Human Billboards

Jimbo

Active Member
Jan 11, 2005
2,563
18
38
Manchester and Makassar
Why leave? Any forum you go on will have folks who do not agree with you. Just ignore them. If you want a place where everyone agrees you will not find it si either fight your corner or ignore them.

No need to leave though. :(
 

gilbert de jong

Active Member
Jan 20, 2009
3,198
3
36
Panji, Singaraja.
Hi y'all...

The newer harleys, the ones that are not re-wired for fitting sirens and strobelights(red/blue policelights) and such, the driving lights automatically come on when turning the key into ignition position...but most Harley-owners re-wire their bikes themself to fit those parts, and somehow they have to bypass the automatic lights-on relay...
Personally I upgraded my headlights to Halogeen lights, and the dealer said the engine must be running before turning the lights on so my lights also dont come on when I turn the key.
The Suzuki Bandit, same story...just have to switch them on manually, and I always do that btw..

As for the 'normal' bikes..I don't know how much safer the roads will become if Balinese have to turn on their lights during the day (or even in the evening, but will come back to that below)...in my opinion the law/rule (lights on daytime) in Europe and US makes sense, because roads are long and straight and lights-on helps the oncoming traffic seeing you and also it's easier to see at what speed the other one is driving...that goes for the highway, traffic coming from behind which you see in your rearview mirror coming closer, but also for the more 'dangerous' 2 lane road (no divider in the middle)...
about the lights on in the evening...let me just ask y'all how many times have you been blinded by oncoming bike/car because their lightbeams are set way to high?
Me...so many times I cant even name a number of how many times...my point you might ask yourself? I think not seeing where you're driving for 4-5 seconds is pretty unsafe...Not suggesting everybody should turn their lights off ofcourse, but instead of the police going to enforce a (in Bali) useless law (laws are being tought up in Jak isn't it?) they should try and enforce the law that headlights should be properly adjusted...Now that would make things alot safer, imho oofcourse :) .
Another thing what also would help...is an automatic turnsignal off, when the corner is taken..

as for the helmet comment....most if not all helmets worn by balinese are not tested, let alone have a ISO certification...wearing a baseball-hitter cap without a chin-strap doesnt qualify as a helmet to me....
 

bambang

Member
Jan 4, 2009
60
0
6
most if not all helmets worn by balinese are not tested
That may be true but that doesn't mean they are ineffective and only a minority wear "novelty" helmets. The government has a responsibility to mandate safety standards and that is what they are doing. Local economic factors will always have to be considered.

I haven't seen any figures for Indonesia but in Thailand the introduction of the helmet law saw motorcycle fatalities drop by @30%.

in my opinion the law/rule (lights on daytime) in Europe and US makes sense, because roads are long and straight and lights-on helps the oncoming traffic seeing you and also it's easier to see at what speed the other one is driving
Yes the law should be amended so that you only have to turn on headlights on long, straight roads. :roll:
 

lumumba

Member
Sep 17, 2008
489
4
18
Bandung-Bali-Jakarta
I do agree with Gilbert 100%

he wrote;
in Europe and US makes sense, because roads are long and straight and lights-on helps the oncoming traffic seeing you and also it's easier to see at what speed the other one is driving...that goes for the highway, traffic coming from behind which you see in your rearview mirror coming closer, but also for the more 'dangerous' 2 lane road (no divider in the middle)

He knows what he's talking about.
He wrote:
wearing a baseball-hitter cap without a chin-strap doesnt qualify as a helmet to me....

Need I say anymore

bambang wrote:
Yes the law should be amended so that you only have to turn on headlights on long, straight roads

I don't think so.................. :p
 

JohnnyCool

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2009
1,414
88
48
Sanur
Hey, udayana

Sorry to see you go, if that's your decision.

Wouldn't it be better if you told the expats here how they're misconstruing things and offending their Balinese/Indonesian hosts?

This forum started out as a Bali Expat Forum, ie, a place for expats to share their experiences and observations about their lives in Bali. Locals and other Indonesians have always been welcome. The forum expanded to include a variety of other sections, such as the Bali Travel Forum, areas for Dutch/German speakers, a Balinese part, one for Lombok, and so on.

If you can't tell when a westerner is joking or being serious, that's hardly cause to repeatedly attack them for their impropriety, (in your view). If you strike something wrong or offensive, share that with all of us. Better than picking up your toys and not playing anymore.

Cheers.

:)
 

lumumba

Member
Sep 17, 2008
489
4
18
Bandung-Bali-Jakarta
Bambang wrote:
That may be true but that doesn't mean they are ineffective and only a minority wear "novelty" helmets

Sorry to disappoint you but they are completely or almost useless/infective. They all should go through a series of hard crash/test curry out by independent company. Actually I went to see something like this in Europe: Don't pass the test=no certificate=no sale.

NO chin-strap= like not having the helmet
Put it on so you don't get a fine.............= don't care for your own life.

This is common sense
 

JohnnyCool

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2009
1,414
88
48
Sanur
Notice how many people wear helmuts now? Why? Because it became law.
Notice how many people wearing "helmets" don't do the straps up properly, if at all ? And how come one rarely, if ever, sees children wearing "helmets"?
...as for the helmet comment....most if not all helmets worn by balinese are not tested, let alone have a ISO certification...wearing a baseball-hitter cap without a chin-strap doesnt qualify as a helmet to me....
Right on the money, there, gilbert. Couldn't agree more.

In a lot of cases, the only use for a "helmet" is to scrape somebody's brains off the road after a serious "accident". If anyone can find them in the first place. Or the "helmet" itself, for that matter.

8)
 

mimpimanis

Active Member
Nov 4, 2003
2,100
0
36
Kuta, Lombok
www.mimpimanis.com
one rarely, if ever, sees children wearing "helmets"?

I am happy to say that I have seen an increase in the number of children I see wearing helmets in the last year or so. I have also noticed they are more readily available too.

Notice how many people wearing "helmets" don't do the straps up properly, if at all ?

There are more police around in Bali but in Lombok most people only wear a helmet if they are going to be passing through one of the major towns where they are likely to get stopped. My husband doesn't even feel the need then, as he is friends with most of the police. I try to drum it into him that he is not wearing the helmet to avoid a fine.. but to save his life should he have an accident. :roll:
 

motormouth

Member
Aug 29, 2009
213
0
16
Canggu
I agree Mimpimanis, using a helmet is for preserving ones life, what other protection have you got when flying over the handle bars of a motorbike. JohnnyCool pointed out the lack of children wearing helmets, I note you feel that they are increasingly wearing them. Here in Canggu it is the opposite, more and more I see 10-15 year olds riding to school with no helmets, although it is normally the boys who are the offenders, the girls seem to be much more law abiding.Which is also true for the adults as well.
 

mimpimanis

Active Member
Nov 4, 2003
2,100
0
36
Kuta, Lombok
www.mimpimanis.com
When referring to children in helmets I have to say... my mind is on my own child so I was thinking more of very young children. Under 10 years lets say. I am seeing alots of small children in helmets now. I will not allow my son to go on a bike anywhere but already at 3 he is asking to...when I say it is dangerous he says he will hold on carefully!!!! This is one battle of wills he will not win!
 

JohnnyCool

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2009
1,414
88
48
Sanur
I am happy to say that I have seen an increase in the number of children I see wearing helmets in the last year or so. I have also noticed they are more readily available too...I am seeing lots of small children in helmets now.
I guess I need to get some new prescription glasses because I'm missing something important here.

In the last three or four years, I think I've only ever seen two children, so far, wearing helmets.

I did a little drive from Sanur to Kuta this afternoon, saw lots of passenger children on motorbikes and not one had a helmet on. Maybe it's different around Jimbaran.

On the other hand, I only saw six or so 8-9 year-olds weaving in and out of the macet (traffic jam) near the Dewa Suci roundabout, at high testosterone speed.

It was hot as hell nudging our way through the traffic. Start-stop-start-stop. My wife, (Indonesian), asked me to turn on the car air-con, which I did. Also asked what this particular delay was about.

"See that statue and roundabout with one of the worst traffic light settings in Bali?", says I.
"Rather than building that statue in the first place, maybe the "experts" should have built a small fly-over or a small tunnel and the traffic would flow better, until it hit the next bottle-neck."

Kuta traffic was relatively calm until we turned into Jalan Legian proper. (Turn left at the end of Jalan Melasti.) Nightmare.

I'm always glad to hear how things are getting better.
Tomorrow is Sunday. We might zip up to Bedugul, braving all the local Sunday drivers. Sunday driving is another ball-game again.

:D
 

mimpimanis

Active Member
Nov 4, 2003
2,100
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36
Kuta, Lombok
www.mimpimanis.com
I guess I need to get some new prescription glasses because I'm missing something important here.

In the last three or four years, I think I've only ever seen two children, so far, wearing helmets.

Yes, I think you do. Because I am often over your way and the increase of children/toddlers in helmets refers to there also.

I am not saying most are using helmets, or even a lot but there is a definite increase in recent years. And any increase is an improvement :)
 

JohnnyCool

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2009
1,414
88
48
Sanur
Yep...a new script is definitely on the list.
The last optician, ophthalmologist I "saw" reckoned my eyesight had improved. It was dark and hot in that tiny room, filled with fancy equipment and her. (Optik Seis, Denpasar)

Toddlers wearing helmets? I've never seen that any where, in any country I've been to so far.
I am not saying most are using helmets, or even a lot but there is a definite increase in recent years.
I hope you're right, if I can understand your point.

:D
 

mimpimanis

Active Member
Nov 4, 2003
2,100
0
36
Kuta, Lombok
www.mimpimanis.com
I hope you're right, if I can understand your point.

I popped out a while ago and there was one at the shop in a helmet.

In fact a friend bought Martin an infant helmet for his birthday last year (2nd) ...but we dont take him on a bike so they ended up giving it to someone else.
 

aquaman

Member
Apr 6, 2009
164
0
16
hot pink seems to be the favoured colour for little kids helmuts...seen a few of them. most don't have a helmut but some defintely do. hopefully its an upward trend and more parents learn to realise the dangers.
 

bambang

Member
Jan 4, 2009
60
0
6
lumumba said:
Bambang wrote:
That may be true but that doesn't mean they are ineffective and only a minority wear "novelty" helmets

Sorry to disappoint you but they are completely or almost useless/infective. They all should go through a series of hard crash/test curry out by independent company. Actually I went to see something like this in Europe: Don't pass the test=no certificate=no sale.

NO chin-strap= like not having the helmet
Put it on so you don't get a fine.............= don't care for your own life.

This is common sense

Helmets sold in Indonesia are subject to the the Indonesia National Stanadard SNI 1811:2007. Contrary to statements made by posters there is no ISO standard for helmets. There are ISO standards for quality control and impact testing which are already part of SNI 1811:2007.

The government has plans to improve some aspects of the standard in the near future. In the meantime it is actively enforcing the standard.

Road Safety Association (RSA) jointly with the number of motorcycle communities visited a helmets factory, PT Dinaheti Motor Industri (DMI), in Cikarang, West Java, on Tuesday (10/20). The visit is intended to improve the perception of helm production processes including the quality of Indonesia National Standard (SNI) Compulsory to helmets.

The visit to the helmets factory is considered important because in addition to being motorcycle complement to wear by rider and passenger, Law No. 22 of 2009 on Road Traffic and Transportation (LLAJ), particularly article 57 paragraph 2 also asserts that each motorcycle rider must wear helmet complying with Indonesia National Standard. Those who violate the regulation can be subjected to the maximum imprisonment of one month or the maximum penalty of Rp. 250 thousand. The regulation is clearly intended to protect the motorcycle riders from the risk of accident. "The most fatal injuries sustained by motorcycle riders are those of the head due to indisciplinary practice by motorcycle riders to traffic regulations," said the chairman of RSA, Rio Octaviano, in a press release received by detikOto, on Thursday (10/22/2009). According to him, the visit to DMI factory is also intended to socialize to the motorcycle riders particularly motorcycle clubs/communities in RSA. The representatives of motorcycle clubs/communities visiting the factory are among others DeNyut RC, HSJ, Barac, Hornet, YJOC, Everbikers, Milys, Pulsarian Community, HTML, and YVC Depok. "The motorcycle clubs/communities being road safety virus disseminating agents can expectedly disseminate their knowledge to their members" said the vice chairman of RSA, Eko Cahyo Wibowo. On the occasion, DMI explained helmet production processes from producing helmet shells made of thermal polymer, SNI emblem directly embossed upon printing, to installing internal parts of the helmets.

All production processes must fulfil ISO 14000 quality standard of 2008 and the products must pass SNI 1811 standardization test of 2007. The motorcycle communities were also explained of SNI helm laboratory tests. The tests cover impact energy test, penetration test, chin strap test, and EPS shell test. "Each country has its own criteria. The government has a technical team namely National Standardization Body (BSN) formulating SNI qualification standards, even it admits that SNI standards are stricter than DOT standards (America) that still permit the wearing of half face helmet " said Henry Tedjakusuma, the director of PT DMI. Provisions on compulsory SNI to helmets are contained in Regulation of the Minister of Industry No 40/M-IND/Per/6/2008 dated June 25, 2008. The provisions were originally effective on March 25, 2009 but are postponed to March 25, 2010 due to the request from the number of helmets producers. Henry also explained that any helmets produced after April 2009 must comply with SNI certification. In addition to maintaining the quality of the products, the SNI certification also prevents the imported helmets importers from circulating expired or defective products to Indonesia market. RSA considers that SNI can protect those wearing helmets in Indonesia. The government has also prepared a concept of protection to motorcycle riders particularly that relating to helmets. The Ministry of Industry will monitor helmets production processes and the Ministry of Trade will monitor helmets circulation, and the Ministry of Transportation will regulate the wearing of helmet, and the Police of the Republic of Indonesia will play its roles as the law enforcer. "Unfortunately, it is useless if not accompanied with good will and consistency of the agencies, many violations and inconsistencies still occur " said Rio Octaviano. (syu / ddn )

Source : detikoto, October,22, 2009
Link : http://oto.detik.com/read/2009/10/22/16 ... abrik-helm

Lumumba's statement that helmets sold in Indonesia are "are completely or almost useless/infective" has no basis in fact.
 

lumumba

Member
Sep 17, 2008
489
4
18
Bandung-Bali-Jakarta
Bambng wrote
Lumumba's statement that helmets sold in Indonesia are "are completely or almost useless/infective" has no basis in fact.

Has lots of basis/facts and so on

I have been reading all the Indonesia National Standard SNI 1811:2007 that you have so nicely posted here: NICE words, in practice it is a different kettle of fish.
I do have one of those helmet that you proudly mentioned :p :p and since I got a new one only a few days ago I decided to bash it with an orderly hammer and guess what.......... cracked in 2 different places. When and if you fell of a motorbike the impact of you head hitting the road is muuuuuuuuuuch more brutal than what I did to the helmet. I have paid a lot of money for the helmet................I was the unlucky one and of course I got the only no good one available on the market. Or maybe because was to old? Or maybe because I never had an accident and this kind of helmets MUST have at least one to make them stronger.


Words/rules and regulation in this country count as Kosong. First the driver MUST learn HOW to drive and to RESPECT the rules and regulations (this is a job for the police) then concentrate of building "up to standard helmets".
 

bambang

Member
Jan 4, 2009
60
0
6
I got a new one only a few days ago I decided to bash it with an orderly hammer and guess what.......... cracked in 2 different places
It would probably be a total surprise to you to learn that a helmet that cracks when bashed with a hammer would not necessarily fail the ISO impact test. In fact motorcycle helmets are design to fracture on impact. Indeed a helmet that cracks will probably transfer less g-force to the wearers head in the same way that a car's crumple zone will absorb some of the force of impact.

Please post a photo so that we can all see the results of your very unscientific experiment.

Words/rules and regulation in this country count as Kosong.
On the contrary Indonesia is making great progress in improving national standards. It will never satisfy some expats though, especially those who have the attitude that nothing the government does is any good, it is all "kosong".
 

gilbert de jong

Active Member
Jan 20, 2009
3,198
3
36
Panji, Singaraja.
improving national standards is ok by me (if it actually happens) but actualy shouldn't be necessary because there are International standards :). Your post goes on about some Indonesian factory and ISO certification...but you're forgetting to mention that most helmets sold TODAY in Indonesia are actually imported, import helmet max. 200.000r, indo-helmet 450.000 and up, here comes the economical situation at light why people wear the cheap one...So Lumumba's statement stands as accurate...the helmets you mention are relatively ok, if it's the right size (not the right color, wich is more important to people around me), and worn correctly(chinstrap). But if the color they want isn't available, they just spraypaint the helmet (there goes the safety of the shell)...wich btw breaks from the inside out when the impact is hard enough...
As for being saver then a DOT tested, half face helmet...:lol:, that director doesnt know what he's talking about...suggesting that America (ALL 51 States) allow wearing a half face, somebody should tell him that there are several states you can drive without a helmet.Furthermore the testing of H-F is very different then from F-F.

So to clarify the ISO issue...ISO is for the way the helmet is made, i.e. factory is safe, machinery is ok, people wearing safetyglasses at the productionline etcetc...ISO standard for this is ISO 9001/2000....the ISO
For the helmets in europe they should clear the testing at ECE-ONU 22-05 standard.
For the US...gb811-1998,DOT en1384.

But hell..to me it's all just numbers with no real value, therefor I dare to say.. for a local Balinese it's totally abracadabra, if you know what I mean?
Just put something hard on my head so I don't get a ticket...



:) :lol:
 

bambang

Member
Jan 4, 2009
60
0
6
improving national standards is ok by me (if it actually happens) but actualy shouldn't be necessary because there are International standards
There is no international standard for helmets.

but you're forgetting to mention that most helmets sold TODAY in Indonesia are actually imported
The SNI standard applies to imported helmets also.

But if the color they want isn't available, they just spraypaint the helmet (there goes the safety of the shell)...
Acrylic paint is fine for use on helmets. Any modification to a helmet that renders the helmet unsafe makes the wearer liable to a fine. Enforcement is gradually being increased. Too fast for some Indonesians and not fast enough for some expats so probably at the right pace.

)...wich btw breaks from the inside out when the impact is hard enough...[
Thats depends on the angle of impact. In any case a hammer blow does not simulate a road accident.

As for being saver then a DOT tested, half face helmet..., that director doesnt know what he's talking about...suggesting that America (ALL 51 States) allow wearing a half face, somebody should tell him that there are several states you can drive without a helmet.Furthermore the testing of H-F is very different then from F-F.
Full-face helmets are inherently safer than half-face helmets so the director's statement is correct.

For the helmets in europe they should clear the testing at ECE-ONU 22-05 standard.
For the US...gb811-1998,DOT en1384.
And in Indonesia SNI 1811:2007.

Just put something hard on my head so I don't get a ticket...
That is a common attitude all over the world otherwise legislation wouldn't be required anywhere in the world.

Indonesia will gradually make the safety standards more stringent and at their own pace that is suitable for local socio-economic conditions. If you expect European standards right now perhaps you should be living in Europe. If you know what I mean?

:lol: :lol: :lol: