemicals into the rivers , or the hotels piping their raw sewage into the ocean .. air pollution ... has anyone got into a boat or jukung from sanur, serangan etc ... gone out a few kilo's and look back at the island ... there is a brown haze over the south like we see in a major metropolis .... and if you do try this .. try in the rainy season ..all the plastic etc. washed out of the rivers is unbelievable ...
This heart breaker very few folks see ...
I go ocean fishing here ... allot , well less than before, as nowadays ... you cannot drive a boat half a kilo "trolling" lures without plastic bags etc. getting on your hooks ... the ocean is also mess here ....
I agree with the responses on this article.....and my main concern is the enormous amount of hotels being built here....which i guess is good for the Balinese workers....BUT.....while we are constantly reading Pastika's joys of the increase in tourism what he doesn't realise is that almost as many will never return to Bali simply because of the way it has been allowed to be turned into a developers dream ($$).....not having one ounce of concern on how they are building ugly hotels/villas/condotels etc....and completely disregarding the surrounding Balinese architecture.
This is just my opinion.......and i am open to critiscm!!!!but surely if a westerner goes to a tropical island for the beauty of it's architecture and culture why would they want to stay in a crappy glass and concrete monster?...if that's the sort of hotel they want then there are many places they can.....and hopefully...go to.
I cannot beleive the amount of hotels being built in a very small radius around Jl Melasti and Legian Street.......I am hoping this sudden burst of development will eventually sink into the ground
Surely these brain dead architects could design some beautiful Balinese style hotes/villas?
Sadly i come accross tourists who are loving this nightmare of new hotels but it is not going to last...i hope.......
Rice farmers need more help from the government but it is a sad fact the $$$$ can build anything here...i feel very sorry for them they don't seem to stand a chance.
During my 2 years of living here many locals in my area are also saying they don't likke the way Bali is going....even locals in villages far away from the tourist areas say the same.
All the time the local government is making zillions from developers Bali doesn't stand a chance of any decent infrastructure or roads to mention just 2 important agendas.
This is just my view on what i am seeing....unfortunately i am not very good at putting things very clearly but I just it from my heart and it is not intended to upset.
This is just my opinion.......and i am open to critiscm!!!!but surely if a westerner goes to a tropical island for the beauty of it's architecture and culture why would they want to stay in a crappy glass and concrete monster?...if that's the sort of hotel they want then there are many places they can.....and hopefully...go to.
I cannot beleive the amount of hotels being built in a very small radius around Jl Melasti and Legian Street.......I am hoping this sudden burst of development will eventually sink into the ground
Surely these brain dead architects could design some beautiful Balinese style hotes/villas?
Sadly i come accross tourists who are loving this nightmare of new hotels but it is not going to last...i hope.......
Rice farmers need more help from the government but it is a sad fact the $$$$ can build anything here...i feel very sorry for them they don't seem to stand a chance.
During my 2 years of living here many locals in my area are also saying they don't likke the way Bali is going....even locals in villages far away from the tourist areas say the same.
All the time the local government is making zillions from developers Bali doesn't stand a chance of any decent infrastructure or roads to mention just 2 important agendas.
This is just my view on what i am seeing....unfortunately i am not very good at putting things very clearly but I just it from my heart and it is not intended to upset.
recycling
well im glad to see that in our village in the north near Singaraja, there is people that come around the village and pay locals for their recycling rubbish. It maybe only a small amount but for my mother in law it pays for small things like shampoo and every little bit helps to help reduce the waste of plastic in bali.
well im glad to see that in our village in the north near Singaraja, there is people that come around the village and pay locals for their recycling rubbish. It maybe only a small amount but for my mother in law it pays for small things like shampoo and every little bit helps to help reduce the waste of plastic in bali.
C
CanonMan
Guest
Interesting article but there is no mention of the influx of other Indonesian elements drawn to Bali in order to prey on the Tourists. With crime figures going through the roof it is estimated that the population increases here by around 300,000 per year, a very conservative number. This was recently highlighted in a story in the Advertiser as well as somewhere online.
The whole trash issue could, or rather should, be addressed with the possible start of on the spot fines for littering, I'm sure the police would love that! I've lost count how many times I've been driving or riding around Bali behind a vehicle the occupants of which systematically just toss out finished soft drink cans, food wrappers, contents of ashtrays and even on one occasion a newspaper! Absolutely infuriating to see, but if you say something the blank stares of incomprehension are cast across even the older of faces. I think the sad fact is that many people here just don't 'see' the trash, it's become so normal for them that it just becomes a part of the scenery in general.
We're having a new roof put on our house at the moment. The Javanese builders were brought here by the company we hired for the job. On day one I had to tell them not to throw their cigarette ends all over the house, inside even!! My wife and I being non smokers we hate the fact that many people here again just spark up wherever the hell they want without the slightest regard for anyone or anything around them. Day two of the work and I came home to see that they had just dumped the latest consignment of roof tiles all across our plants and flowers killing the lot in our small garden! I really just cannot understand why some people can't see and think about other people's space and belongings.
I guess trying to educate on all aspects of what could make Bali better would take a heck of a long time....
The whole trash issue could, or rather should, be addressed with the possible start of on the spot fines for littering, I'm sure the police would love that! I've lost count how many times I've been driving or riding around Bali behind a vehicle the occupants of which systematically just toss out finished soft drink cans, food wrappers, contents of ashtrays and even on one occasion a newspaper! Absolutely infuriating to see, but if you say something the blank stares of incomprehension are cast across even the older of faces. I think the sad fact is that many people here just don't 'see' the trash, it's become so normal for them that it just becomes a part of the scenery in general.
We're having a new roof put on our house at the moment. The Javanese builders were brought here by the company we hired for the job. On day one I had to tell them not to throw their cigarette ends all over the house, inside even!! My wife and I being non smokers we hate the fact that many people here again just spark up wherever the hell they want without the slightest regard for anyone or anything around them. Day two of the work and I came home to see that they had just dumped the latest consignment of roof tiles all across our plants and flowers killing the lot in our small garden! I really just cannot understand why some people can't see and think about other people's space and belongings.
I guess trying to educate on all aspects of what could make Bali better would take a heck of a long time....
"The Javanese builders were brought here by the company we hired for the job. On day one I had to tell them not to throw their cigarette ends all over the house, inside even!! My wife and I being non smokers we hate the fact that many people here again just spark up wherever the hell they want without the slightest regard for anyone or anything around them"
Canon, have had the same problem with builders for many years> I now have a no smoking policy within my buildings and the land in general. In the beginning, they laughed, as I picked up the butts and placed them into a jar, at the end of the day, I counted them, at the end of the week I counted the number of butts between the workers, at the end of the month when it was time to be paid, I deducted money from their wages appropriate to the amount of cigarettes that had been consumed. didnt take long for my projects to be smoke free (even if I am not there!!!). I also have a sample cigarette in a jar of water, it has been there for now, uhmmm 3 years, the filter is still in tact albiet waterlogged, it is a subject of interest to anyone new to my projects...they get the message, and hopefully will spread it
Canon, have had the same problem with builders for many years> I now have a no smoking policy within my buildings and the land in general. In the beginning, they laughed, as I picked up the butts and placed them into a jar, at the end of the day, I counted them, at the end of the week I counted the number of butts between the workers, at the end of the month when it was time to be paid, I deducted money from their wages appropriate to the amount of cigarettes that had been consumed. didnt take long for my projects to be smoke free (even if I am not there!!!). I also have a sample cigarette in a jar of water, it has been there for now, uhmmm 3 years, the filter is still in tact albiet waterlogged, it is a subject of interest to anyone new to my projects...they get the message, and hopefully will spread it