Upper schooling in Bali?

[drbruce]

Sanurian, I almost always enjoy your posts and perspective, but I really have to disagree with your comments about education in Indonesia. True, the educational system has a long way to go here, but let me put forth a few comments based on observation and participation.

I was helping my eldest daughter, 2nd year in junior high, with her math last night. She was working on solving and graphing linear equations. Earlier in the day I was teaching my algebra students in the international school where I teach. What was I teaching? Solving and graphing linear equations. The math curriculum at her very desa school is very similar to our curriculum at the international school which is a blend from the US and Oz.

Last week I was helping my second daughter who is in sixth grade with her history homework. Same thing. The curriculum is very similar to the international school's curriculum.

Teaching methodology has a way to go still, but then I've met a number of suspect teachers on the international circuit over the past 2 decades. Professional development is something that the Indonesian educational system needs to work on. That being said, I've met a few fine teachers here, and they're as dedicated as any western teachers that I've met.

It's easy to criticize education in Indonesia, but if you're really interested in seeing it improve you might want to try volunteering at one of the local schools, or donate some needed supplies, or even better some textbooks. But then, I don't know you so maybe you already do that.

Just some observations from a teacher.

 

[Sanurian]

drbruce - and Roy

Yes, apologies to both of you. I do often go for ther jugular; perhaps I am a devil's advocate. Why? It never ceases to amaze me that most people on forums such as this only "see" the good parts of Bali/Indonesia and seldom address the unsavoury. In my opinion, and never being one to wear rose-coloured glasses unnecessarily, I think that showing all is far from well here is an attempt by me to throw a different light on matters. Call it an attempt to "balance" views, if you like.

I stay here, Roy, because I actually love Indonesia (over-all). It's my adopted "home", too. And drbruce: yes, I have been "involved" in some schools and do donate text-books, "teach" computing skills for free, as well as encourage and mentor young people with their attempts at playing rock music, environmental and health issues, etc. In other words, I am not exactly all talk and no action.

And at the expense of nit-picking - if you, Roy, don't care about "western standards" of education here, why do you send your boys to an international school?

Nobody has ever accused me of being a diplomat. Probably no one ever will and I'm OK with that. But I can never just sit by and endorse views that I regard as one-sided or perhaps even naiive. I remember an interview once in a prominent music magazine with Barry Manilow. He was asked why he was so boring. He answered: "...well, somebody has to fill that role...I guess it's me..." If I'm seen as a nuisance and thorn in somebody's foot, so be it. Somebody should do that - guess it may as well be me.

Latest "update" for the Sanur area: an expat acquaintance of mine was robbed recently in his house at knife-point. He's extremely annoyed by his losses and also that the police don't seem to be doing anything (apart from getting him to make endless "reports"). An Indonesian woman was murdered in my street recently. I could go on and on, but won't. Maybe I have the misfortune of seeing the underbelly of this country too frequently. And of course it clouds my perception.
:shock:

 

[Tommy]

We got plenty of "action" in Denpasar too my friend but i'm not obsessed with the "bali post-material events" that take place. I've been in many situations where knives have been pointed, lives have been threatened and furious fights has taken place by "mad men", but i see no point in focusing on those experiences. Or maby i should share some of those stories.. what do you think?

 

[Sanurian]

Me too, Tommy

I don't see myself as being obsessed by these sorts of events - nor do I focus on them if I don't need to. But if they're happening more or less next door to me, I can't ignore them (I have my family to prtotect as well). There are others out there who seem to be blind to the fact that they're occurring at all.

Don't you think people should know what's going on, that this place is not exempt from the violence, hatred, bigotry, racism and hyprocrisy that seems to characterise the west? Yeah - why don't you share some of your horror stories? After all, there are more than enough people here apparently "obsessed" with the goodness of this archipelago. Almost as if Balinese can do no wrong. Hmmm. What a wonderful dream.
:roll:

 

[pooochie]

Or maby i should share some of those stories.. what do you think?

Messrs Sanurian and Tommy

Please spill the beans. I am interested to hear it.

Many thanks
Ni Luh

 

[Tommy]

The events i've seen are so rare (and nowhere close to any expats) that it's not even worth mentioning. I think most people understand that violence is a part of our darker sides as humans and that it does exist in Bali too. One have to be in the wrong place at the right time, so to speak, to experience it. Daniel (i think), I'm abit baffled by what you say about your neighbourhood in Sanur, but, i have heard & read some about crimes there. I know that Sanur is very popular amongst Expats, many of the "elite", and wonder if that somehow contributes to the possibly higher crime-rate? What i've seen was outside our village-boundaries in the central part of Denpasar. In our village it would be quite hard to get away with anything.

 

[made marko]

Kids these days...
It is the same everywhere!
As I sit this sunday morning in the library of this quiet pacific NW USA town, the police are removing a body from the giant hole filled with water across the street that was once a shopping center.
Housing costs are so high that I have just moved into a trailer in a rather bad neighborhood that took me 3 days of cleaning though a mess of syringes and the gods know what...
Methamphetamine abuse is completely rampant here and you see people of all ages detroying themselves all around.
There is much charity offered by 'christian' organisations & one can see daily lines of more than 100 souls queing for free food. Thank you christians.
There is no truancy law in the state of Oregon.
And many families have opted for 'home schooling'.
The streets are filled with teens and pre-teens doing what ever they wish. Most with cell phone to ear.
When I walk out the door these kids will ask me for "any part of a dollar"( the most lyrical of the 'sparechange' mantram they mutter), or 'nugs!' meaning high quality ganja, or in my new neighborhood; "get 'er done" which means Meth for sale.
Western education?
MBEH!

 

[Roy]

Sanurian asks:

And at the expense of nit-picking - if you, Roy, don't care about "western standards" of education here, why do you send your boys to an international school?

We don't. Our two older boys attend the Denpasar Children's Center which is a private Indonesian school mostly attended by Indonesian kids, or kids from mixed marriages. The teachers are all Indonesian, excepting one westerner who teaches English. This coming July, our youngest will start pre-school at Suda Dharma, here in Ubud, which is also a private school, with all Indonesian teachers.

The only “horror” story I can share is when our neighbor committed suicide over a mountain of debt he had acquired by gambling. Anyone who follows the Bali Post regularly will find an increase in articles relating stories of suicide, either financial or drug related.

 

[Tommy]

Suicides does give one a real thinker. I read in Bali Post (online) just a couple of weeks ago about a loving couple who commited suicide by drowning themselves into lake batur. Apparently the girl was from Trunyan and the guy from another village. They speculated that they commited suicide because they weren't allowed to be together or that they at least "felt" that way. She told her brother to "take care of mom" and they got some clues through sms-messages. Really sad story. They were found in the waters of Lake Batur.. still clinging onto each other. Makes me sad evertime i think of it. They were referred to as ''Romeo'' dan ''Juliet'' as they were found dead still embracing each other and thought to have commited suicide together.

I've read other news-stories of people committing suicide just these last 2 years in Bali. Many of them choose to hang themselves (almost as if there's a "pattern") which makes everyone really uncomfortable. You can almost feel the buta kala crawl your skin when you think of it. The color of the cloth or rope used is very often considered important. If i'm not mistaken, the color that often re-appears.. is green.

Now enough with this horror. Gotta keep the faith in goodness and optimism. That's why i rarely want to bring up subjects such as these.

 

[drbruce]

Sanurian,

Thanks for the thoughtful response and glad to see that you are "involved." (I had a guess that you might be.) My comment that I usually enjoy your posts and perspective was based on you commenting on the other side of life that most expats either choose to ignore or just don't come across in their daily life. I would guess that most of us who have been around a while have more than a few stories to tell about the darker side of things - robberies, getting cheated, nasty comments on the street from young guys who don't like seeing Westerners with Indonesian women, etc.

A friend of mine just recently said, in response to my complaining about the frequent shortages of water and electricity here in Sumbawa, that you could never tell by my travel articles that life was anything other than rosy either here or in Bali. True, true. And I'm looking for a format to use to write something that addresses both the good and the bad - trying to be a little humorous at the same time.

I think that it's important to be realistic about life anywhere, but also necessary (well maybe not necessary, but more pleasant certainly) to try to find the best things in life to focus on and appreciate. And, there have been far more good things that have happened to me over the past 16 years than bad ones.

Salam

 

[Jimbo]

I think that it's important to be realistic about life anywhere, but also necessary (well maybe not necessary, but more pleasant certainly) to try to find the best things in life to focus on and appreciate. And, there have been far more good things that have happened to me over the past 16 years than bad ones.

Well said Bruce. A truism if I have heard one. To ask a genuine question on edcucation. If the schooling is as good as you say in local schools ( and you are the expert here) Why are there so many private ones and why (english teachers excepted) are you and other expats required. This is not sarcastic in any way but a genuine desire to get at the truth.

I suspect the answer is the parents desires but you will know best.

 

[ColinF]

I for one, do not believe that the schooling is good! Why do we read in the Indonesian papers on an almost daily basis comments from ministries, ministers, NGOs etc etc confirming acceptance that the quality of Indonesian teachers in general is below par, and in particular those in rural areas? The main reason usually given for this is the extremely low level of salaries and it is true, they are abysmal. But who is responsible for the hiring of these poorly qualified teachers and why are the proper standards laid down by the Indonesian government not being adhered to? I suspect that the hiring is being done locally and the ever present spectre of "cash incentive" is being applied! Naturally, the ones to suffer are the students and the low income parents who struggle to do the right thing for their kids and find the money to pay for this 3rd rate tuition which is supposed to be free for them anyway! :x
And the end result? Indonesia consistently places very close to the bottom of the list of worldwide education results census'! Certainly the worst within the ASEAN grouping. :shock:
Teachers are responsible for the quality, or lack thereof, of the future leaders of the country at all levels, so WHY are they not respected as such and paid accordingly, encouraged instead of ignored, selected by highest training standard instead of lowest cash cost, and accepted as extremely valuable members of the community? Sure beats me!! :roll:
Colin

 

[Bert Vierstra]

My wife studies dutch at "university" here, required for her law studies....

Well, I don't even understand it

 

[Roy]

Colin...I'm on my way out the door for a ceremony...but in the meantime, maybe you can tell us all just how many kids you have currently being educated in Bali?

 

[ColinF]

Not one, Roy, not one, I'm happy to say.

Colin

 

[ColinF]

Er...ah..well, at least...not that I know of!!!!!!!!!!! :wink: :wink:

(Just joking Roy, only pulling your pi......leg.)

Colin

 

[Roy]

Just back from ceremony, ceremony, and more ceremony. I'm too tired to argue with you Colin, but your stats have nothing to do with the topic of this string, which as I recall is "Upper schooling in Bali?"

Those stats you mention, (which I question anyway) are most likely derived from village, or banjar primary and secondary schools. Odd though, or at least to me, how many graduates from those schools go onto to university education, both here in Indonesia, and abroad.

One has to wonder, you, having no kids in school on Bali, just how valid your opinion on this topic really is? It's kinda like a guy describing birthing a baby, isn't it?

I do agree though that "public" school teachers are paid horribly, and there is lots of work to be done in this area. Selamat malam.

 

[ColinF]

Sorry.....didn't realize if you don't have kids in school you're not supposed to read anything in the papers concerning the standard of teaching in the country and the published end results of it.
It was also published nationally that those failing the Indonesian university entrance exams could, if their families could afford it, purchase their entrance then, presumably, work at catching up! (This, understandably, resulted in protests from those who had actually earned their place by dint of hard work). Certain foreign countries, notably the US, have a number of 'universities' only too willing to accept students from overseas on a cash basis rather than a qualifying exam or proof of standard reached - in itself very easily "arranged" in Indonesia. And NO, I AM NOT SAYING ALL INDONESIAN STUDENTS GO THIS WAY!!! Just that this was the route taken by all the "New Order" clan and their IQ- challenged sidekicks, and is still continuing today for their ilk.
OK, so maybe in picture-perfect-never-a-harsh-word-just-peachy-life Bali nothing of the sort ever happens and wouldn't be condoned anyway even if it did...which it doesn't....Does it?
At least I'm glad you agree that the treatment of the GOOD teachers is despicable.
Colin.

 

[pooochie]

Hi Pak Colin

At least I'm glad you agree that the treatment of the GOOD teachers is despicable.

I don’t know for fact how much money they make but, I remember my teachers in Bali (pre-uni) offering private lessons after school. I can only presume that the reason for this was economical.

Their salary might be despicable but in my personal observations some of my teachers became teachers because they wanted to and enjoy teaching. Some of my teachers will always have my utmost respect and admiration.

Hi Dr Bruce

Professional development is something that the Indonesian educational system needs to work on.

My parents are both an educator (Dosen’s) at Unud. They have been university lecturers since I was a kid. I do know that from time to time they are required to take ‘Continuing Professional Development’ (CPD) schemes. They take their work very seriously, to the extent when they were basically told they were too old to get government scholarships for their PhD’s, they then took on their own initiative and with great expense to themselves and endeavoured to do the PhDs. And my parents are not alone I personally know others lecturers that use their own money to finance their PhD’s abroad and of course they come home after that to continue their love of teaching. My parents (both 60) always amaze me with their dedication to teaching. I asked them once why they basically put themselves through hell in their twilight age while everyone else was retiring and their answer was simple: “Mati meningalkan nama”. I should have guessed that.

My dad is currently doing minor corrections after his viva. Next my mom. I just want to say “cepat selesai ma sebelum 61”

Thanks for reading my story.

Getting back to Top Notch education:

Just recently I asked my new neighbour why they moved to the city when they have a perfectly beautiful house in the country with decent schools in the area. The answer: was so they can enrol their children in the best private school in the City. They also believe that their children in the future will be successful by making friends with the kids of similar statue. I was not sure about this but seeing my husband’s close friends most of them that are still his friends are actually from school.

Perhaps others would like to comment on why some parents choose to pay for top notch education if they have perfectly adequate education as an alternative?

I am interested to hear it.

Many thanks
Ni Luh

 

[Roy]

Colin, if we are talking about the standard of education on a national basis, then I totally agree with you. I thought we were discussing education in Bali. I know a number of Balinese, educated on the primary and secondary level at Banjar schools who went on to university without buying their way in. One in our own little village attended university in the US on a full scholarship. He earned his degree, a BA in anthropology the hard way...by studying and applying himself. He did so well that he was asked to stay on with a full fellowship to earn his masters and doctorate. As for US universities who allow foreign students to buy their way in, I’d love to hear some names, as such practice would cause them to loose their accreditation.

Having two sons already enrolled in school here in Bali does give me a perspective on education here in Bali beyond what one can read in the newspaper. Personally I am pleased with their development and with their teachers.

Ni Luh asks,

“Perhaps others would like to comment on why some parents choose to pay for top notch education if they have perfectly adequate education as an alternative?”

I think this is because all parents naturally want what is best for their kids. It is typical, especially for parents in the west, (the US being what I am used to) to drive their kids really hard when it comes to schooling so they can get into the best universities. The competition is fierce and one has to wonder if it’s really worth it...the resulting drug problems (starting with ridillin in grammar school), mental health problems, and student violence.

Personally I don’t think it’s worth it, which is why I keep my family in Bali, to raise them here. While I surely don’t want to see any of my boys end up in the sawahs to make a living, they don’t need to earn MBA’s and work on Wall Street either.