Indo enactment regarding Porn

[Py]

I personally believe that one should have faith in the Indonesian temprament. Wahhabism was born and took root in the harsh desert climates of the Arabian Penninsula, its footing has no real purchase with the elastic temprment of this tropical 'rakyat'. Plain and simple, this is political manuvering that will have no real legs when it hits the ground. This is of course my opinion, but there is no way in hell 'kotekas' are goining to be covered up in the Balien valley, movable phalluses removed from traditional wayan kulit figures or tourists told to cover up on the beaches of Bali. I have too much faith in the Indonesian people in not being swayed by this kind of sciolistic idiocy. We see this semi-regularly in the U.S. as well. I personally lived throught the National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) wars in the 80's that pitched the religious right against the arts and any government involvement in any creative endeavor that in anyway smacked of immorality or sedition.
Then as now, a comprehensive and rigorous working definition must be laid out as to the perameters of exactly what and what does not constitute pornography. And that is a very complex issue.

 

[JAMIE]

Py ..as Roy said welcome back , being only a lurker wannabe , Im not sure I have the right to welcome your back ? I whats done is done . Ive missed your posts , you and somany other "regulars" are so very good at writing your thoughts. I look foward to reading you more in the future . Logic tells me that your right in saying "this baby wont crawl" , but living threw the thoughts that it might are lost for me . I thought we had problems with the right wing here in the USA , this takes the cake though . I think a belly button ,sit in , protest is in order !! ( then again I just looked at my belly button , maybe this law should stand for some of us )

 

[Roy]

Py,

Then as now, a comprehensive and rigorous working definition must be laid out as to the perameters of exactly what and what does not constitute pornography. And that is a very complex issue.

Well put. In an earlier post I made the point that personally, I would not want to be challenged to define pornography. It’s a “know it when you see it” issue, and what is pornography for one, is art to another.

As Smusdar correctly pointed out, this whole issue has hit the fan like a handful of sh*t due to the possibility of an Indonesian issue of Playboy becoming available here. Playboy is not pornography, in my view.

Just for fun, I put together several paintings offered by the auction house, Larasati in their Ocotber 2000 sale held in Jakarta. Except for the Hofker, which is the second painting, all the others are by Indonesian artists. The first piece, titled, “Nudity” was painted by the very well known artist, Basoeki Abdullah, and it fetched 240 million rupiah. Under this new proposed law, all of these artists, and their models, would be subject to imprisonment. So would the folks who run Larasati auctions for exhibiting and selling such work. So might I for having in my library art books containing illustrations of these paintings.

Does anyone really think that such art contributes to an increase of rape, or the destruction of morals in an open and democratic society?

Py, I hope you are right, that cooler heads will prevail, and a reasonable law, thoughtfully crafted, will be eventually passed. My concern is with the first draft, which in any democratic country would be considered as outrageous and should have never been drafted in the first place.

http://www.sundream.com/~majapahit/images/Indonudes.jpg

 

[ColinF]

Seems this whole outrageous piece of 14th century bigotry was in process of being very quietly slipped through without proper open debate.....that is, until the Playboy thing surfaced and, as you so delightfully put it, Roy, the sh*t hit the fan! We can only hope that Playboy has done the country a favour by revealing what was happening.
Two questions: (a) How could such a situation arise in the first place - are there no set procedures whereby such totally unacceptable proposals are weeded out before wasting legislators' valuable time?
(b) Indonesia was quite recently lauded by the international police forces and parents worldwide for it's tough stand on Paedophillia and it's assistance in rounding up and recapturing several escaped paedophiles already hiding here and attempting to satisfy their sick, disgusting fantasies. How then, could intelligent legislators propose a change in the law which would reduce the age of consent from a reasonable 18 to 12yrs - thus legalizing paedophillia?!
Excuse me...I feel a little sick!!
Colin.

 

[Roy]

Colin, I can't answer your a and b questions. Those questions have me by the "short hairs" as well.

I do agree with you and Py, that being, there is no way the initial draft form of this proposed law will ever make it to a vote by the central legislative branch.

Funny, isn't it, how Indonesia has done very well without such a law for all these years?

 

[Richard Kalibukbuk]

I got into a discussion with some of my Balinese tennis friends about this and the best comment made was that it is usually the person who is looking at whatever that makes it into porn through his thoughts, i.e. two different people looking at the same thing, one will turn it into porn through his thoughts, the other might just see it as art. So its like ‘beauty is in the eye of the beholder’.

Balinese often bathe communally and in the open and if you see someone bathing it is considered you do not stare but just ignore, as this is a normal occurrence. Low and behold if you start staring, or even worse bring out a camera and then you will surely see some anger from the person bathing.

Lets hope this unbelievably stupid piece of legislation gets thrown into the rubbish bin.

 

[Roy]

Oh, and for Made...I thought it was South Dakota that recently passed this medieval abortion law...not North Dakota. Analysts are saying that it is a move, by the South Dakota legislature to force the Supreme Court to re-visit Roe vs. Wade. It won’t happen, and even if it did, the majority of the sitting judges on the SC voted in favor on that action.

Oddly enough, but totally understandable, most abortions being done in South Dakota are by physicians from other states.

 

[swt]

Hi everyone, I wanted to openly apologise if I have offended anyone on this forum as someone from this forum has stated that I have plagerised something from this forum.

I posted a message on the Bali Travel Forum about what Smusdar had written regarding the porn and yes although most was in my own words the articles and some of the words were hers, I raised this as an issue for discussion and was then slammed by someone who stated I should have quoted the original source. I never claimed it was mine I said "Apparently......... anyway I hope that this is not an issue for anyone here, I certainly never thought it would be but someone thinks it is and well the only person I am concerned about is Smusdar, so my apologies if this in some way causes you concern. You are welcome to read what I wrote and the response I got.... http://www.balitravelforum.com .....

kind regards
swt

 

[Bert Vierstra]

Well, please don't cross post on forums....

And no copies and pastes !

And if you do use text posted by member here, permission is needed, mentioning a source would be nice and , if a forum admin doesn't allow this, just say name and "other Bali forum"...

In this case its not really "original text", but about (translated) laws, but anyway...

 

[bolli]

I don't understand. If you found it interesting and wanted to discuss it, why didn't you do so here where you read it??? :roll:

 

[Roy]

Bolli...you must be reading my mind. That's just what I was thinking.

 

[Roy]

Swt...I just read the “exchange” regarding your post on the “other” forum. It’s downright hilarious! While all the participants were arguing over your supposed “plagiarism” none were getting the point...that bikinis and speedos could become illegal in Bali.

 

[matsaleh]

Re: RE: Indo enactment regarding Porn

I posted a message on the Bali Travel Forum about what Smusdar had written regarding the porn and yes although most was in my own words the articles and some of the words were hers, I raised this as an issue for discussion and was then slammed by someone who stated I should have quoted the original source. I never claimed it was mine I said "Apparently.........

swt, my point to you on the other forum was that you blatantly copied and pasted Smusdar's interpretation of the proposed legislation, (including Smusdar's comment about certain body parts and forum admin), and passed this off as your own. No matter how you'd like to interpret it, the correct term for this is plagiarism.

I'll reiterate Bert's comments. If you wish to use text posted on this forum, please first (a) ask the writer's permission, and (b) give credit where credit is due.

 

[swt]

Part of it was copied like I have said, not all of it like another person said so perhaps she needs to get her facts straight before being so rude. I made a poor call in judgement, god forbid I am not perfect and I have apologised which is more than can be sad for many people.

I never intended that first line of the article to go in and that is the honest truth as you can see from the post I did change the wording except for the first and last line (last line was difficult for me to express any other way).

I have apologised to Smusdar the person concerned.

I made a mistake but I feel others have been outright rude and there is no need for that ....

You asked why I did not discuss it here ? Firstly I did intend to following placing the post on the Travel Forum where I did feel it would be of some interest especially with women and the attirement they wear in Bali and on the beaches there, I was then gong to return here to post however we had a lightening storm and I had to shut down the computer for a short time. Then I was so upset by what someone from this forum had written that I really did not wish to discuss the matter any further. Like I said on BTF, I openly invited those that had an issue with me to direct that issue to me at my personal email address which I supplied. The lady in question could not even do that, there is so much we can learn from the Balinese and patience, tolerance and forgiveness are some of them.

Spend time making a difference to the world and not directing hateful comments at others.....

swt..x

 

[made marko]

Roy wrote:"...getting the point...that bikinis and speedos could become illegal in Bali."( have not figured out the "paste a quote" thingy yet, -get around to it sometime...).
-anyway... is this the real point?
I am not a carpenter,nor do I know the Son of one closely.
Yet, I feel I have "hit the nail on it's head", to quote my brother again.
It is painful to me to discover (I have been naive) that I am not the only one in fear of speaking my mind in public.
To me the POINT is the direction the human race seems to be swiftly heading...
-sugested reading:
Vishnu Purana #29

 

[smusdar]

Hi all

only 2 days not getting on line(try to be more socialized in real live get off from internet & hang out with friends in mall hehehe Jim carey movie is very smart to laugh at current corporate life oops out of topic, sorry ).. found this forum which i have been posted has been so "spicy"

SWT , relax, it's okay with me..(anyway .. stil have found your posting.. :roll: ) maybe we can chat well in real life if i meet you someday

Hm, this issue (the new proposed law) not really easy to be understood and accepted by every people..

and it's not easy to make many people happy in indonesia.. too many tribes.. cultures...religion..different educational background..sometime people in Jakarta not see WELL people in other region, islands..people in jakarta totallydifferent from people in Papua (for example) if you know how many years JKT govt introduce them with "proper" clothes, change the "Koteka" ? They should realize &respect that difference

If DPR Pusat want to have an effective regulation, they should learn the phylosophy of that rule, what is the intention of the rule, and should learn what the impact of the rule..but i adobt it, you know how they can be elected as DPR ? (money politic..oops.. i hope i wont be ban by my govt..) some of the is quite competence some of them is questionable..

 

[Bert Vierstra]

god forbid I am not perfect

Join the club

 

[Roy]

My brother in law, Wayan, who is a member of the DPR in Bali was over this morning, and we chatted quite a lot about this proposed new law.

According to him, the Bali regency has already sent a “letter of rejection” to the MPR in Jakarta regarding this proposed law. Even if this absurd law was passed, in his view, it would never pass the constitutional scrutiny that would be required to enact this law.

 

[ColinF]

According to the Jakarta Post people from the group of parties proposing this law will be visiting Bali, Paua and other regencies oposed to it this week to "explain" the new laws. They state that "if everything works out as planned, the bill WILL be passed in June". Mark that..."As Planned" - not "as hoped", "As Planned", and "will be passed" - not "could be..."!!!!!!!!!
Seems to me this is already a done deal - this dreadful piece of work WILL be passed, mark my words!

Colin.

 

[smusdar]

Hi all,

Hi Om Roy
As i said on friday, the coment of KOMNAS Perempuan on that draft only still in hard copy.
But if you want the draft (PDF) you can PM me.

National daily news paper Kompas again, discussed about this Law (RUU-APP).
Many organizations or groups have spoke up and met to the respective Commitee in DPR among of them is Balinese delegation (Wayan P Windia).

That's the way to give your suggentuion/ comment on that Law.

Hope that Indo govt--especially the DPR-- will be wiser to get a better solution.. (we -- indonesian-- is more except they enact effective Law to prevent corruption, at least it's my private opinion )