Racism Discussion (Con't from Adam Air)

JUDY

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This thread was discussing Adam Air and subsequently a dialogue insued regarding racism. I can't remember who said, "you will find racism all over the world". How true guys. Bert, you said, Dewi has mentioned to you how the Chinese Indonesians are smart business people and rich". Then you proceed to compare the Chinese Indonesians similar to the Jews but how did you put it.....I'm paraphrasing...medium to the Jews.
Then someone says some kind of racial slurr about how big Jews noses are.

Oh, yeah Dasha also made a racist remark. Very sad. I thought you guys were more evolved human beings than what I have just read.

Let me tell you a little story. When I grew up I was raised Catholic. Went to Catholic Schools up until my 10th year. I then transferred to public school. My two best friends and I became friends with a group of Jewish kids. Many of them were from wealth families so I thought, "all Jews are rich".

Fast forward till I was twenty and met David who no way shape or form was rich. yes he was Jewish. A year later I was studing the Jewish Faith and six months later had a Jewish wedding much to my parents dismay. Not because he was Jewish but because they did not want me to change my religion.

However, because my mother is French and Italian people who did not know her thought she was Jewish. Many Italians and French people look Jewish. She worked at a Clothing Store owned by Jews during World War II. It was an exclusive boutique catering to the rich. The reason why she went to work for them was because the previous clothing store she was employed by said they did not want her any longer because she was part Italian

So she marched herself out of that establishment and went to work for the best store in her city. Everyone thought she was Jewish although she was very catholic. They treated her with upmost respect and paid her twice what she received at her former employer. Hey those Jews are stingy.......Right guys...... And my mother was from emigrate parents from Italy and Franch. My mother was very gifted in clothing design and beautiful.

My Children were raised Jewish although they also celebrated Christmas and Easter with my family. My first husbands family was not rich. Upper middle class I would say except for David's mother who devoted her life to teaching Hebrew at the synogue and editing a news letter for two Christian Churchs weekly.

Her father however happened to make it in America coming from Russia and opened a pants factory. He achieved his dream to make it in America. However, when their was a garment strick he continued to pay ALL his employees for three months (although they were not working) so that they did not have to break the pick lines.

I guess he was just a big nosed Jewwho was cheap. How was he cheap? By paying them for three months to keep food on the table and not let the wolf come through the door.


My point to this whole story is this. You guys sound very racist. I have heard that the Chinese try to take over all the land in Bali and that they are good business people....that is what Agung told me. Well, the Balinese should not sell their land to them and the Balinese should acquire better business skills.

I know many Jewish People who are more kind and generous compared to my own Christian family and friends through out my life. Each race has in its ranks.....'THE GOOD, THE BAD.....AND THE UGLY.....'

and those who made the racist remarks, Bert and Dasha and the guy from Saudi Arabia. Bert I was very shocked to read your comment, Dasha you help so many people in Bali I did not think you were capable of racism....
And the guy from Saudi Arabia your children are of mixed race.

Wonderful, the cosmos works in mysterious ways. I only hope your children will not incounter bigoted remarks about their looks due to your ignorant remarks.
 

JUDY

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RE: Adam Air

Dasha:

Sooo sorry, shouldn't read this forum when it is 4:00am. Too late. I thought you were referring to nose not knows and only spelling it incorrectly. Pleasee I'm now getting to critical or should I say unable to read or comprehend.

Bert:

Sorry to you to. I reread your post and I should have asked you what you meant by your remark rather than to jump on you.

Jimbo:

You didn't even comment to "hey, I guess I get grumpy, stupid, tired, and should not read this forum when I should be sleeping.

Good Nite
 

Bert Vierstra

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RE: Adam Air

I hope you don't consider my remark racist.

I was trying to say that the chinese here are given similar characteristics as in the west some people "stereotype" the jews.
 

Dasha

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RE: Adam Air

That’s cool Jude. People belt me up all the time at 4.00am I hang out with all the desperates at that time of night it’s cos we are out late and not fully in charge of all our faculties, You meet the best people at that time of day/night We make mistakes about what we perceive I spose. Don’t sweat it keep rokin soul sister.

At the end of it” Am I not my brother’s keeper”? Racism ain’t possible with me.
 

JUDY

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RE: Adam Air

Well guys.....thanks for your reply; appreciate you writing me back about my rant concerning Jews and Chinese Indonesians.

Dasha: Brings a smile to my face when I see my name as Jude cuz that is what my brother and sisters call me and my closest friends. Feel like you're an ole friend!!! You also make me laugh which sometimes is difficult to do when I obsess about the world conditions such as Iraq, Darfur, Africa, etc. etc. etc. So your comments really give me a hearty laugh.....feels good. Rock on soul sister hmmmm love music and dancing. two of my joys on this planet.

Bert: I hope you did not imply anything racist regarding Jews and the Chinese Indonesians. You know the old saying, "people.....people who need people, are the luckiest people in the world". Well, quite a few Jews in the world are good at business just as many are not depends on the person. The same goes for the Chinese I am certain. A chinese women who works for Eva Air here in Seattle once remarked to me, "I do not like to do business with the majority of Chinese people because they want everything for NOTHING". While their is nothing wrong with this characteristic it's only bad for the person on the other side of the spectrum...you know such as sales. The looking glass has two sides, you know what I mean????? Same goes for Jewish People. Some great with business others terrible. Each race has their attributes as well as their misgivings as the BHAGAVAD GITA. Its just the way the human race is....and when people can truly comprehend the true nature of man then...and maybe then.... the world will be a better place......Beatles I believe.
 

JUDY

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RE: Adam Air

Dasha:
Forgot to mention, "Aren't I my brothers keeper"???? Well, if everone in the world truly behaved in that manner; just imagine what the world would look like, feel like, and be like..... More like a heaven than a HELL...for so many unfortunate souls.

And...I am a night owl one could say. Have been my whole life like my mother. No problem staying up till 4:00am 5:00am. The night exists for one to meditate...at least that is what the Avatar's say. Quiet, peaceful...hopfully. One should not be on the computer, watching a movie, late at nite. Should be reserved for contemplation and the like.... Easy to say but so hard to do.

Jude
 

JUDY

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RE: Adam Air

Ok, I forgot to answer Bert's question concerning your statement pertaining to Jews compared to the Chineses Indonesians. similar characteristics....Well that is a RACIST REMARK. Indeed!!!!!!

When you refer to a certain group of people or peoples in a negative manner that is RACIST.

To say the Chinese Indonesia are similar to the Jews in business but a little milder....in nature.....What does that realllly mean??? It is, and always will be, a racist remark.

Ignorance is Bliss sayith the LORD. I do not believe Bert you honestly believe when Dewi says negatively that statement refering to the Chinese....that she is not projecting a racist remark. Balinese can be racist too....Almost all people are in one way or another.

So Please expound on what you meant when you said, how people perceive the Jews in Europe versus how the Indonesians perceive the Chinese Indonesians in Asia?????

What did YOU TRULY MEAN....NOT EVERYONE ELSE. PLEASE EXPLAIN.
 

manc in oz

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Re: RE: Adam Air

JUDY said:
Ok, I forgot to answer Bert's question concerning your statement pertaining to Jews compared to the Chineses Indonesians. similar characteristics....Well that is a RACIST REMARK. Indeed!!!!!!

When you refer to a certain group of people or peoples in a negative manner that is RACIST.

To say the Chinese Indonesia are similar to the Jews in business but a little milder....in nature.....What does that realllly mean??? It is, and always will be, a racist remark.

Ignorance is Bliss sayith the LORD. I do not believe Bert you honestly believe when Dewi says negatively that statement refering to the Chinese....that she is not projecting a racist remark. Balinese can be racist too....Almost all people are in one way or another.

So Please expound on what you meant when you said, how people perceive the Jews in Europe versus how the Indonesians perceive the Chinese Indonesians in Asia?????

What did YOU TRULY MEAN....NOT EVERYONE ELSE. PLEASE EXPLAIN.


Hi Jude, if I can put my two pence worth in here ( and hopefully not be seen as racist ) I think Bert was just saying how a particular race of people are perceived by many in Europe. In the UK people say the Scottish are tight, in Australia people say the Kiwi's are tight. What I'm saying is, that is a perception that is out there. It doesn't mean a person who speaks of that perception is racist. Maybe this debate should have a thread of it's own guys.
 

Bert Vierstra

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RE: Adam Air

Well, I think we have found Judy's sensitive spot here.

I said what I said.

I just connected a story one of "my girls" wrote about a Chinese in the city, who felt his "sort" was stereotyped by others, and some of the remarks I heard from Dewi about the Chinese.

I found this similar to how the west stereotyped the Jews (used to maybe better)

We have a toko here, in our street, which is run by an Indonesian with chinese background, and we refer to them as "chinanE" Thats Buleleng Balinese for "The Chinese".

I am not going further with this discussion. I will not have myself pushed into a racist corner, I am no racist.

Dewi "suffers" from some mild xenofobia. She says things about the muslims, about the chinese and about black people.
 

froggy

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There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, Native Americans, etc. And then there are just Americans.
You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction. You Call me "White boy," "Cracker," "Honkey," "Whitey," Caveman" ..And that's OK.
But when I call you, Nig..., Kike, Towel head, Sand-nig..., Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink...
You call me a racist.
You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you, so why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?
You have the United Negro College Fund.
You have Martin Luther King Day.
You have Black History Month.
You have Cesar Chavez Day.
You Have Yom Hashoah
You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi
You have the NAACP.
You have BET.
If we had WET (White Entertainment Television). We'd be racists.
If we had a White Pride Day ..You would call us racists. If we had White History Month
We'd be racists. If we had any organization for only whites to "advance" OUR lives
We'd be racists.
We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, And then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce. Wonder who pays for that? If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships ... You know we'd be racists.
There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US. Yet if there were "White colleges" ..
THAT would be a racist college. In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights.
If we marched for our race and rights.
You would call us racists.
You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're Not afraid to announce it. But when we announce our white pride ..
You call us racists.
You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug-dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society.
You call him a racist.
I am proud. But, you call me a racist. Why is it that only whites can be racists? :idea:
 
G

Guest

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Judy your posts appear to be rather erratic. First accusing, then apologising, then accusing again. Are you ok?

If someone relates their experience of racism why label them a racist?

But when I call you, Nig..., Kike, Towel head, Sand-nig..., Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink...
You call me a racist.
Froggy do you really call people those names? I'm sure you don't and neither do the majority of people.

The inequity you perceive is a result of affirmative action or reverse discrimination policies that have been implemented to "redress the effects of past discrimination". In the U.S. these policies, in general, have wide political and social support.

If you have an axe to grind about black people in America I don't think this forum is the place to do it. You would be better served taking political action in your own country.

Why is it that only whites can be racists?
Totally untrue.
 

JUDY

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Bert: I now understand what you are saying, I think. Ok, I'm relieved to know you are not a racist. As for Dewi, well as I said before; one does not have to be only white to be a racist.

Allan: Yeah, I did sound somewhat contradictory because I was not certain after I reread Bert and Dasha's post what they truly were saying.
I'm simply glad to hear they are not.

Froggy: Allan is right regarding your post. The history of the United States has a long long laundry list of bigotry, racism, and anyone who is not like them. That is why we had affirmative action, etc, etc, etc. The white man has ruled our country from the beginning; not the people of color. I understand you have certain feelings because you had a situation with someone who screwed you who was of color. Maybe to get over your anger just think of them as a person who did you wrong and disassociate from the color of their skin.
Ngurah, is checking it out for you and getting back to me. As of yet, I've not heard anything. Will let you know soon.
 

Bert Vierstra

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As for Dewi, well as I said before; one does not have to be only white to be a racist.

I don't think of Dewi as being racist. I see somebody that is "a racist" as someone that is actively declaring that this color or race is better then the other one. Dewi is not like that. Like I said, a mild form of xenophobia, oh yeah, and she has some mild form of prejudice too, like so many.

Frankly Judy, I am getting a bit tired of your remarks. You are turning a fly into an elephant.

Next time you want to call someone a racist, my wife, me or someone else on this forum, I kindly ask you to think twice, or I will think for you.
 

Pat

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RE: Racism Discussion (Con

Hi Judy

according to you , french and italian look Jewish !!!!!

Just explained me how a jewish is supposed to look.

I am half french half italian and believe me i look ......human !!!

Have you ever been in France or Italie???

Now who is the racist here?????
 

Jimbo

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Jan 11, 2005
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RE: Racism Discussion (Con

Wow. I have been away for a couple of days and explosion. Let me reiterate what I have said before. There is a alittle of racialism, tribalism and prejudice in us all and I think one should be honest and admit it. It is human nature to defend the group and others outside the group will believe rightly that there is some prejudice against them

Do not beat yourself up about it. The real problem is when it takes over your life and becomes such an obsession you want to hurt someone physically or mentally because of it. In Indonesia as a whole the chinese have or are been successful in business and the resentment towards them is because of this perception where true or mistaken the view is held. The same happended in Europe in the 40's when there was this perception of the jews. It was totally erroneous but held nevertheless and not just by Germany. Now the whole of the middle east is against them but for another reason.

Right now I enter into despair of the hatred shown from people to people in my lifetime, the wars the violence and intolerance shown. I also despair of the intolerance shown and the political correctness times we have to live in. I cannot as an Englishman tell a joke about the Irish, the Indians cannot tell a joke about the Sikhs or the Aussies tell a joke about the Poms.

Live and let live each with their own point of view which if it does not be your own does not mean that the other does not have a right to it. And that applies whether in Bali (on topic :) )or anywhere else.
 

Dasha

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Knopfler: Can't find no sleeves for my records Can't get no laces for my shoes Can't get no fancy notes On my blue guitar Can't get no antidote for blues Can't find the reasons for your actions Or I don't much like the reasoning you use Somehow your motives are impure Or somehow I can't find the cure Can't find no antidote for blues They say it's mostly vanity That writes the plays we act They tell me that's what everybody knows
There's no such thing as sanity and that's the sanest fact that’s the way the story goes
Can't get any remedy on my TV There’s anything but the same old news IF we can't find a way to be ONE WORLD IN HARMONY.
 

Jim Thorpe

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RE: Racism Discussion (Con

Dasha,
What a great album. We seem to have the same musical tastes.

Froggy,
Relax man. Are you saying that whites don't carjack, rob or kill people? C'mon man, you are starting to sound like David Duke. You are better than that.
 

froggy

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Im not pointing out any race, , we (honkys) are afforded no slack, and most of your responses prove it!! Judy- intellegent white,black, hispanic etc... think affirmative action has ran its course, all others use it for an unfair advantage. its outdated and discriminatory BIG TIME. But on a lighter note,You gotta love Carlos Mancia (sp?) he's an unbelievable comedian that picks on every race- he's great- worth going out of your way to find his cd's or videos..........