Indonesia's Tax Base

bambang

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Jan 4, 2009
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Indonesia has one of the lowest tax participation rates in Asia. The tax ratio (tax receipts/gdp) is less than 13% and NPWP holders represent less than 2% of the 120 million workers in Indonesia. The recent increase in the Fiscal Tax is specifically aimed at encouraging more people to register with the tax office. The government has stated that this will be a temporary measure and the Fiscal Tax will be abolished in 2011.

The Indonesian government believes (and I suspect rightly so) that there are many people earning incomes above the tax threshold of RP1,000,000 per month who are not paying tax. Increasing the tax base and the ongoing program of tax reform are an essential part of the country’s development.

It’s not surprising that the increase in the Fiscal Tax has caused upset in the expat community. One member here, SG, even has the ridiculous idea that it is somehow a conspiracy by the Indonesian government to suppress its own people. Others are complaining that the local tax officers don’t know how or are refusing to process applications for spouses or kitas holders who are unemployed. Some, like Jimbo, see the sense of it.

It’s really very simple. If you don’t want to pay the Fiscal Tax you should register for income tax. Present your NPWP card at the Fiscal Tax office in the port of departure and you will be exempt. You do not need to be employed to register for tax. It amazes me that so many people find these simple administrative tasks so difficult.

What’s also amazing is that the chattering classes are crying about the lack of infrastructure spending yet are against tax reform initiatives. Despite what some think, the revenue from tourism in Bali, for example, is not even close to being enough to build the infrastructure that Bali needs.

Tourism profits were smashed by the Asian economic crisis in 1997 and the Indonesian Rupiah is still one fifth of the value it was before the crisis. Megawati’s government and the current government have had to commit a large percentage of the national income to pay down the foreign debt from 100% of GDP to around 40% of GDP now and maintaining subsidies that became almost crippling after the devaluation of the rupiah.

The costs of servicing private debt also sky rocketed since loans for most major projects, such as building resorts, were denominated in US dollars. The fiscal position of the private sector mirrors the public sector except for subsidies. Debt repayment and labour costs are where are large part of the tourism revenue goes.

The salaries paid in Bali are almost entirely untaxed. Of course many are under the threshold but you would think that rich expat businesses would be rewarding their staff. It’s interesting, for example, that an expat can run a business generating millions of dollars in revenue and yet not mention anything about their own staff being registered for tax.

The World Bank puts Bali’s local government revenue at around US$120M and yet the local government has recently inaugurated US$100M worth of projects including the first stage of the Denpasar Sewerage Development Project. The majority of the funding came from the federal and Japanese governments which puts the lie to the rivers of gold some imagine are pouring out of the tourism sector.

Interesting also that such a major project as the Denpasar Sewerage Development Project doesn’t rate a mention by the chattering classes. No, they would rather condemn the government for the random cases of cholera without acknowledging that the most effective way to control cholera is to build sanitation infrastructure.

Tax reform measures such as the Fiscal Tax increase will increase the tax base which in turn will provide more funds for the infrastructure that Indonesia so desperately needs. It would be nice to see the expat community get behind these reforms instead of carping endlessly about their miserable lives in paradise.
 

lumumba

Member
Sep 17, 2008
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Bandung-Bali-Jakarta
Good post indeed

BUT, yes there is a BUT

Let me tell you that if you only think for one split second that all those people going to the tax office to get a tax code will pay tax in future YOU ARE fare away from the reality.
I have already a few examples, precisely 7; now they got a number, all legal and everybody is happy. They should pay tax, but they are not. Why not, very simple the system for checking is not working.
System :roll: exist or not exist

One of the 7 his going to Singapore in 3 months time, will not pay the fiscal, he is happy and the government lost 1.000.000

I DO NOT AGREE WITH FISCAL ANYWAY :(
 

SG

Member
Apr 17, 2007
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Sanur, Bali
One member here, SG, even has the ridiculous idea that it is somehow a conspiracy by the Indonesian government to suppress its own people.

Really? Putting words in my mouth are we? If you'd bothered to read my posts before you twaddled rather ignorantly on again you'd have noted that I'd repeatedly advocated measures to increase the tax base.. I simply don't believe that raising the Fiskal exit tax to target the priviledged at the airport does that. Largely the salaried are already taxed...it is that middle class that constitutes the current tax base (them and the part of the population which has the higgest percentage paying tax..expats), and often that tax in built into their salary and paid by their employers..indeed the government has recognised this and is offering to reduced the tax burden on these firms. Does the exit tax concern me personally? No. I have an NPWP and don''t have to pay it. I am advantaged by this new ruling. Does it raise the tax take..the Australian tax advisors to the Indonesian governemnt advised againnst it as a largely pointless action. Do they have more of a grasp on tax enforecemnt than you. Yes. So, I'd guess, the answer is largely no. And 2011 is a review date, not an abolition date.

I know of at least two people, one expat (Hotel GM), one Indonesian (retailer) who have ben refused exemption for their non working wives both of whom have been told previously by the tax authorities that they cannot get NPWP for their wives. And then you get folks writing drivel like "It amazes me that so many people find these simple administrative tasks so difficult.".

You seem to have an almighty chip on your shoulder about the expat community, a chip that both clouds your posts and draws you to erroneous, rather bigoted conclusions that you happily post as facts...as in your rather bizarre and insubstantial response to Suzi's post. You make wild swings at the community without being able to substantiate them. Tossing around figures here and there doesn't really give you the air of substance you think it does. Most expats I know, who runs successful business here not only pay taxes but make every effort to pay taxes for their salaried staff. They tend to come from a culture were tax is regarded as an unavoidable part of doing business. On the the contrary most folks I know who work for Indonesian owned business, both inside and outside Bali, do not. They come from a culture where tax is not regarded as an inevitable part of doing business.

I came away from that extensive post you wrote attacking, without really adding substance to your attacks, Suzi's rather more realistic and constructive post, thinking you were a person with some issues. That opinion hasn't changed. Factually suspect, largely over opinionated and reliant on ad hominen attacks.
 

bambang

Member
Jan 4, 2009
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From a notice on the Indonesian Tax Department web site:

"Bagi yang punya NPWP akan dibebaskan dari biaya fiskal luar negeri mulai 2009, dan pemungutan fiskal luar negeri dihapus mulai 2011," kata Menteri Keuangan Sri Mulyani
Translation: "Those that have an NPWP will be free from paying the overseas fiscal tax beginning 2009 and the collection of the overseas fiscal tax will be abolished beginning 2011" said the Finance Minister Sri Mulyani.

http://www.pajak.go.id/index.php?view=a ... format=pdf
 

wepro

Member
Nov 8, 2005
95
11
8
Canggu
Bambang wrote:
You do not need to be employed to register for tax
I can tell you another story:
My wife (without job) went to the tax office in Denpasar last week to ask for a NPWP number:
The answer from tax office: No job, no tax number!
Another friend of mine, living in Yogjakarta, sent his wife(without job) to the tax office in Yogjakarta last monday. The answer from the tax office there: No job, no tax number.
My wife's sister, living in Jakarta, ask for a tax number there a few weeks ago. The answer from the tax office there: No job, no tax number.
So, what now? Tax office in Denpasar, Yogja and Jakarta gave a wrong information? Or, maybe, Bambang has better information than the tax offices there- so he should give the information to us and to the tax offices concerned :)
Werner
 

bambang

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Jan 4, 2009
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There has been a rush of people applying for registration. I have no doubt, in the interests of "efficiency" or because they are not up to speed on all the regulations, some tax officers have been incorrectly advising applicants.

There is no requirement to be employed to have a tax number. Indeed the government has plans and has already started to link the NPWP to all sorts of transactions that are not employment related. Unemployed spouses and children can be registered on the working partners card or unemployed people can apply for their own card.

What now? I suggest you go back to the tax office and be assertive.
 

Jimbo

Active Member
Jan 11, 2005
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Manchester and Makassar
Tax is made on income not on if you have a job. You can have income without having a job, as in pensions, investments etc.

Not that telling them that will ensure you get a NPWP :D
 

wepro

Member
Nov 8, 2005
95
11
8
Canggu
Jimbo wrote:

Code:
Tax is made on income not on if you have a job

Nice to see all your good informations. But indeed the facts look different . Jimbo, as I now ,you live far away but the reality in Indonesia is as I told you. I gave you 3 samples what happened to Indonesians asking for a NPWP number. Not everybody who comes to tax office asking for a tax number will be accompanied by a tax expert or tax lawyer. It should be so easy to get a NPWP number as some people tells, everybody might have the number. So why the tax office in 1. Denpasar, 2. Yogja and 3. Jakarta refused to give a NPWP number to jobless people?

Werner
 

Sumatra

Member
May 4, 2008
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Boston
All Indonesians should tenaciously resist being "numbered". Just look at how wonderfully number identification has worked out for the citizens of the United States. The coerced savings program known as Social Security has been a total disaster.

George W. Bush murdered the constitution, Barack H. Obama will be presiding over it's burial.

Don :cry:
 

tintin

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Sep 13, 2005
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Boston, MA, USA
Sumatra,

Like always, another sweeping statement with no foundation.

The coerced savings program known as Social Security has been a total disaster.

Tens of million Americans (but this is also true in other countries) would be starving and/or freezing to death if it was not for the basic income provided by S.S.: old people, handicapped people, widows, etc. Instead of shooting your mouth off about something you obviously are totally ignorant about, maybe you should take advantage of your free time and read and educate yourself about the workers' condition in the past centuries, when S.S> did not existed. Grab a copy of any book of Emil Zola and get acquainted with the conditions prevalent at the beginning of the industrial revolution. But also, just simply Google (trust me, it's very simple) and find out the realities of the US society, since this is most likely the only place you have ever been to.

What a miserable person you are. :twisted:
 

Sumatra

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May 4, 2008
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Boston
Evidently Tin,
You haven't taken a good look around lately. For a scientist, you have a very poor grasp of "cause and effect".
I'm well aware of how deplorable the human condition was during the industrial revolution here in this country and thanks to the pendulum swinging too far in the opposite direction, we find ourselves back at point A. (no progress whatsoever) That pitiable level of existence prevails today in many parts of Asia, where wealthy expat industrialists seek out and manipulate the cheapest labor pools possible, all in the name of profit. As a result of this, we have no manufacturing base to bail us out this time, just a passel of morons trying to climb out of the hole by printing more currency.
Have you taken note of where the British pound sterling is right now? Gordon Brown's brilliant bailout plan isn't working and neither will ours.
As cruel as it sounds, I believe Darwin was on to something quite profound with his "Survival of the Fittest" theorem. Not all the little lion cubs will grow up to be big strong lions, not all the tiny sea turtles will make it back to the sea and even the ones lucky enough to have a long life will eventually age, become disabled and be eaten. How could you be so arrogant as to assume, we as humans stand head and shoulders above all other forms of life on this planet and we should operate on a separate code? Does self-awareness make us so different?
Balance will be restored, no matter how many pathetic attempts we make to control our destiny. Control isn't the answer, natural selection is.
Social programs don't work. Not all of us are going to make it, not all of us who make it are going to do it comfortably. Survival is hard business. Does Donner's Pass ring a bell? How about that soccer team who's plane crashed in the Mountains and they ate each other? What happens to any expedition that goes bad in the Himalayan Mountains?
Agreed, these are extreme examples but perfect for illustrative purposes.
Perhaps you need to educate yourself about the actualities of the human condition and how uncontrollable it has been through at least four thousand years of written history.

Don :)
 

Jimbo

Active Member
Jan 11, 2005
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So why the tax office in 1. Denpasar, 2. Yogja and 3. Jakarta refused to give a NPWP number to jobless people?

I cannot answer that question as I was not there nor did I hear the reasons why. The law is what dictates what the officials should do and our expert in that field is KaBim who reads the law in its original form.

All in here try to give advice as they know and understand it. If you do not like or want to take the advice offered go to an expert in Indonesian law. Good Luck
 

tintin

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Sep 13, 2005
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Sumatra,

Another dribble of platitudes on your part. Can you stick to the topic that you first introduced and follow it up intelligently? Have you ever taken a class in public speaking and debating? Most likely not.

I would call what affects you <MOD EDIT>
 

Sumatra

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May 4, 2008
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Tin,
Your last post was a poor refutation in response to my assertion relating to natural selection vs. social engineering. You can do better than that and without using any profanity that most assuredly will be moderated.
I love the free-wheeling, wild west, black market attitude of the average Indonesian. Stamping the mark of the beast (tax ID number) on everyone's forehead, would eventually ruin the games of bargaining and bribery that I love so much.
Iceland has crashed, bloody old England isn't far behind and all the countries who've been dabbling in social engineering (unsuccessfully) are lined up in a row like dominoes waiting to tip. I think Indonesia will do quite well in all of this mess, as "survival of the fittest" seems to be the rule rather than the exception.
Don't tell me what you've read, parroting and worse yet following, the opinions of another person, hardly qualifies as original thought. Social engineering or, Natural selection? Have your ears fallen permanently deaf to the cries of your gut instincts? Have you been crushed into submission, after a lifetime of being beaten down by propagandist conditioning, with an endless chanting of the mantra "equality for all."?
Is it impossible for you to put your head where your heart is and see that this level of equality, has always proven to be more elusive than the Fountain of Youth?
Are you really a scientist or, were you just pulling everyone's leg?

Don :twisted: :D :twisted: :D
 

tintin

Well-Known Member
Sep 13, 2005
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OK, Sumatra, let's back up few posts, to the one you wrote last Thursday. You wrote

The coerced savings program known as Social Security has been a total disaster.

This is the statement I was answering, period. There is nothing in it about survival of the fittest, or any other of your pseudo-philosophical B.S..

So, in this statement, you made TWO assertions:

1) The S.S. program is a coercive saving program, and
2) The S.S. is a total disaster

Obviously you are wrong on TWO counts

1) The S.S. program is as coercive as any other type of taxes (I am sure you will agree that nothing is free in this world). A better word for the S.S. tax would be "compulsory saving."
2) The S.S., as it was designed, works very well, thank you. Personally, like clockwork, I get my check every month. It is money that I, MYSELF, had contributed throughout my working life. It's a minimum guarantee support and this is how and why S.S. was designed.

There is NOTHING about Darwin in this, just two simple facts, which you got completely wrong, in your usual fashion of foaming at the mouth, and which I was trying to answer.

PS. The <MOD EDIT> in my subsequent post was not an personal insult, but just a US expression concerning the medical conditions of your brain and of your mouth. :lol:
 

Jimbo

Active Member
Jan 11, 2005
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games of bargaining and bribery that I love so much

Bargaining down at the pasar is fine. bargaining the price of a bribe for the simplest of things is not, Examples are signing of a school certificate, trying to join the police ot other public bodies. Bribery is endemic in Indonesia to the detriment of its people and country.

The President of Indonesia is trying to stamp it out and so should we. I am sure you want to revisit this statement and perhaps your opinion.
 
Jimbo said:
games of bargaining and bribery that I love so much

Bargaining down at the pasar is fine. bargaining the price of a bribe for the simplest of things is not, Examples are signing of a school certificate, trying to join the police ot other public bodies. Bribery is endemic in Indonesia to the detriment of its people and country.

The President of Indonesia is trying to stamp it out and so should we. I am sure you want to revisit this statement and perhaps your opinion.
Thumbs up, mate 8)
Corruption is poisoning the future of my kids. Therefore I long ago decided to do my best to follow the sometimes hardest way than the "jalan tikus".
 

Sumatra

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May 4, 2008
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Tin,
My mental faculties are just fine. I don't need the "feral" government forcing me to save my own money, I need them to stop taking my money so I can save more of it.
The money they're giving you now in your retirement is pathetic, you won't live long enough to get back even a third of what was taken from you at the point of gun, depending upon how old you were when you started collecting your monthly eagle excrement.
Better start praying for longevity and good health because if you don't have any loving family members or, a competent elderly advocate working for you, you're one stroke away from turning all of that hard earned cash over to some nursing home.
You can sit in a wheelchair with a lump in your throat, drooling on your chest while some degenerate, illegal immigrant, nurse's aid steals the choicest pieces of food from your dinner plate and force feeds you the rest. If you're still able to talk enough to complain, they'll just dope you with ten different meds which will most effectively silence you, it's called chemical restraint. (remember, my mom was an RN for forty years, this knowledge was gleaned from the wealth of her experiences in the field.)
Jimbo/KaBIm.
You may not like it matey's but that's the way it is in Indonesia. If looked at in the proper perspective, it's actually a system of checks and balances. Stamping out "off the table bargaining" will never happen in our lifetimes, unless they have plans in the works to number everyone and make them all carry two names and two forms of picture ID at all times........fat chance.
Welcome to the jungle baby.

Don :D :D :D :D :D :D