RE humor in the NYT

[DCC]

Here's a recent entry from the NYT RE Blog, I've pasted the good parts!

It seams the Bali market has remained strong....what market could they be speaking of? When I moved here in '05 I was always checking the listings of Elite & Exotiq and there were at best 4 or 5 listings over the $1mil mark. No history to gauge in my opinion ! And $1,400 - $2,200 per night?

But they say the buyers are looking - I have a vision of tour guides leading groups through the padis and down the beaches in search of that elusive $3.5 million dollar Bali crib!

That should not be too much of a chore though because here we are 4 years later and I just checked to see that Exotiq has 6 PAGES of homes topping a million. Plenty of product for those happy HK & S'pore banking execs

http://raisingtheroof.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/snapshot-beachfront-villas-in-bali/

Since the project was completed in August 2008, three of the villas have sold; the remaining two are priced at $3.7 million and $3.4 million (2.8 million euro and 2.6 million euro). The initial buyers have come from Hong Kong, New York and Europe, Mr. Echene said.

Buyers have been looking for second homes, as well as rental income, Mr. Echene said. Units rent for between $1,400 and $2,200 a night (1,000 euro and 1,700 euro), depending on the season.

The Bali market has managed to remain strong, despite the downtown, Mr. Echene says. Finding actual data on Bali is difficult, but a case can be made that it will be more resilient than many markets. The villas in Pantai Lima are offered on a freehold basis, but buying property in Bali can be tricky for foreigners. More information on buying in Bali can be found here.

 

[Markit]

I sometimes think there is a whole different race of humans that are running around this planet that really don't have anything to do with my and my friends and family's ideas of "reality".

During the financial hay days of the recent past there were many of the "Lords of the Universe" or leaders of the big financial houses as they were known then (don't times change :cry: ) who not having the time to go themselves, would buy multi-million dollar houses on Majorca or near London sight unseen. They would simply call up the estate agent and say "I'll have that one, send the contracts".

Is it me? or do these people come from some kind of cocoon under the bed?

DCC what do you put the change in Exotiq's offer down to?
1) increased activity in the sales of high value homes - more on offer due to hard times ie forced sales or more being built (due to better sales chances?)
2) Success of Exotiq's marketing department in attracting sellers?

I know personally of a series of 3 beachfront villas that cost each 1.5 billion to build and were each on sale for 600 - 700 K USD. Building has stopped on 2 and the first finished one is being used as a show home for potential buyers that aren't to thick on the ground, it would seem...

 

[DCC]

I think it's a number of factors - more wannabe developers throwing larger amounts of money on the ground and expecting it double - people listening to RE agents for investment advice (that advice is a criminal act in many countries) - and people listening to RE agents about the "hot" Bukit cuz that's where many of these houses are located, crowded with spec homes but not residents me thinks (what the hell is there to do on the Bukit if you're not a world class surfer?)

 

[sydneymike]

Hey DCC, as a Developer/Builder you should be enjoying the market?

The fact is, there is a difference between value for money and market value? The Bali property market, unlike Jakarta, is driven by foreigners in terms of both practises and valuations. There is only one Bali, which is why we all want to be here, until of course over-development destroys the very reasons to be here? Bali is small and so prices rise, pushing up land taxes and forcing the Balinese off their land, either to cash in or because farming no longer covers land taxes and makes a living. That's the free markets in action? And remeber there is a lot of money in the world, even now

Agree about Bukit but would add that even if you are a world class surfer you must be prepared to drive every time you want eat out and must remember to get regular water truck deliveries if you want to shower etc. I guess the people there are prepared just to sit and look at the view 24/7?

Similarly, I can't understand why people will pay $600K-$2Million for little villas in Seminyak with poor quality construction and "designs" which are essentially all the same (Pool Bale, token Kamboja in the corner etc.) only to find someone else has just built another villa with an 18Ft wall between you and the Sawah. Then the increasing noise, crime and pollution etc. Paradise found?

And this is all before the legal problems with Nominees start to happen, as they now already are.

But then you know all this DCC. It's really all just a case of "Caveat Emptor"? But if the SIN/HKG Bankers want to get screwed and throw their money away, IMHO, it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of Guys!!

 

[Anton]

Must be nice being a banker being able to play monopoly for real with other people's money :lol:
I wonder how many of us would enjoy this life

Maybe in the next life :mrgreen:




Nantiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

 

[gilbert de jong]

Hi peeps,

I see you asked DCC, but if you don;t mind I put my two cents in too, :lol:

DCC what do you put the change in Exotiq's offer down to?
1) increased activity in the sales of high value homes - more on offer due to hard times ie forced sales or more being built (due to better sales chances?)
2) Success of Exotiq's marketing department in attracting sellers?

1) I think there's more available to buy for the simple reason that more houses have been build, the reason that the owners "advertise" at Exotiq's is because of the "sort of people" the owners want to reach.
2) I think (know) that it's a small world in the upper-class real-estate, and many owners (investers) know who's who and throw business to one another, if you know what I mean?

Sidneymike, I am not on a personal crusade against you or the opinions you state here on the forum, that being said I would like to react/give my opinion, to some things you wrote....

There is only one Bali, which is why we all want to be here, until of course over-development destroys the very reasons to be here?

Me personally am not on Bali because there is only one Bali :roll: , there's also one Ibiza, one Curacao, one etcetc...Over-development, like discussed on the Haiti thread, I think that will take a few generations to come. ow and landtaxes, come on... do you know how much tax I pay for 50 are full of clove threes? only 100.000 rupiah per year, and income from selling the clove is about 15 juta per year, so the taxes are not a reason for local people to sell their land. 'Cashing in' might be a reason though.

Agree about Bukit but would add that even if you are a world class surfer you must be prepared to drive every time you want eat out and must remember to get regular water truck deliveries if you want to shower etc. I guess the people there are prepared just to sit and look at the view 24/7?

didn't know that surfers took showers, :lol: , just joking. but people who live up there probably have drivers if they want to go out for diner, and if they eat in...for sure they have a cook and waiter in the staff. As for the water-delivery, don't think they themself bother with taking care of that either.

Similarly, I can't understand why people will pay $600K-$2Million for little villas in Seminyak with poor quality construction and "designs" which are essentially all the same (Pool Bale, token Kamboja in the corner etc.) only to find someone else has just built another villa with an 18Ft wall between you and the Sawah. Then the increasing noise, crime and pollution etc.

I totally agree with you, I don't understand that either.

And this is all before the legal problems with Nominees start to happen, as they now already are.

What do you mean? as they now already are...

But if the SIN/HKG Bankers want to get screwed and throw their money away, IMHO, it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of Guys!!

Well the bankers don't get screwed, but the normal-income people, who worked hard to retire on Bali and because of the developers and bankers, their budget (pension and savings) isn't enough anymore to realize their dream.

I sometimes think there is a whole different race of humans that are running around this planet that really don't have anything to do with my and my friends and family's ideas of "reality".

See, I knew it there is paralel universe.. :lol: :lol: , just joking Markit. Reality is for everyone something else, I mean it's relative isn't it?

Must be nice being a banker being able to play monopoly for real with other people's money
I wonder how many of us would enjoy this life

I don't know if they play with someone else's money, they do have an exesive expense-account and salary :lol: .
One enjoy's what one is custom to, know what I mean? From the outside looking in, it might seem extravagant lifestyle, but if one is on the inside...it's normal. And sometimes looking in, it all seems like to good to be true, so it probably is. Who knows what kind of things they do in Daily life, to sustain credibility, gain respect etcetc...?? Wanna trade with those guys...me personally, NEVER. But hell, they probabaly wouldn't wanna trade places with me either, hahahaha :lol: :lol: .
Take care forum-buddies, friendly greetings.......Gilbert.

 

[sydneymike]

Sidneymike, I am not on a personal crusade against you or the opinions you state here on the forum, that being said I would like to react/give my opinion, to some things you wrote....

Hi Gil,

From my posts you know me well enough that I dont particularly give a stuff what you think about my opinions.

That having been said, you have written a long tedious post which, frankly, has added nothing to the thread other than apparently everyone who lives in Bukit has hot and cold servants to do everything for them on demand, which apparently, therefore makes it wonderful place to live (Otherwise your comments would serve no purpose).

Other than that, I have expressed my views and have nothing further to add, so please feel free to have the last word as usuaI.
Incidentally, the City of God is spelt Sydney not Sidney as you write.

 

[Alexandre]

why this jealousy towards bankers? I'll never get it.

I guess that's the world we live in, some people are more successful than others.

 

[gilbert de jong]

:lol: :lol: ....Yeah I think I know sYdneymike, You only care about your own opinion, or people who think he same way as you :roll: . My post became so long because some things in your post don't make sense, and some things are just completely wrong, so I had to use the "quote option alot in your post :lol:...I hate repeating myself so I wont do that, even though I think I am dealing with a small-minded person or a twelve y.o.
as for the 'my post not adding anything', maybe that's because you're not reading well enough? although you did catch the i instead of the y, :lol; so it must have been you got confused reading your own opinions in my post :?: Oh yeah, and for me wanting to have the last word...thank you so much citizen of the city of god :lol: :lol: . btw, you're still not over it...me being 34 and not having to work anymore, having a business not touched by financial crisis :lol: :twisted:

Hi Alexandre, me personally am not jealous at all at bankers, I just couldn't handle a 9-17 deskjob, no matter what perks they would throw at me, and therefor wouldn't want to trade places with one.

Friendly greetings, Gilbert.

 

[troy]

Sydneymike, I think Gil's post added a whole lot more valuable content to this thread than yours.

He was also able to express his views without sounding like a jealous child.

Bukit, Canggu, Seminyak, Sanur, Ubud - it's all a matter of taste, each offers something different and if the Bukit wasn't seen as a prime spot, developers wouldn't be building and marketing rather expensive homes there. If you don't like it or can't afford it, buy elsewhwere.

Troy F.

 

[sydneymike]

I wasn't going to respond but I think I should restate my opinions because I actaully agree with most of what is being said. As follows:

1. Bali is a unique place which makes people want to be here. Yes, Ibiza etc are unique also in their own ways but for many reasons Bali has its own followers.
2. The Bali property market is driven by foreign investment and so prices here reflect the world market. It's a big market and there is room for everyone.
3.There is a difference between market value and value for money and IMHO prices in Seminyak do not represent value for money. To each his own but this is my opinion.
4. I share DCC's view that Bukit is not an attractive place to live, for the reasons stated to reinforce DCC's comments. Again, to each his own but this is my opinion.
5. I believe it to be in everyone's best interest to develop and enforce zoning regulations so as to protect the Balinese and maintain a responsible balance between development and preserving the environment.

That is the total extent of my views, please read again my OP if in doubt. I don't really see my opinions as being terribly radical but, I guess if so, so be it.

 

[mimpimanis]

I like living on the Bukit.

I dont surf
I dont have a driver or a waiter... though I do have an all round pembantu
I dont look at the view 24/7 much too busy with a 3 year old. But when I do sit down and look at the view especially at sunset I feel privilledged to be able to do so.

Also the breeze up here makes it much more comfortable for me than down on the flats!

 

[DCC]

Alex - Do you follow current events? My original banker reference was t indicate that an entire class of RE investor (?) and their product are history, at least for now. I, for one, am not jealous - but I was certainly dismayed when the primary value of housing shifted from that of shelter and became a hot investment be traded like stock, need I point out the resulting catastrophe...and in the US that can be laid directly on the doorstep of the Fed and the Banks. Don't know what your definition of success is?

Mims - Sorry if I took liberties. The bukit aint for me, nor is any coastal area here, but more power to you if you've found a place that says home - that is a fine thing! Please forgive.

I took aim at the bukit because for the last 2 or 3 years RE agencies have been hyping it, and the hype paid off, creating a feeding frenzy. Then they used the resulting run up in land prices to claim outrageous returns are available to anyone buying anything their office has listed. I took aim with Exotic because they are claiming just that in a big way right now in an effort to, I’m believe, keep afloat. I wonder what they’re telling folks who invested heavily in Lombok because it was a sure thing. And I wonder if their office there is shuttered yet.

Mike - I'm low low volume and have always focused on building primary residences, not resort party palaces . Knock wood - I moved here in '05 from Florida, my timing could not have been better – but it was just plain dumb luck. I then chose to shift focus to smaller more earth sensitive houses only because that’s what I want for myself, and it’s a niche I’m well versed in – again with the dumb luck .

Bottom line for me is - people buying residential property for which they have no intention of using is a little absurd, when it becomes a movement look out; a little like musical chairs. The history of expats building in Bali is because they want to live here – that’s the great reward. That’s what Mike was 1st referring to, no? Gil - Don't know why you got on him, I thought his points were relevant, seams we're all on the same page. Anyway, IMHO expats making Bali a more or less permanent address are, in general, a good thing for the island – Bali is most certainly not being paved over with homes sweet homes. It’s being raped commercially – whether residential, tourist, or retail – and it’s being done from within and from without. Promoting it as “Hot Property” is part of that problem.

 

[mimpimanis]

DCC said

Mims - Sorry if I took liberties. The bukit aint for me, nor is any coastal area here, but more power to you if you've found a place that says home - that is a fine thing! Please forgive.

Nothing to forgive The bukit isnt for you anymore than Kuta, Legian, Seminyak are for me.

I took aim with Exotic because they are claiming just that in a big way right now in an effort to, I’m believe, keep afloat. I wonder what they’re telling folks who invested heavily in Lombok because it was a sure thing. And I wonder if their office there is shuttered yet.

I heard (but dont know how true it is) That the Exotic staff were run out of their base in Novotel by a bunch of angry machete wielding locals.

 

[Petenjo]

"And this is all before the legal problems with Nominees start to happen, as they now already are."

Sydneymike - I havent heard anything about recent problems with nominees. Is this detailed elsewhere in the forum or could you elaborate?

 

[gilbert de jong]

Gil - Don't know why you got on him, I thought his points were relevant, seams we're all on the same page.

My post wasn't even close to getting on someone's back :lol: , in his first post there were "only" three parts that were based on wrong info...the taxes part, the bankers getting screwed and then some shady comment about nominee trouble :? . These three parts he left out of his thirth post...the summary of points. And although SM doesn't care about my opinion, I agree with the points he made there.
If you meant my other post in regards to SM reaction to my post, that's a simple action-reaction matter and still I didn't really go off on him.
So to make a long story short, I think were on the same page .