Abuse of freedom in Bali Restaurants!

Tommy

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May 11, 2005
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Colin
this discussion has moved way too far off of it's original topic and is also now becoming 'bitchy' and counterproductive

Gah! Colin, i feel this discussion is important as it does bring out certain intresting aspects.:) O-T is an important part of this forum and has been so for quite some time now. :shock:


Dahlia
I am proud of it and will not let any bule or "Om Roy" tell me not to talk about it. Eventhough Roy has more knowledge about Balinese culture than I do (which is good for him), does he has the authority to tell me not to discuss about forced marriage in Bali or in other part of Indonesia???????

Is it that hard for you to admit that a "bule" knows Bali better than yourself? :? Certainly an intresting side of yourself your showing us Dahlia. I thought Om Roys point was that he knows the "drill" in Bali much better than you based on that you're not in Bali or from Bali and his own vast experience? So what if you not from Bali, so what if you don't have his knowledge.. i mean.. so what?. Why take it as an insult? You being Indonesian by blood and Roy being a bule has nothing to do with it, but you can't get away from the fact that you not being in Bali or being from Bali is relevant. Relevant but not necessarily bad in any way. :roll:
 

dahlia

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Oct 4, 2005
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Tommy,

I do not have a problem with bule knowing better than I do, that's great. I appreciate that and proud of that. In fact, a lot of bules wrote about Indonesia, the people, live, cultures, etc, and I as an Indonesian am proud that they care, and becuase of their writings people all over the world know about Indonesia.
I respect Roy for his knowledge about Balinese people and their culture, about the school,business, visa etc which are very informative, but when he said what should I do and what I shouldn't do (in this case discussing about force marriage) because I came from Kupang and not Balinese??, that's arrogant and discriminatif.


Thank you
 

Tommy

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May 11, 2005
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Ok, i'm not to say how you should interpret his words, but, i didn't read it as discriminative... abit blunt maybe, but not discriminative. I read it as if Om Roy was saying "you don't know what you're talking about.. at least when it comes to Bali" and nothing else.

Anyway, it's not like we're competing about who knows the most or who is the most "genuine" balinese or indonesian. It's about what we have become, have the potential to become, how we live, dream and think... and no pasport or ktp can ever show this. There are some issues in these recent posts i find intriguing and abit disturbing. I'ill start up a another topic with a few points and views on that within short... :idea:

For now let's put this all behind us and move on. No regrets. Have a great weekend all!
 

jogry blok

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Sep 28, 2005
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Dencarick
Hi Colin,
I fully agree with your statement. Passive smoking is the worst.!! I get angry too when I have to inhale someone elses smoke, there is already enough polution.
It is time that we can have smokers and non smokers areas in restaurant, not everyone want to sit outside because of no airconditioner.
Asia will have in the future the highest rate of lung cancer.
It is a shame, Bali is beautiful so are its people.
 

Sergio

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Dec 6, 2004
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Asia will have in the future the highest rate of lung cancer.
Interesting, why don't they have this now then?... it is not like Asians started smoking yesteday.

I am not promoting smoking, was an honest question.
 

ColinF

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Jan 12, 2006
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I seem to recall reading recently that it is indeed the number one killer of men in Indonesia - number one killer of women is cervical cancer with, I believe, breast cancer at number 2. One reason given for the high mortality rate from cancer is the lack of early testing and diagnosis facilities for the poorer people, plus a total absence of any heallth education regarding tobacco and it's cancer relationship.
Colin. :(
 

Dyah

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Dec 29, 2005
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www.ikat-agentur.com
and ... Indonesia as third land in the world with majority tuberkulosis. ... and many people don´t know that this virus can attackt the other organ (not only lung), like example skin disease...
And smoking is one of the reason. I´m not smoker, neither my husband now ... but i can prohibe the smoker ...
 

ColinF

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Jan 12, 2006
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Hello Jagry, and thanks for your support. As you say, there is already enough polution - another of my pet hates.
Seems to me the main reason for the lack of action on separate facilities for non-smokers is so very many Indonesians smoke that those who don't tend to view themselves as the ones who are not 'normal', and Indonesians in general anyway are extremely loth to stand up for themselves - you only have to see the daily TV news and newspaper reports of inhuman treatment of employees etc to see that. So I feel that any movement toward demanding smoke-free sections etc has to start with expats and tourists. For sure, if a restaurant owner/manager or shop owner felt that his income was likely to be impacted by the presence or lack of this facility, he'd waste little time in creating one! Money talks, as they say, and it wouldn't need many groups to turn away and find another restaurant to start the ball rolling. Of course, on the other hand, right now in Sanur and other non-Kuta-esque areas, you can easily find plenty of places where you are the only customers anyway!!
Colin.
 

Roy

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Nov 5, 2002
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Of course, on the other hand, right now in Sanur and other non-Kuta-esque areas, you can easily find plenty of places where you are the only customers anyway!!

Which kind of begs the question...why this string got started in the first place! :p :p :p

Just kidding Colin! :D
 

ColinF

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Jan 12, 2006
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Yes.....I guess I asked for that, thanks Roy! :roll: :wink:
However, restaurants totally devoid of customers would have been a laughable concept just 3 or 4 years ago; that we now see it everywhere as a matter of course is a very clear indication of how very hard Bali has been hit - it is also a reminder to be very much more selective in your choice of eating house these days; staff in many of the smaller places often see no wrong in returning thawed meat etc to the freezer to await another day, or even to keep it there indefinitely! :shock:
But when things do return to normal(think positive!!) I would love to be able to dine anywhere I choose without having to sit outside sharing my table with nyamuk and tikus, or inside with......asap!! :cry: :( :wink:
Selamat makan!....Colin.
 

Roy

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Nov 5, 2002
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it is also a reminder to be very much more selective in your choice of eating house these days; staff in many of the smaller places often see no wrong in returning thawed meat etc to the freezer to await another day, or even to keep it there indefinitely!

Well put...and this Formulan issue is no laughing matter either! For now, I will not try out new places to eat...period. I only eat out at those places where I know the owner/manager well, and they have already "suffered the slings and arrows" of the past...and survived.
 

ColinF

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Jan 12, 2006
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I understand from yesterday's Jakarta Post that there were 5 places in DPS found to be selling formalin (Formaldehyde) contaminated food. And that, of course, was only the ones that were caught red handed(or couldn't afford to be removed from the list!). About 6 months ago we bought frozen fish in Bali's largest "cash & carry"(the only one?) which when cooked tasted strongly of chemicals. It was of course trash-canned immediatel, even by-passing our Golden Retriever-shaped 'leftovers' disposal unit! :oops: But the message is plain; if the stuff can be found in food from places like that extra care is needed everywhere. There was no 'formalin scare' at that time but the aroma/taste seemed somewhat familiar - I now recognise it for what it was! :idea:
Colin
 

Roy

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Nov 5, 2002
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The Bali Post is doing an EXCELLENT job of carrying this Formulin story. Most recently a raid at what is otherwise considered a very good and reliable place to buy fresh fish, the Pasar Badung in Denpasar was found with Formulin contaminated fish. Even a recent test at Makro revealed Formulin.

I'm thinking it's time for me to dig out my rods and reels, and head for my friend's boat! :shock:

To be honest, right now, my wife is not buying fresh fish or shrimp at any market. If we feel the great urge to have fish, it's off to one of the restaurants where we know the owner is testing his product before it is purchased, cooked and served.
 

Kadek

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Dec 6, 2005
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Australia
Re: RE: Abuse of freedom in Bali Restaurants!

Hi All,

Greetings to all the new members
Well, it seems that I have missed quite a lot after several days of not checking the Forum.

Gee, what’s happening, the mood seems a little tense in here. Smokers and passive smoking! Arranged marriages? Some very interesting view points on these subjects. :shock:

Passive Smoking

I am neither a smoker nor drink much alcohol (except for celebratory toasts), but it is interesting that is does go hand in hand and in the case of Bali, smoking goes hand in hand with drinking coffee (which I am also not).

So it is interesting how these different addictions can combined so perfectly! Is there any scientific study which looks into this issue? I would be interested to read about it!

But I agree that smokes polluted air causes a lot of discomfort to non-smokers not to mention if one has respiratory condition. Several of my family members are smokers both here in Oz and in Bali. And they will testify that I complained so much about this, they are fed up with me complaining. They don’t stop anyway - so I have stopped complaining. My uncle said that smoking Indonesian cigarettes here, reminds him of Bali. Well, that tells me how smelly Bali must be of cigarette smokes…….ha……..ha………ha…….lol. :shock: I can’t really relate to this statement. As for me the smell of Dupa is what reminds me of home.

So my recommendation – be a chocoholic and you won’t need the other addictions! And according to some studies, chocolate is good for our health. More importantly, it will solve the dispute we have here in this thread as it won’t bother anyone or causes passive side effect to bystanders and nor will it get you in trouble for drinking under the influence. 8)

The perfect solution! Ummm yum…….yum……! :p

Roy said:
The Bali Post is doing an EXCELLENT job of carrying this Formulin story. Most recently a raid at what is otherwise considered a very good and reliable place to buy fresh fish, the Pasar Badung in Denpasar was found with Formulin contaminated fish. Even a recent test at Makro revealed Formulin.

Yes, it is interesting to follow how this saga will end and if those guilty will be prosecuted. But I guess, as Balipost said, many of the businesses caught doing this illegal acts, don't even have permits to start with. It will be difficult to enforce a penalty. :shock:

But I will certainly avoid these products when I go home. I guess suspicion was already there long ago - especially with Bakso as it is common knowledge the they put "something" to make it taste like meat and have the consistency of meat???? Event Bakso ayam don't look anything like it has been been with chicken meat????? :shock:
 

Roy

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Nov 5, 2002
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nor will it get you in trouble for drinking under the influence.

My dear Kadek...you've been in OZ toooooo long. Time to come home! :D

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. That was just oh so cute and charming! You may want to hang onto that line in case you have too many toasts one night in OZ. If I were a cop down there and pulled you over, that line would get you off the hook in a New York second!
 

Kadek

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Dec 6, 2005
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Well, this is probably back tracking a little. But the issues of arrange marriages and inheritance are important. Sorry if this is going to cause more angst. Well, I hope not. As what I am about to say it only my observation, nothing more. Perhaps it can be of any use.

Now to arranged marriages

To my knowledge, where I came from (which is Ubud, same as Om Roy) I don’t know of anyone or heard of anyone who has been forced into marriages. It is a shock to me and is indeed very sad, that this is still happening to a 14 years old girl!

What I do know – and I guess this is not only true in Bali but also here in OZ, is that the elderly people always try to be “matchmakers”.

And if you are like me, being 26 and still single, you will attract more of this than you care to receive. This is the only thing that I dread going home to Bali. People always ask questions about when I will be married – heck, how can I, I haven’t even found Mr. Right as yet, or they make suggestions and offered their nephews for considerations. I don’t take offence of these, as they probably mean well and I take it as compliment that they consider me as interesting enough to want me to be part of their family.

But no forcing was visible ………just quick notes on conversations and passing suggestions!!! Pheww………hh…… :shock: :roll:

Perhaps arrange marriage has its place??????? I will certainly start begging my family to do so – if nearing 30, I still haven’t found my Mr. Right……………..ha……….ha…..

Well, I am glad to have my forum sister and fellow Balinese Angels Ni Luh as my forum “Matchmaker”……………..lol. :lol: I am not implying that you are elderly Ni Luh...... maaf.


Now to family inheritance

Neither have I heard of widows being denied their homes and property and valuables once their husbands passed away.

I guess, the system is very different to here in the West – where parents (husband) leave a will which will determine who got what when he died. Not so in Bali – perhaps now it is increasingly become common – I think it’s good to prevent family feud.

I will attempt to describe what I know of how the family succession goes in Bali (at least in my village – or maybe in my family).

In Bali, sons don’t generally move out of their parents’ compound even after marriage – except if he can afford to or he is not the only son in the family (as is the case with my dad). So in a Balinese compound, there can be many families living together in separate homes/buildings. So when the mother becomes a widow due to her husband passing away; one of the sons – either the oldest or youngest depending on the custom in the village (or if there is only one then obviously him) will take full responsibility of the main household.

That means looking after the mother for the rest of her live, being the head of family and takes care of the family temple etc, etc. So what is the role of the rest of the sons? Well, they are considered as “Ngempian” in that compound – they have limited responsibility to the looking after of the main household, except of their own buildings and also are considered as half member of the Banjar (by this I mean – there are different Adat law which rule this different aspects e.g. those who are ngempians don’t have to pay as much on Banjar’s contribution, etc.

So obviously any other properties left behind (e.g. sawah) will disproportionately be given to one taking the full responsibility as compensation for taking this duty. However, this does not necessarily mean that the other children will not get anything. For example, if the family decides to sell the sawah – then everybody will have to agree to do this and each will receive a portion of the sale (including the women) – not necessarily equal portions. I guess it depends on your take of the responsibility that has been left behind. Many family disputes have resulted from lack of clear mandate prior to the father passing away. For example, perhaps some members of the family will only care to take the inheritance in terms of properties etc, but not wanting a bar of the responsibility that comes with it. I guess, the example here would be, putting your mother in an age care home and let “the system” care for her, but still take the inheritance that is left behind after your father passed away.

So clear mandate from the father and clear succession is necessary to avoid disputes. I guess even with a will dispute can still occur.

Now to Om Roy

Hey! Ask Ni Luh or Kadek. Why do they call me Om Roy? They call me Om Roy out of their respect for my knowledge and adoption of the Balinese culture. Both my sisters in law call me Om Roy. Does that make my knees wobble a litttle bit? You bet it does. I have a reputation to live up to, both within my banjar, and the greater community of Ubud.

Tommy writes:
Why shouldn't Om Roy have become an expert on Balinese culture? You said it yourself.. almost a decade.. balinese wife and big family, being hindu, having vast knowledge of balinese & indonesian history etc etc. That should most certainly make a person qualify as a baliense expert? .. or more simply put.. as a balinese.

I agree with Tommy. And it is true that I do respect Om Roy (or any other people be they are “bule” or “other Indonesian”) that he has so willingly and proudly adopted Balinese culture. Not only that, through his various postings, Om Roy seems to practice it with great devotion and pride that would make any Balinese who dare to abandon their culture shameful.

So thank you for your passion for our Balinese culture Om Roy. I am very proud and wish that there are many more like you. :p :D
Best Regards
Kadek
 

Kadek

Member
Dec 6, 2005
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Australia
Re: RE: Abuse of freedom in Bali Restaurants!

Roy said:
nor will it get you in trouble for drinking under the influence.

My dear Kadek...you've been in OZ toooooo long. Time to come home! :D

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. That was just oh so cute and charming! You may want to hang onto that line in case you have too many toasts one night in OZ. If I were a cop down there and pulled you over, that line would get you off the hook in a New York second!

Sorry I meant "for driving under the influence". :oops:

Best Regards
Kadek
 

Kadek

Member
Dec 6, 2005
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Australia
But, I could see my self drinking under the influence and being in trouble for it............ha........ha

Thanks Om Roy, ya it is time to go home. :(
Kadek
 

pooochie

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Aug 8, 2005
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Hi Kadek

Good to hear from you. Where have you been girlfriend?

Kadek said:
Gee, what’s happening, the mood seems a little tense in here.

Yes, indeed. I wrote a post for this thread but decided to go for a swim before posting it. Upon my return Tommy asked readers to “move on” so I decided not to post it. I was a bit unsure as whether it is my privy to tell in public about my family. I do generally agree with what you said. Just to add a bit in Java, based on my personal observations (years ago), arranged marriages commonly happened ref: bibit, bobot, bebet.

Kadek said:
Well, I am glad to have my forum sister and fellow Balinese Angels Ni Luh as my forum “Matchmaker”……………..lol. I am not implying that you are elderly Ni Luh...... maaf.

Kadek, it is my pleasure to have you as my forum sister. I have always enjoyed your writing and re. elderly Ni Luh: I may be a slight older than you but trust me I am still none-the-wiser.

Years ago back in college I was asked to introduce my male friend to my girlfriend “kenalin dong”. I did just that and it was a lot of fun. Naturally I continued on…Kadek I will fix you up whenever you call for my help. Jabber has a cousin in Sydney (don’t worry Oom Roy he is not of criminal descent – he has Viking blood). He is younger than Thorsten’s but more importantly he loves Bali and visits Bali often. What do you think? He is very good looking actually more like Brad Pitt (from a distance). I could just picture Brad and Angelina now….babies too. What do you think?

I don’t know whether you miss the following string but our Oom Roy thinks we are pinning over Thorsten.

Roy said:
As far as I know, none of the "Bali Angels” have children, but if they care to speculate what their decisions would be, I for one, would love to hear more from them than pining over Thorsten.

Oom Roy, Thorsten is charming and fun: we trust you looked after him at Nuris. Most importantly he has been a sweetie to the Balinese Angels so we just returning his courtesy. Bless his heart…..

re. kids: this is a bit personal all I can say my parents been asking for years, they too want to know the answer, but I am the one who is not ready for it. I did married jabber when I was 22 but as he proposed to me he said this marriage is about adventure and fun not so much to tie me down with the nourishment side of the marriage i.e. kids, cooking and ironing, etc. We are just taking our time.

Kadek, if it is not too personal what is your view on “marriage and kids”? I think this thread is relevant as we are talking about marriages too. Maybe we can get the men to talk about nappies/diaper problems in Bali :shock: :lol: I am sure Oom Roy and Bapak Jimbo can do some posts and help prepare Tommy for his not too distant future :) :lol:

Roy said:
Hey! Ask Ni Luh or Kadek. Why do they call me Om Roy?

We do this because he is wise and knowledgeable. He is to be respected with his ways. They may be strong but this is good as he is our warrior protector. He is like an automatic defence mechanism built into the forum, with no buttons needing to be pressed. Any bullshit posted is automatically dealt with in a severe and concise manner :lol: Amazingly it seems he is very rarely wrong. When he is, as I have seen with an earlier posting against Tommy on the Balinese language, he retracted and admitted that he was. Most people tend to become experts in certain areas, usually their profession, I think with Oom Roy his expertise has certainly diversified into the “Balinese Culture”.


Welcome Colin

I have been reading your posts. I look forward to hearing of your experiences in Bali.

Best wishes
Ni Luh
 
G

Guest

Guest
Thank you, Ni Luh, and I shall try not to disappoint you. However, I will most likely NOT become involved in any children/nappies/diapers thread - I am not a "children" person. Don't get me wrong, I don't despise or hate the little #!@**&^%$......dears :wink: , but one of my pet hates is indiscipline, especially when it impacts others, and it seems to be a global feature of child rearing these days. It is particularly bad here in Indonesia (locals and expats alike) so I try to avoid putting myself in their "area of influence", as it were. :roll: Yes, I am married, and my wife is Indonesian, but we decided 13 years ago that it was neither the time or situation to have them and have quite settled in our way now. We don't miss them and my Indonesian family learned long ago to warn us before any visits, so I get plenty of time to go and do some work on the boat, or take the dog for a long walk. (Which is a shame because HE just adores children!)
Now, if you want to talk about Golden Retrievers etc, then I'm your man! :lol: :wink:
Colin