i'm a bit confused on this one too....
yeah jimbo, i think Roy was having a bad day. Once again - please elaborate on your ideas on this topic........
Mixed Marriages
- Thread starter drbruce
- Start date
i'm a bit confused on this one too....
yeah jimbo, i think Roy was having a bad day. Once again - please elaborate on your ideas on this topic........
Hi dandan
What nice big eyes you have
If he means two timing, then the statement should have said so, but I do not read it like that. However, lets presume this is the meaning and our beloved Doctor just did not write the statement correctly.
With regards to the Indonesian partner “two timing” the Bule then this is wrong of the Indonesian to do, but has nothing to do with being Indonesian it happens everywhere and I have personally seen it often done by Bules in Bule only relationships.
Kind regards
Ni Luh
What nice big eyes you have
If he means two timing, then the statement should have said so, but I do not read it like that. However, lets presume this is the meaning and our beloved Doctor just did not write the statement correctly.
With regards to the Indonesian partner “two timing” the Bule then this is wrong of the Indonesian to do, but has nothing to do with being Indonesian it happens everywhere and I have personally seen it often done by Bules in Bule only relationships.
Kind regards
Ni Luh
Hi dandan
:lol: :lol:
Duek sajaan Base Bali. Mampir ngeh ke warung kucing :wink:
Nasi suba dadi bubuh :lol: (as Kadek would say).
Hi All
Just to add food for thought about people cheating and the finger pointing at the Indonesian partner:
“What’s good for the Goose is good for the Gander”
Just had to say that :lol: But who is the Goose :shock: :lol: Well that's another story/thread :lol:
So if a Bule had a pacar before the relationship then why can the Indonesian not? Or are we Indonesians second class? and
the Bule is superior and can do whatever pleases them and define the goal posts?
If the Bule expects the beautiful person they wish to start dating to not already have other people wanting or currently in a relationship with them, then all I can say is the Bule is very naive.
Regards
Ni Luh
:lol: :lol:
Duek sajaan Base Bali. Mampir ngeh ke warung kucing :wink:
Nasi suba dadi bubuh :lol: (as Kadek would say).
Hi All
Just to add food for thought about people cheating and the finger pointing at the Indonesian partner:
“What’s good for the Goose is good for the Gander”
Just had to say that :lol: But who is the Goose :shock: :lol: Well that's another story/thread :lol:
So if a Bule had a pacar before the relationship then why can the Indonesian not? Or are we Indonesians second class? and
the Bule is superior and can do whatever pleases them and define the goal posts?
If the Bule expects the beautiful person they wish to start dating to not already have other people wanting or currently in a relationship with them, then all I can say is the Bule is very naive.
Regards
Ni Luh
I have to say I read Dr Bruce's comment as the Indonesian already had a local pacar when they startde seeing the Bule.
I am sure he doesnt mean that the Indonesian girl could not have ever had a pacar before.
Funnily enough Made also had a local pacar when we met but then again I also had a bule pacar back home. Bule pacar followed me out so I left Made for a while but I couldnt forget him so I broke up with Bule & went back to Made.
I am sure he doesnt mean that the Indonesian girl could not have ever had a pacar before.
Funnily enough Made also had a local pacar when we met but then again I also had a bule pacar back home. Bule pacar followed me out so I left Made for a while but I couldnt forget him so I broke up with Bule & went back to Made.
Hi mimpimanis
Maybe you are right and if I am wrong then I apologise to Dr Bruce for interpreting his words incorrectly. Only Dr Bruce will be able to clarify what is truly meant by:
I think it normal for anyone, no matter what background to have had a pacar before they meet the person they are to marry. As you yourself have demonstrated in your post, this does not necessarily lead to problems.
Hi Dr Bruce
I think it is only fair that if you comment on your fellow expat’s Indonesian partners that you can comment on your fellow expats. No name mentioning of course.
I wonder out of the “local experiences” that you have had, how many of the Bule “have had a pacar before the marriage” to the Indonesian partner :?:
Also to add to this separately how many of the Bule “have had a pacar after the marriage” to the Indonesian partner :?:
It will be interesting to see the statistical comparison from both sides.
Regards
Ni Luh
mimpimanis said:
Maybe you are right and if I am wrong then I apologise to Dr Bruce for interpreting his words incorrectly. Only Dr Bruce will be able to clarify what is truly meant by:
drbruce said:
I think it normal for anyone, no matter what background to have had a pacar before they meet the person they are to marry. As you yourself have demonstrated in your post, this does not necessarily lead to problems.
Hi Dr Bruce
I think it is only fair that if you comment on your fellow expat’s Indonesian partners that you can comment on your fellow expats. No name mentioning of course.
I wonder out of the “local experiences” that you have had, how many of the Bule “have had a pacar before the marriage” to the Indonesian partner :?:
Also to add to this separately how many of the Bule “have had a pacar after the marriage” to the Indonesian partner :?:
It will be interesting to see the statistical comparison from both sides.
Regards
Ni Luh
Hi Ni Luh,
A quick response to a poorly worded sentence on my part - the pacar before marriage statement. I should have worded it so that the meaning was conveyed that the mate continued on with the relationship even after the marriage. I hope that this is somewhat clearer. Sorry for the confusion.
A quick response to a poorly worded sentence on my part - the pacar before marriage statement. I should have worded it so that the meaning was conveyed that the mate continued on with the relationship even after the marriage. I hope that this is somewhat clearer. Sorry for the confusion.
Hi Ni Luh,
I'm just dropping in at school on a Sunday -my Indonesian wife is not particularly happy about my working on a Sunday. Let me just say two things:
1) I introduced this topic based on a comment that Roy made to Jimbo. I didn't think that it would become so heated. That's unfortunate - I prefer discussing things calmly.
2) This topic is a regular topic among my male/female expat/Indonesian friends. As my wife commented yesterday, don't forget about the jerks (she means men) who marry an Indonesian woman expecting to get a maid and a hooker for one cheap price. We all have our experiences and perhaps I have seen more of the negative parts of cross-cultural marriages than some other forum members have. What can I say besides that? I have four kids with my wife and a good life thanks to my income and Su's home management skills and our good fortune to have sweet, respectful, beautiful kids. So it's a good life, but for most of my friends and acquaintances it hasn't worked out all that well.
I'm just dropping in at school on a Sunday -my Indonesian wife is not particularly happy about my working on a Sunday. Let me just say two things:
1) I introduced this topic based on a comment that Roy made to Jimbo. I didn't think that it would become so heated. That's unfortunate - I prefer discussing things calmly.
2) This topic is a regular topic among my male/female expat/Indonesian friends. As my wife commented yesterday, don't forget about the jerks (she means men) who marry an Indonesian woman expecting to get a maid and a hooker for one cheap price. We all have our experiences and perhaps I have seen more of the negative parts of cross-cultural marriages than some other forum members have. What can I say besides that? I have four kids with my wife and a good life thanks to my income and Su's home management skills and our good fortune to have sweet, respectful, beautiful kids. So it's a good life, but for most of my friends and acquaintances it hasn't worked out all that well.
Good Morning Dr Bruce
Don’t think of this as heated it is just a discussion. I am sorry if my comments come over too strong. I just love a good debate , done in a courteous manner and in the best possible taste.
I have never doubted you. You have definitely proven you and your wife have a great relationship and both do for each other what is necessary to have a successful marriage. I do love reading your posts about your home life that you add to the forum every once in a while.
Best wishes
Ni Luh
drbruce said:
Don’t think of this as heated it is just a discussion. I am sorry if my comments come over too strong. I just love a good debate
, done in a courteous manner and in the best possible taste.I have never doubted you. You have definitely proven you and your wife have a great relationship and both do for each other what is necessary to have a successful marriage. I do love reading your posts about your home life that you add to the forum every once in a while.
Best wishes
Ni Luh
Ni Luh has things focused on the pacar issue so I’d best respond on that first of all and then get back to Bruce’s original points. My wife is Asian, 16 years younger than me and of course had boy friends before we married. I was in no way a buck virgin but have not strayed in the 23 years of our marriage. As for my expatriate acquaintances with Asian spouses, those who remain married did not to my knowledge have pacars after marriage while those who failed often did.
Getting back to the original topic, my own experience spans 30 years in and around various Asian countries. Over that time I’ve encountered many mixed marriages and would rate them more stable than those of people in my age group in Australia. Cultural hurdles are common to all in the early stages as are problems with the Asian partners family. Elsewhere in the region a child taking a foreign spouse is regarded as an embarrassment for the parents and certainly not some kind of golden goose opportunity. Fortunately the imminence of a grandchild puts that one to bed very quickly and I’ve not seen an instance of a marriage being wrecked by the Asian in laws.
Marriages involving Asia stationed young American servicemen are however glaring exceptions. The failure rate there is way high with the break up often occurring on return to the US and after the spouse obtains citizenship. This leads to accusations of gold digging and undoubtedly that’s sometimes the case. My own amateur root cause analysis is that the problem cases are mismatches where one or the other has entered a relationship with a partner who is not really attractive to them. The reason for doing so is by no means always cynical but more often just youthful excitement over a glamorous situation. The absence of a common language and culture delays the morning after reality that would otherwise set in quickly rather than a few years and a screwed up marriage later. Could something similar be at work here in Indonesia? I don’t know and the reason follows …
Since moving to Bali I am only passing familiar with the expatriate community; mainly through business and my daughter’s school. From what I can see however there are proportionately more mixed marriages here than elsewhere in the region, even when cosmopolitan places like Singapore are included. From my admittedly distant perspective and highly skewed sample it seems a common characteristic of successful mixed unions in Bali is some degree of financial well-being - and that may well be a chicken and egg issue.
To summarize all of that rambling, I think mixed marriages across Asia are more stable than those of the baby boom generations in the west. Large age differences between the partners are not a major factor in the success or lack of it. Maturity, which doesn’t always relate to age, is a big factor as is commitment and that could be a neat segue to the problems of our non-marrying younger generation of the west – but I’ll avoid the temptation to broaden the topic. Right now I'm off to the bazaar and to pay some sort of awed homage to our near neighbor who has just brought home his 3rd bride to share house with the other two. He doesn't believe in having a pacar however :roll:
Getting back to the original topic, my own experience spans 30 years in and around various Asian countries. Over that time I’ve encountered many mixed marriages and would rate them more stable than those of people in my age group in Australia. Cultural hurdles are common to all in the early stages as are problems with the Asian partners family. Elsewhere in the region a child taking a foreign spouse is regarded as an embarrassment for the parents and certainly not some kind of golden goose opportunity. Fortunately the imminence of a grandchild puts that one to bed very quickly and I’ve not seen an instance of a marriage being wrecked by the Asian in laws.
Marriages involving Asia stationed young American servicemen are however glaring exceptions. The failure rate there is way high with the break up often occurring on return to the US and after the spouse obtains citizenship. This leads to accusations of gold digging and undoubtedly that’s sometimes the case. My own amateur root cause analysis is that the problem cases are mismatches where one or the other has entered a relationship with a partner who is not really attractive to them. The reason for doing so is by no means always cynical but more often just youthful excitement over a glamorous situation. The absence of a common language and culture delays the morning after reality that would otherwise set in quickly rather than a few years and a screwed up marriage later. Could something similar be at work here in Indonesia? I don’t know and the reason follows …
Since moving to Bali I am only passing familiar with the expatriate community; mainly through business and my daughter’s school. From what I can see however there are proportionately more mixed marriages here than elsewhere in the region, even when cosmopolitan places like Singapore are included. From my admittedly distant perspective and highly skewed sample it seems a common characteristic of successful mixed unions in Bali is some degree of financial well-being - and that may well be a chicken and egg issue.
To summarize all of that rambling, I think mixed marriages across Asia are more stable than those of the baby boom generations in the west. Large age differences between the partners are not a major factor in the success or lack of it. Maturity, which doesn’t always relate to age, is a big factor as is commitment and that could be a neat segue to the problems of our non-marrying younger generation of the west – but I’ll avoid the temptation to broaden the topic.
Right now I'm off to the bazaar and to pay some sort of awed homage to our near neighbor who has just brought home his 3rd bride to share house with the other two. He doesn't believe in having a pacar however :roll:
Poochie
I have no idea what upset Roy or made him make those remarks. I tried to keep the thread out of the illusion thread as given Berts recent tradgedy I did not think it appropiate at that time.
I also did not start the thread in here although this was suggested by Roy it was in fact Dr. Bruce. I wanted to and still do elaborate much more but my boss is here and I am short of time to put the 30 years of experience as tan expat o the difficulties of Mixed couples in general not just a Balinese or an Asian slant. As Bruce says many new marriages are now from Eastern Europe.
I will post the full details in due course but for now let me give you a flavour:
1. All marriages are difficult unless worked at. Over 50% of western (UK) end in divorce.
2. Take one simple aspect of a Mixed Marrage.....Culture and just think of the problems both major and minor that they have brought. Of course many are solved but it ADDS to the difficulties. This is my whole point about the additions (There are of course the good points)
I will later go and and explain more but let me give you one simple example of something that almost ended my marriage and that was a funeral.
Maria is a Torajan and comes from a poor but high caste family. One of the senior relatives died who had contributed greatly to the family over the years. Each adult member was assessed on the amount to be given for the elaborate funeral rites.
Because I was seen as "rich" my share was assessed as 10,000 dollars. I blew a fuse. In their eyes they had done no wrong but were following their culture. In the end I sorted it out out because my wifes tears at the disgrace of my reaction was worth more than the money. I would have not have had that problem if I hade married within my own culture.
This was nothing to do with gold digging just culture. I have many experiences like that and from others which I will do soon.
I just get tired of Roys constant "I know more about Bali than anybody rants" He stated that all the mixed maariages he knew were happy but forgot about the one that started all of this!!!!
I have no idea what upset Roy or made him make those remarks. I tried to keep the thread out of the illusion thread as given Berts recent tradgedy I did not think it appropiate at that time.
I also did not start the thread in here although this was suggested by Roy it was in fact Dr. Bruce. I wanted to and still do elaborate much more but my boss is here and I am short of time to put the 30 years of experience as tan expat o the difficulties of Mixed couples in general not just a Balinese or an Asian slant. As Bruce says many new marriages are now from Eastern Europe.
I will post the full details in due course but for now let me give you a flavour:
1. All marriages are difficult unless worked at. Over 50% of western (UK) end in divorce.
2. Take one simple aspect of a Mixed Marrage.....Culture and just think of the problems both major and minor that they have brought. Of course many are solved but it ADDS to the difficulties. This is my whole point about the additions (There are of course the good points)
I will later go and and explain more but let me give you one simple example of something that almost ended my marriage and that was a funeral.
Maria is a Torajan and comes from a poor but high caste family. One of the senior relatives died who had contributed greatly to the family over the years. Each adult member was assessed on the amount to be given for the elaborate funeral rites.
Because I was seen as "rich" my share was assessed as 10,000 dollars. I blew a fuse. In their eyes they had done no wrong but were following their culture. In the end I sorted it out out because my wifes tears at the disgrace of my reaction was worth more than the money. I would have not have had that problem if I hade married within my own culture.
This was nothing to do with gold digging just culture. I have many experiences like that and from others which I will do soon.
I just get tired of Roys constant "I know more about Bali than anybody rants" He stated that all the mixed maariages he knew were happy but forgot about the one that started all of this!!!!
Hi Lou
Sorry about that :lol:
Thanks for your post. It is very good and it does put things into perspective re mixed marriages.
I look forward to reading more of your future postings.
Hi Bapak Jimbo
Thanks for your reply and being back so quickly :wink: “isn’t it amazing” :lol: .
This is not the first time you are having a tiff with Oom Roy I am sure when Oom Roy is back you two will give a big hug and kiss.
I can’t wait to read part 2. I promise I will be a super nice kitten :lol: and won't bite (scratch scratch :wink: )
Best wishes
Ni Luh
Lou said:
Sorry about that
:lol: Thanks for your post. It is very good and it does put things into perspective re mixed marriages.
I look forward to reading more of your future postings.
Hi Bapak Jimbo
Thanks for your reply and being back so quickly :wink: “isn’t it amazing” :lol: .
Jimbo said:
This is not the first time you are having a tiff with Oom Roy I am sure when Oom Roy is back you two will give a big hug and kiss.
I can’t wait to read part 2. I promise I will be a super nice kitten :lol: and won't bite (scratch scratch :wink: )
Best wishes
Ni Luh
Thanks Lou for adding the comment about maturity. Definitely important no matter what the age (I'm still working on that issue even as I am about to hit the 57 marker).
I've run across a few similar issues to Jimbo (the funeral thing) where our share of expenses always seemed to be much higher than anyone elses. It took a lot of negotiating and many compromises before my wife and I could come up with something that we both considered fair. As Jimbo says this is related to a difference in cultural expectations.
Well, enough on this issue from me. I'm dealing with tipu-menipu stuff in relation to some new land we purchased here and a magically disappearing civil servant.
I've run across a few similar issues to Jimbo (the funeral thing) where our share of expenses always seemed to be much higher than anyone elses. It took a lot of negotiating and many compromises before my wife and I could come up with something that we both considered fair. As Jimbo says this is related to a difference in cultural expectations.
Well, enough on this issue from me. I'm dealing with tipu-menipu stuff in relation to some new land we purchased here and a magically disappearing civil servant.
Today I would like to add about the "expat" syndrome. This could be anywhere in the developing world not just SE Asia.
There are several kinds of expat:
1. The married kind accompanied with his family
2. The one who is there only for the money
3. A professional expat who can be married, divorced or single.
The first is happy enough, he has his work, his family to come home to and his children (possibly) He has a good life style on a high salary and if he is lucky enters into a similar circle of friends. He has servants or at least his wife has (for the first time in her life) and his children in international schools. All is rosy in his life.
(As an aside I was on my way deep into the jungles of Irian Jaya when I called on the in company manager in Jakarta. I had known this guy for many years and he invited me to his house for dinner. Upon arrival I saw he had a 5 bedroom mansion of the highest quality. I was amazed because his home in the UK was only 2 bedrooms and not particualy salunbrious. I met his wife and pleasantries were exchanged and then during dinner small talk began. Her sole topic of conversation was how poor the quality of servants and the difficulties of obtaining them. I am afraid I was not polite for this jumped up woman who did not know what servants were before going with her husband. There was me going to live in terrible conditions and she was complaing about living in the height of luxury....but I digress)
Where was I? Oh yes the married accompanied one. Well soon he realises that his children are growing up (9 being the optimal age to re-enter the school system) and his children have to go back to Europe to enter the national curriculum. The Mother of course accompanies them and the man becomes a No2 only there for the money.
For some time he struggles on his own before he makes his new group of friends. This time hoever its not the married circuit he joins (He may well be in another country by now) but it may well be the drinkers or Sundowner circuit. Thes men meet mostly directly after work and may be No 2 or No 3 types. They talk about the work and sport and just behave like many all over. The difference here is that they are many thousands of miles away from their families. They go home on leave at various intervals but inevitabley spend more time away than they do at home. All this justified by......the money. They go back to their single staus apartments where the cook has dinner ready for them. Soon their life is away from home and they become No 3's
More about them tomorrow.
There are several kinds of expat:
1. The married kind accompanied with his family
2. The one who is there only for the money
3. A professional expat who can be married, divorced or single.
The first is happy enough, he has his work, his family to come home to and his children (possibly) He has a good life style on a high salary and if he is lucky enters into a similar circle of friends. He has servants or at least his wife has (for the first time in her life) and his children in international schools. All is rosy in his life.
(As an aside I was on my way deep into the jungles of Irian Jaya when I called on the in company manager in Jakarta. I had known this guy for many years and he invited me to his house for dinner. Upon arrival I saw he had a 5 bedroom mansion of the highest quality. I was amazed because his home in the UK was only 2 bedrooms and not particualy salunbrious. I met his wife and pleasantries were exchanged and then during dinner small talk began. Her sole topic of conversation was how poor the quality of servants and the difficulties of obtaining them. I am afraid I was not polite for this jumped up woman who did not know what servants were before going with her husband. There was me going to live in terrible conditions and she was complaing about living in the height of luxury....but I digress)
Where was I? Oh yes the married accompanied one. Well soon he realises that his children are growing up (9 being the optimal age to re-enter the school system) and his children have to go back to Europe to enter the national curriculum. The Mother of course accompanies them and the man becomes a No2 only there for the money.
For some time he struggles on his own before he makes his new group of friends. This time hoever its not the married circuit he joins (He may well be in another country by now) but it may well be the drinkers or Sundowner circuit. Thes men meet mostly directly after work and may be No 2 or No 3 types. They talk about the work and sport and just behave like many all over. The difference here is that they are many thousands of miles away from their families. They go home on leave at various intervals but inevitabley spend more time away than they do at home. All this justified by......the money. They go back to their single staus apartments where the cook has dinner ready for them. Soon their life is away from home and they become No 3's
More about them tomorrow.
RE:
Let me keep the conversation going by leveraging off Jimbo's example of an almost marriage destroying episode. The main difference is that this silly incident did in fact destroy a mixed marriage.
It involved a Hong Kong based Australian expat, level 3a on Jimbo's scale, and his Korean wife of 2 years. Their relationship had been stormy from the start as he had a history of many pre marriage pacars which the wife was aware of; one having been her sister. She was troubled by this, jealous and intensely suspicious. For example when he went out, for 30 minutes or so, to buy the Sunday papers she would check his hair on return to see if there was any wetness from a love hotel shower - it really was that bad.
On the other hand he had become increasingly irritated about finding Kimchi juice on the top of his beer cans. This would in the normal course of the day just migrate from the upper level of the refrigerator. On getting home from the office he would grab a can, open it and take a swig before realizing. A small irritation but along with hair checks it was getting to him - particularly as he no longer had a pacar. He was also a very stubborn guy and wouldn't even consider my suggestion of laying the beer cans on their side rather than upright. The other problem was that she had limited English and his Korean was even less.
The incident that finished them occurred in a Japanese restaurant in Tsimshatsui where they had argued while ordering more sushi than could be eaten. He asked the waitress to put what was left in a doggy bag and that finished the marriage. The wife stormed out in tears, rushed to a Korean operated Karaoke bar further up the road, got drunk and met a Japanese gentleman who became her pacar.
She still insists to this day that her former husband told the waitress to put the sushi in a bag for this dog - meaning her and a deadly insult for a Korean. He was kind of depressed for a long time but then found a very nice Filipino lady and lived happily in a pacar relationship for about 5 years until she kicked him out for refusing to get married. I lost track of him from there but could kind of understand his dilemma as he hadn't been at all successful in his marriages.
This is a 100% true story and I think illustrates how quite trivial issues can be magnified out of all proportion when a cultural and language veil separates the partners. To build on a point made in an earlier post, it is also obvious they were both immature despite he being over and she close to 40.
Let me keep the conversation going by leveraging off Jimbo's example of an almost marriage destroying episode. The main difference is that this silly incident did in fact destroy a mixed marriage.
It involved a Hong Kong based Australian expat, level 3a on Jimbo's scale, and his Korean wife of 2 years. Their relationship had been stormy from the start as he had a history of many pre marriage pacars which the wife was aware of; one having been her sister. She was troubled by this, jealous and intensely suspicious. For example when he went out, for 30 minutes or so, to buy the Sunday papers she would check his hair on return to see if there was any wetness from a love hotel shower - it really was that bad.
On the other hand he had become increasingly irritated about finding Kimchi juice on the top of his beer cans. This would in the normal course of the day just migrate from the upper level of the refrigerator. On getting home from the office he would grab a can, open it and take a swig before realizing. A small irritation but along with hair checks it was getting to him - particularly as he no longer had a pacar. He was also a very stubborn guy and wouldn't even consider my suggestion of laying the beer cans on their side rather than upright. The other problem was that she had limited English and his Korean was even less.
The incident that finished them occurred in a Japanese restaurant in Tsimshatsui where they had argued while ordering more sushi than could be eaten. He asked the waitress to put what was left in a doggy bag and that finished the marriage. The wife stormed out in tears, rushed to a Korean operated Karaoke bar further up the road, got drunk and met a Japanese gentleman who became her pacar.
She still insists to this day that her former husband told the waitress to put the sushi in a bag for this dog - meaning her and a deadly insult for a Korean. He was kind of depressed for a long time but then found a very nice Filipino lady and lived happily in a pacar relationship for about 5 years until she kicked him out for refusing to get married. I lost track of him from there but could kind of understand his dilemma as he hadn't been at all successful in his marriages.
This is a 100% true story and I think illustrates how quite trivial issues can be magnified out of all proportion when a cultural and language veil separates the partners. To build on a point made in an earlier post, it is also obvious they were both immature despite he being over and she close to 40.
I guess Jimbo’s last post is about as good as anywhere on this string for me to throw two more cents in the pot. Jimbo writes:
Jimbo, I am sorry, but that is a very limited list of the kinds of expats.
For example, what about the expat who became an expat only because during one of his/her visits to a foreign country, met and fell in love with the man/woman of their dreams and rather than hauling their new spouse back to their home country, decided to stay and embrace the culture of his/her loved one’s culture? Where do they fit in with your 1, 2, 3, synopsis?
And, what about the expat that arrives in a foreign destination with a round trip ticket, falls in love with the country and culture, rips up the return ticket and never leaves?
Again, I’m sorry Jimbo, but you seem to limit your ideas about expat living around either family obligations, or money. It just isn’t that simple, nor are all folks motivated that way.
I personally do not agree, nor does my circle of friends reflect in any way, that mixed marriage are any more, or less a challenge than non mixed marriages. In truth, my circle of friends here in Bali would reflect just the opposite when I consider my friends from my “other life” back in New York, and Fairfield County, Connecticut.
All of my closest expat friends share with me a lot of the daily frustrations of living in Bali. Sure, we all struggle with cultural differences and nuances that make us sometimes want to pull our hair out. Hanging out at Nuris once in a while can be good therapy, a sort of impromptu group therapy session...seriously. For my wife, Eri, hanging out once in a while with her girl friends, (most of which are married to westerners) is also good therapy for her. But, you know what? This is exactly the same in Western culture...viz, men’s clubs, bowling leagues, the Junior League for women, etc., etc. You can rest assured that the discussions that go on in Nuris, and Western men’s organizations, or with Eri and her other Indonesian women friends, along with the Western women’s organizations, are the SAME.
For me, living within the Balinese culture is much, much better and enjoyable than the Big Apple culture I left behind. I am much more relaxed, my wife never bugs me about making more money, and hardly anybody ever says, “F” you to me anymore! My blood pressure is the best it has been in many years, and as far as the weather goes, how could I ever complain? Bali is the only place I have ever lived where I finally understood the oft heard comment, “stop and smell the roses.” And when I do stop to smell the roses, my wife isn’t there to remind me, it’s time to mow the lawn.
Spiritually, I have also found my niche in Bali. Hindu/dharma is for me personally about as good as an “official” religion gets. Again, as with life here, there is no pressure there either. I go to pura when I want to, and again, when I don’t go, but Eri does, and with the boys, she gives me no issues about it. When I go, I always feel great and somehow lifted in the way I feel. I find the social aspects of Balinese life at their pura totally remarkable and unique in all religions. Raised a Catholic, I never knew “church” could be so much fun.
For me personally, adapting to a mixed marriage and Balinese culture has not been easy. I’m certain my wife Eri would say the same. But love is a verb. And that’s about all I will say on this topic of mixed marriages.
Jimbo, I am sorry, but that is a very limited list of the kinds of expats.
For example, what about the expat who became an expat only because during one of his/her visits to a foreign country, met and fell in love with the man/woman of their dreams and rather than hauling their new spouse back to their home country, decided to stay and embrace the culture of his/her loved one’s culture? Where do they fit in with your 1, 2, 3, synopsis?
And, what about the expat that arrives in a foreign destination with a round trip ticket, falls in love with the country and culture, rips up the return ticket and never leaves?
Again, I’m sorry Jimbo, but you seem to limit your ideas about expat living around either family obligations, or money. It just isn’t that simple, nor are all folks motivated that way.
I personally do not agree, nor does my circle of friends reflect in any way, that mixed marriage are any more, or less a challenge than non mixed marriages. In truth, my circle of friends here in Bali would reflect just the opposite when I consider my friends from my “other life” back in New York, and Fairfield County, Connecticut.
All of my closest expat friends share with me a lot of the daily frustrations of living in Bali. Sure, we all struggle with cultural differences and nuances that make us sometimes want to pull our hair out. Hanging out at Nuris once in a while can be good therapy, a sort of impromptu group therapy session...seriously. For my wife, Eri, hanging out once in a while with her girl friends, (most of which are married to westerners) is also good therapy for her. But, you know what? This is exactly the same in Western culture...viz, men’s clubs, bowling leagues, the Junior League for women, etc., etc. You can rest assured that the discussions that go on in Nuris, and Western men’s organizations, or with Eri and her other Indonesian women friends, along with the Western women’s organizations, are the SAME.
For me, living within the Balinese culture is much, much better and enjoyable than the Big Apple culture I left behind. I am much more relaxed, my wife never bugs me about making more money, and hardly anybody ever says, “F” you to me anymore! My blood pressure is the best it has been in many years, and as far as the weather goes, how could I ever complain? Bali is the only place I have ever lived where I finally understood the oft heard comment, “stop and smell the roses.” And when I do stop to smell the roses, my wife isn’t there to remind me, it’s time to mow the lawn.
Spiritually, I have also found my niche in Bali. Hindu/dharma is for me personally about as good as an “official” religion gets. Again, as with life here, there is no pressure there either. I go to pura when I want to, and again, when I don’t go, but Eri does, and with the boys, she gives me no issues about it. When I go, I always feel great and somehow lifted in the way I feel. I find the social aspects of Balinese life at their pura totally remarkable and unique in all religions. Raised a Catholic, I never knew “church” could be so much fun.
For me personally, adapting to a mixed marriage and Balinese culture has not been easy. I’m certain my wife Eri would say the same. But love is a verb. And that’s about all I will say on this topic of mixed marriages.
Roy
I am afraid I have no interest in debating or discussing anything with you as I explained previously....unless of course I have missed the post you made with an apology in it.
I am afraid I have no interest in debating or discussing anything with you as I explained previously....unless of course I have missed the post you made with an apology in it.
Yes Jimbo, it was likely one of the posts that mysteriously disappeared during the hours of Bert’s computer hantu yesterday.
Too bad you missed it. It included a video stream of me having my head shaved and lathered in pig fat as a ceremonial token of my great regret for whatever it was I should be regretful for.
Come on Jimbo....lighten up. It’s my inherent nature to be direct, and to not pull any punches. Oddly enough, that pretty much sums up most all expats I call friends. If you truly plan on living on Bali, and getting on with the expats here, I suggest you thicken up your skin.
Haven’t you ever wondered why there are so few expats in Bali that take the time to post here? Many realize that to say what is truly on their minds, they would be gone the first day they arrived on this forum. Out of the hundreds of members on this forum, I can only count about ten that are expats...living on Bali, and maybe 14 when we throw in Lombok, Java or other places in Indonesia.
Anyway, I have learned to apologize in three languages....ma’af (Bahasa Indonesia), mea culpa (Latin...and it works everywhere) and a simple a sorry. Which ever one of these suits you best is fine with me...take your pick, or take all.
I don’t mean to disrespect you Jimbo, not at all. If you feel that I have, then indeed, I do sincerely apologize....and in English.
My friend, Bali is my home. I have everything in my life invested here, and most precious of all, my three sons. You can damn well be certain that my opinions and attitudes about Bali will be strong, and presented in a manner that leaves no doubt where I am coming from. If that is not appreciated by you, or other forum members, then let Bert know. If he wants to “nuke” me, he can do it with the simple pressing of a key on his keyboard.