Electricity costs

Boo

New Member
Aug 11, 2006
28
0
1
Umalas, Bali
Most of the Balinese I know have much smaller supplies and use much less electricity. No air cons, no fridge or small fridge etc.

EG:

For a 450 watt supply
RP 10,575 fixed charge per month
RP 254 per kWH up to 100 kWH
RP 420 per kWH over 100 kWH

For a 900 watt supply
RP 23,850 fixed charge per month
RP 420 per kWH up to 100 kWH
RP 465 per kWH over 100 kWH

For a 1300 watt supply
RP 36,660 fixed charge per month
RP 470 per kWH up to 100 kWH
RP 473 per kWH over 100 kWH

Plus the 5%
 

CraftyCol

New Member
Apr 17, 2006
12
0
1
Bahrain/Pecatu
As the one who started this thread I thought I'd wade back in to give you an update on what we have achieved & to explain a few things that I have picked up during my research.

Firstly, as I understand it, electricity in Bali is subsidised. There is also a dire shortage of electricity and the situation is bound to get worse as more development happens. As a result, I believe the PLN has taken a policy decision to 'de-subsidise' the electricity and make sure that, particularly, larger users pay their fair share of the true cost of electricity.

So, starting around Feb 2006 the PLN brought in new tarrifs which uses 'Domestic' and a 'Bisnis' rate bands and sub-bands within this which increase as per the size of the supply.

The old rates are being maintained for the time being for existing customers. The new rates apply to new customers. The new 'bands' for Domestic supplies only give a low maximum supply (ie if you turn everything on then the maximum power that you can draw is limited to either 450VA or 900VA). This is probably sufficient for a small local house but is totally insufficient for even a basic 'westener's' house. This means that the locals will not suffer so much from the price hike - which is not unreasonable.

The Bisnis bands give a much larger capacity but they have this millstone of fixed payments per month. Up to 13200VA supply, the fixed rate is not too bad (Rp 1,062,500 giving 1,250KWh per month) but above that the rate is astronomical (Rp 5,185,000 giving 6,100KWh per month). The actual unit rate is the same (Rp 850 per KWh) but the fixed rate is the killer because there is no middle band between 1,250 and 6,100 KWh which is more like where the average 'westerner's' house would fall. You end up paying for power you do not use.

Secondly, on usage and power supply sizes. When you design a power supply for a house you total up all of the power requirements for the items that will draw power including sockets that will not normally be in use. Then you apply a "diversity factor" which accounts for the fact that not all items will be running at the same time and, perhaps, will not have anything in them at all. For my villa, in discussion with my electrical engineer, we used a factor of 60%. I also did some cross-checks to make sure the result was practical - I took a worst case scenario: villa full of guests, getting ready for a dinner in the house in the evening: meaning cookers running, water heaters running, pumps running (for showers), air-con running in the bedrooms, lights on, etc.

Having done all of that, this will determine the minimum amount of power that you will have to get the PLN to supply, obtaining less will mean that the safety cut-outs will trip because you have tried to draw too much power.

Of course, just because you can draw (say) 23,000VA doesn't mean that you will use that amount. I am having a 41,500VA supply installed (more on that later) but only anticipate using around 2,500KWh per month maximum. That is because not everything is running continuously throughout the day. For instance, Bali's climate doesn't really require air-con during the day - a cool breeze in the shade will suffice, even in the 'low-lands' and so air-con may only be needed at night and, even then, not all rooms will be occupied every night; cookers will only be used intermittantly; pool pumps will generally only be run during the day; lights are only on at night; etc.

By way of comparison, I currently live in the Middle East where temperatures are far higher than Bali. I run two 2 ton split air-con units continuously (day and night) throughout the summer and then another 2 ton unit in the evening, plus about the same other equipment that I expect to use in Bali. I use around 3000KWh per month here - I cannot see how Bali will come to more (on average - there may be the odd peak or trough).

Finally, having mentioned the bands above, somehow we have been able to get a supply of 41,500VA (which is a bit more than we need) because we are having to put a larger transformer to serve 3 villas and the smallest that we can get will give us excess supply. We are paying for the installation (which is eye-watering) and the unit rate for the usage is Rp 1,380 per KWh - much higher than the 850 KWh in the 'bands' but we do not have any fixed monthly payment - we pay for what we use, which is an incentive to turn off when possible!

Electricity is expensive in Bali and, it being in short supply, it could be that in time the prices will rise for all consumers, not just the new customers! So, beware!

Hope this is of some use to you all. :idea:
 

mungo

Member
Sep 17, 2006
38
0
6
fremantle
Looking at what you're doing Col, it seems that you will be heavily reliant on electric power. Perhaps some solar energy devices like heat collectors (hot water storage) and electric producing panels fed into a battery grid would be useful if they were obtainable at the right price?

Gas has hardly been mentioned and I wonder if it is an economical proposition in Bali, in lieu of some of the other electrically dependent devices? Is it econmoically practiical to run a smal to med. petrol/diesel/gas generator for 3-5f hours per day? I believe Indonesia manufactures a lot of generators.

Anyhow, your post was very interesting and the info useful for those like me, who have little knowledge of something that we all have become dependent on.
 

CraftyCol

New Member
Apr 17, 2006
12
0
1
Bahrain/Pecatu
We did think about solar power but it is expensive to purchase & maintain so discounted that. We were also going to install a generator but in the end the PLN installation cost was so high that we had to defer that.

We do have a lot of electrical items but we have tried to do it in a way that a lot of things not being used can be shut off. For instance, we have a water heater for each bathroom/kitchen so that only the rooms that are being used will be switched on rather than one big central water heater. Likewise for the air-con.

We do have a gas hob but electric ovens - my wife prefers that arrangement & as she is the star of the kitchen & my tum needs filling, who am I to complain!

The way I came to look at it was that with so many other things being so much cheaper in Bali than where I currently live I would put up with being 'exploited' for the power I like to have!

Cheers
 

iainsomers

Member
Aug 3, 2006
119
0
16
Houten, The Netherlands
So if I understand good, than this is the schedule for "big" users:

Line P/Kwh Minimum

13,2kv 850 1,1 mio
23,2kv 850 6,1 mio
41,5kv 1380 no minumum

So not counting installation costs then the most sensible thing to do is:

0-1294 kwh p/m 13,2 kv
1294-4420 kwh p/m 41,5 kv
above 4420 kwh/m 23,2 kv

strange schedule.
 

CraftyCol

New Member
Apr 17, 2006
12
0
1
Bahrain/Pecatu
Almost there, iainsomers. If you look at my posting on page 2 of this thread it gives the bands, fixed costs and power provided. What is not there are the installation costs. For those bands, the installation costs are not unreasonable. For instance, Bisnis band 13,200VA totals Rp10,478,400/-; Bisnis band 23,000VA totals Rp18,240,000/-; Bisnis band 41,500VA totals Rp32,892,000/-. (I have the info on a spreadsheet but don't know how to post it on this forum - any advice?). These costs are, I believe, subsidised or spread over many installations to get an average cost.

However, we chose to pay the actual cost of the installation (ie we paid for the poles, transformers, cables, meters, isolators, fuses, blah, blah) which cost three times that but means that we have not become locked into a fixed monthly payment. It was not going to take long to break even, despite a higher cost usage rate, because we believe that our power usage will be significantly less than the fixed 6,100VA that we would otherwise have had to pay for.

The decision to go that route also had to do with power availablity - there was no availability in our area without installing our own equipment, so basically, we had no choice!

I'm sure all of the above is as clear as mud - but it's about as clear as I can make it given the information that I have been able to extract from my architect, who has extracted it from the electrician, who has extracted it from the PLN (maybe)!!

Cheers!
 

iainsomers

Member
Aug 3, 2006
119
0
16
Houten, The Netherlands
Lol, so one have to ask wheter they can install the electricity at a higher price than standard, in order to obtain lower monthly costs. I'm looking every day more and more forward to live in Bali.

By the way: you can call me "iainsomers" but my first name (iain) will also do.
 

CraftyCol

New Member
Apr 17, 2006
12
0
1
Bahrain/Pecatu
Iain, yes, I'm looking forward to the eccentricities of living in Bali too!!

Don't forget, of course, the information I have posted is this week's story! Things never stay the same - the picture changes on a daily basis and depending on the source. I believe my equipment has now been installed and I am waiting for the power to be connected. Only then, when the usage bills start appearing, will I know for sure what I am being charged!

Which leads to another question: where will the bills get sent to? Is there such a thing as a postman in Bali? Or do people have Post Office Boxes where mail is delivered for collection. If there is a postal delivery service I suppose I had better build a letterbox!!

Cheers,
Colin (which also can be used) 8)
 

Bert Vierstra

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
3,403
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36
Homeless
Re: RE: Electricity costs

CraftyCol said:
Which leads to another question: where will the bills get sent to? Is there such a thing as a postman in Bali?

There is even DHL :)

And, I believe you can even pay yr PLN bill via a (BCA) ATM...
 

VincentOG

Member
Oct 23, 2006
63
0
6
Karangasem, Bali
Colin, belatedly, I have caught up with your postings on Bali Expat Forum regarding Electricity Costs. The information is both illuminating and shocking (pun intended) so thank you.
I have bought just over a hectare of land in East Bali where I will build a house, pool, guest bungalows etc next year.
A while ago you said your electrician had received from PLN the rates for various levels of supply as an Excel spreadsheet. Maybe most of the information is already summarised in your postings but, if not, is it possible that you could send the spreadsheet to me via email please? (My email address follows in a Private Message.) Anything further on the installation costs would also be appreciated. Thanks in anticipation.
In response to your question, I can offer some information on how bills get paid as my g/f & I have lived in Bali for 3 years, renting a couple of houses.
House 1 - someone in the village had the duty of reading all the electricity meters in the area and passing the readings onto PLN. A few days later a verbal bill arrived and I think the local person received the money on behalf of PLN. A few days thereafter, a printed bill/receipt was issued. For a big 3 bed house with AC, large pool and separate staff house (but no water bore pump) we paid about Rp1.5m/month.
House 2 – a PLN guy apparently read the meter every month. We never saw him do this but the meter, as is usually the case in Bali, was mounted on an external wall. Again, a verbal notification of the sum due was given but our house staff had to motorbike it over to the local PLN office to pay and to receive a printed bill/receipt. In our case, the PLN office administered a large area so the return travel distance could be considerable.
You only get a few days between receiving verbal notification of the sum due and the payment deadline. Miss this and you are surcharged Rp25,000.
On one occasion we were out of Bali and missed the payment date. PLN came looking for us.
Thus, if you regularly leave Bali, you need to leave cash for future bills with your house staff. Alternatively, pay online, via an ATM or whatever else is possible. I think there are a number of ways to pay "electronically" but yet to be researched by me.
House 2 was 30% smaller than House 1 with a smaller pool and no staff house but with a wel pump. It probably had a lower level of supply. Monthly bills averaged Rp1.2m. I have just paid the bill for a month when the house was not occupied and that was Rp850,000.

When I bought the land last year I looked into generating electricity via solar or wind. These options I dismissed but maybe it is time to revisit them. If my annual electricity bills are going to be in the realms of 12 x Rp5.44m = Rp65m then the payback period of the initial investment is not so bad.
 

drbruce

Member
Feb 12, 2004
493
1
16
75
singaraja, bali
cyberbali.com
Yes there are solar panels in bali. We installed one in our house in Singaraja 8 years ago. It is only used for heating water. We were fortunate and bought it right at the crash of the rupiah and received an excellent price. I'm not sure how much they are now, but they aren't cheap. There are a number of different manufacturers located in Denpasar.
 

SamD

Active Member
Sep 7, 2006
612
188
43
Seminyak
I think what was meant by "solar panels" was photovoltaic cells to generate electricity, not a solar hot water system (different physics). Solar technology has improved over the decades but is still a very expensive option. I know, I built a house in Fiji and went down the solar path only to abandon the project $10,000 later and install grid power instead. I still have the panels on the roof which power a small fridge - I like to boast that I have the most expensive beer fridge in the world. Lack of reliability in the supply, battery maintenance costs and constant electronic component failures were what convinced me to ditch the system. If you are thinking of going solar make sure you have worked out the economics beforehand and have a supplier who knows what they are doing and installs the system properly. I'd want to see some reference sites before I even considered going ahead.
 

VincentOG

Member
Oct 23, 2006
63
0
6
Karangasem, Bali
Sam, can I ask for a bit more info on your experience of installing solar power in the Tropics?
I’ll post a couple of questions but under a new thread, ("Generating Electricity Via Solar Power in Bali") as it is going a bit beyond the subject of electricity costs
 

VincentOG

Member
Oct 23, 2006
63
0
6
Karangasem, Bali
I recently applied to PLN for a new connection to the Bali electricity system. My architect told me to aim for 15-20,000 kVA to service the house and facilities he & I have in mind.

13.2 kVA
As previously reported in this post, PLN confirmed a connection of 13.2 kVA would incur a minimum monthly charge of Rp1,115,625.
Per annum
= Rp13.4m
= £744
= $1,500

Above 13.2 kVA
A connection of above 13.2 kVA would incur a minimum monthly charge of Rp5,444,250.
Per annum
= Rp65m
= £3,600
= $7,200

Expensive!

Solution
The solution I am going to adopt is to install two connections of 13.2 kVA.
The cost of setting up an installation to PLN will be incurred twice and there will be extra costs in designing the electrical systems of the house to run off 2 connections but, overall, it is economically sound to proceed on this basis.
 

Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
9,417
1,227
113
Karangasem, Bali
I am wondering what about the alternative of having your own generator? With your highest priced option being $7200/year and your lowest $3000 it wouldn't take long to pay off a decent genny which could also supply you with hot water?

http://www.whispergen.com/

The beauty of these things is they are based upon Stirling motors and can run on about anything - veggy oil, perfume, diesel, etc.
 

Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
9,417
1,227
113
Karangasem, Bali
What sort of general costs are you looking at in Bali for a decent genny?

Sorry if this sounds condescending but is the level of technical know-how up to the job - genny set-up can be quite dangerous for the engineer and user (and if the house is also tied up with the general supply system, dangerous for those down-line) and should only be done by someone in the know.