Indonesia's Supreme Court has increased the sentences....

[Guest]

Indonesia's Supreme Court has increased the sentences for four Australians convicted of drug smuggling in Bali to the death penalty, officials said.

How can this go on? Tommy Suharto has a judge murdered that punished him and serves <5 years in prison meanwhile four foolish australian drug smugglers receive the death sentence. Hmmmm, something seems seriously ADMIN REMOVED WORDING here. This almost has me wanting to boycott Indonesia and Bali altogether. I believe those Judges will feel the wrath of God when their time comes and their karma is played out in full. ADMIN REMOVED WORDING This is so disgusting i want to buy a plane ticket to Bali tonight and start voicing my opinion to these Judges outside their offices.

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Click the link below to read the BBC article.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-p ... 318890.stm

 

[Roy]

RE: Indonesia's Supreme Court has increased the sentences...

Rafeal, I can understand how this event can appear to be unjust and unfair. The original sentences were handed out after these 9 were found guilty in the District Court in Denpasar, Bali. Four of these 9 defendants found guilty and given from 20 years to life decided to appeal the findings of the District Court in Denpasar to the Supreme Court in Jakarta. Unless their lawyers were incompetent, they had to know up front that this was a gamble as the Supreme Court is empowered to go either way on appeals made to it.

So when you write, “this is so disgusting i want to buy a plane ticket to Bali tonight and start voicing my opinion to these Judges outside their offices” you’d be wasting your time as the judges that made this decision are in Jakarta. Thus, one can argue, that the justices in Bali were lenient by only handing out death sentences to two of the group said to be the ring leaders of this smuggling operation. So come to Bali, but come to relax and have a good time.

The ironic thing (for me anyway) is while the Australians are very upset by this, the facts of the case are that these 9 were arrested in Bali AFTER a tip off given to the Balinese police by Australian authorities. Australia does not have a death penalty, so why did they tip off the Balinese (Indonesian) authorities that they know fully well does have the death sentence? The Australian authorities knew fully well in advance that if they were caught in Bali before flying into Australia that they could face the death penalty.

As for money being the great determiner of justice, where do you know that isn’t the case to one degree or another? Recall the O J Simpson case. There he was found not guilty of murder...a rather vicious double homicide, but in Civil Court was found guilty of causing the wrongful deaths of both his victims. I remind you that this all happened in the US, a country which considers its judicial system the fairest and most noble on earth.

 

[Ipanema]

RE: Indonesia

Roy,

There are very mixed feelings here about the increase in the sentences. Some think it is justified and some don't. I was reading the local newspaper 'your say - letter from readers' and I would say 8 out of 11 that I read agreed with the increase, or were of the mind set that 'they got what they deserved'.

After your explanation it is quite obvious that the Balinese judges were very lenient.

Tina

 

[Guest]

Re: RE: Indonesia

Roy,

and I would say 8 out of 11 that I read agreed with the increase, or were of the mind set that 'they got what they deserved'.

After your explanation it is quite obvious that the Balinese judges were very lenient.

Tina

Hi Tina,
Please dont takes this personally. I guess your post was addressed to Roy and only Roy because he is so special to you or something. What about these young Aussies that will be executed are they of a lesser class than yourself because they broke the law. Do you and your friends think that the death penalty is justified in this case? You must have no problem with the death penalty according to your post. Thats disgusting if you think that these young kids, which is what they are, got what they deserved by being sentenced to death. The death penalty doesn't solve anything except set an example for future law breakers. And even then it most surely falls short of this goal. If you think that the death penalty was justified for this case ADMIN REMOVED WORDING The death penalty is a thing of the past and should be abolished all together except for very violent and extreme cases where there is no other choice, but even then it is still not "OK." I guess all the drug smugglers out there have learned now that Indonesia doesn't tolerate people bringing drugs out of there country and away from their citizens. Like we didn't know this before. Simply put, It is revulting!!
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[Ilu]

RE: Indonesia's Supreme Court has increased the sentences...

I dont agree with death penalty not in Indonesia and not in the USA, but why is someone that stupid that they try to smuggle drugs out of a country that have deat penalty??????????????

Rafael wrote:
I guess all the drug smugglers out there have learned now that Indonesia doesn't tolerate people bringing drugs out of there country and away from their citizens.

So you think its a good thing that someone want to smuggel drugs out of the country.....................
If nobodey wants to buy it, they dont have produce it

 

[quirkyartist]

RE: Indonesia's Supreme Court has increased the sentences...

I agree with Ilu that they were pretty darned stupid. I also don't agree with the death penalty. Not for anyone. I'm not sorry for them being in jail indefinitely, because they obviously thought they were too smart to get caught, but I am sorry if they kill them.

 

[Jimbo]

RE: Indonesia

I do not understand the furure. These people wer smuggling out kilo's of heroin. Why? to sell for profit and ruin the lives of others.

Do you think they cared about them No! If one of their victims died of an overdose do you think the parents of that victim whoud say "Oh they were just young kids" let them off with a light sentance.

These young kids were not just trying out a joint they were smuggling hard drugs to sell for profit not for personal use. All this from a country well publicised for it's harsh sentances for drug runners.

I do not feel sorry for them only for the victims of such people. Maybe now it will finally deter such people from using Indonesia and Bali in particular from running drugs.

 

[charlie]

RE: Indonesia's Supreme Court has increased the sentences...

I don't agree with the death penalty but if you're stupid enough to try to smuggle drugs from a country that does then you have to live with the consequences. Regardless of what people personally think, the law in Indonesia is the death penalty.

The same for the Australian guy who tried to smuugle heroin out ofsingapore.. he was executed and if that's the law then so be it.

I feel terribly sad when these people die, but you follow the laws of the country you are in regardless of your own nartionality.

I just read your post Jimbo, i too also feel sorry for the victims of such people. The guy in singapore had enough heroin to affect the lives of 30,000 people, either directly of indirectly.

 

[Ipanema]

Re: RE: Indonesia

Hi Tina,

Please dont takes this personally.

How can I not take it personally but I did not say that I agreed with the death penalty anywhere - my point was that I was surprised that so many people on the newspapers site agreed.

I guess your post was addressed to Roy and only Roy because he is so special to you or something.

No, I was replying to Roy's post - just as you were reply to my post.


What about these young Aussies that will be executed are they of a lesser class than yourself because they broke the law.

We don't have class distinctions over here and Scott Rush comes from the same city (nearly same suburb) as me and I am the same age as his parents and I have a son the same age. I have taken my son to Bali and told him that if he thought it was necessary I would take him to the jail and show him where he would be living for the next 20 years if he even enquired about druga.

Do you and your friends think that the death penalty is justified in this case?

I don't think I stated my views or my friends views on the death penalty at all.


You must have no problem with the death penalty according to your post. Thats disgusting if you think that these young kids, which is what they are, got what they deserved by being sentenced to death. The death penalty doesn't solve anything except set an example for future law breakers. And even then it most surely falls short of this goal. If you think that the death penalty was justified for this case then you are one sad individual.


You are entitled to your view and believe me I don't lose any sleep over you thinking me a sad individual. I thought that was the purpose of the death penalty was to 'set an example for future law breakers - NOT TO
DO IT.


The death penalty is a thing of the past and should be abolished all together except for very violent and extreme cases where there is no other choice, but even then it is still not "OK."
It depends on who makes the laws and who decides what is a very violent and extreme case I suppose but I would have thought if you were against the death penalty you would be totally against it and not just for very voilent cases.

I guess all the drug smugglers out there have learned now that Indonesia doesn't tolerate people bringing drugs out of there country and away from their citizens. Like we didn't know this before. Simply put, It is revulting!!

I wish i could puke on this post to show my distaste.... UGGGHHHH[/quote][/

They obviously have not learnt and I don't think anybody from another country has the right to decide what is or is not right for that country.

I HAVE RE READ MY POST AND STILL CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU GOT THE IMPRESSION THAT I WAS FOR OR AGAINST THE DEATH PENALTY.

 

[charlie]

RE: Indonesia's Supreme Court has increased the sentences...

I HAVE RE READ MY POST AND STILL CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU GOT THE IMPRESSION THAT I WAS FOR OR AGAINST THE DEATH PENALTY

I'm with you there Tina.

 

[Adele]

RE: Indonesia

I don't agree with the death penalty, but for goodness sake how many years has it been well known that in Asian/Indonesia countries this is the penalty you may face if you are stupid enough to risk drug smuggling. Also what about the death penalities for the users they would be selling to, I think that should be taken into consideration. Herion such a nasty, dirty drug from first hand experience of watching a young friend struggle to try and come off herion only resulting in suicide due to lack of control. Sure you all think well they didn't have to do it in the first place, but if it wasn't there in the first place it wouldn't be a problem would it. In Australia herion dealers are selling smack drug kits for as cheap as Aus$5.00, to introduce these kids to smack (herion) The kit comes with suringe, 1 cap of smack, spoon and water dispenser tray and alcohol swab. Herion, if it doesn't kill you straight off it is a life sentence of the walking dead. I have no sympathy for the idiots who for greed wanted to make a quick buck, but I don't believe in the death sentence, it would be more justice to see them in jail for a long time.

 

[Thorsten]

RE: Indonesia's Supreme Court has increased the sentences...

Hi Rafael,

The death penalty is a thing of the past and should be abolished all together except for very violent and extreme cases where there is no other choice, but even then it is still not "OK."

So what’s now – is it something from the past and should be abolished, or not – and who will decide about exceptions, who will define these exceptions, your rest of the free world???
You state your refusal toward the death penalty and you express your disgust due this punishment practiced by the Republic of Indonesia – fine, so let’s agree to condemn death penalty in general – everywhere, without exception !

This is so disgusting i want to buy a plane ticket to Bali tonight and start voicing my opinion to these Judges outside their offices.

Why to spend a lot of money for a ticket around the half world Rafael?
Living in a Nation, where even people with mental diseases are executed; where children are dragged out in handcuffs from Kindergarten for putative sexual abuse, while at the other hand sexual abuse and humiliation is fundamental part of interrogation tactics; a Nation which not even accept the Convention of Geneva as a minimum standard for its prisoners, where people are kept, tortured, killed in illegal prisons around the world for years, without any prosecution at all; a president who once stated public, he would rather invade the Netherlands before any of its citizens would be prosecuted by the International Court in Den Haag; in a nation, where you can simply shoot anybody knocking on your door protected by national law; where you can get a life sentence for three verdicts, no matter why; considering only these few examples for your “legal” system, I wonder why you would like to go to Indonesia and complain there – maybe you should start at home first?

The Bali 9 have known about the risk, they decided to ignore it for which reasons ever, by setting one foot on Indonesian ground they committed the national law of RI, now they have to face the consequences for their own fault, so simple it is!

Another thing, please do us all a favour and spare your “ God bless America ” crap for the sake of the rest of the free world !

Best regards
Thorsten

 

[Roy]

RE: Indonesia's Supreme Court has increased the sentences...

Rafeal, just some friendly advice: If you want to soap box on the issue of the death penalty, then you should begin with your own legislatures in the US. More criminals are executed there than anywhere else. In the US there have been 1,045 executions since 1976.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article ... =8&did=186

Maybe your mother never taught you this, but “people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.”

 

[Ipanema]

RE: Indonesia

The thing I like about this forum - for the most part you can state your views and I personally learn a lot from what other people think and write. You don't have to agree with what people say but we usually hear them out, think about it for a while and then reply if we have something to say.


For instance Roy's point about the Bali judges being lenient - I would never have thought that. It gave me 'food for thought' and it made dam good sense.

I don't post a lot - I am not an expat and usually just read but this is something I had an opinion on and it has been a bad week in Australia with Steve Irwin's death and now Peter Brocks.

 

[Guest]

RE: Indonesia's Supreme Court has increased the sentences...

I am sorry if i upset anybody or came across the wrong way, it was not my intention. I dont deny the fact that here in the US we have serious problems with our Juduicial system and the death penalty in general. I am against the death penalty in all cases except for people like your Jefffry Dahmers, Ted kacinskis, Timothy McVeighs, and Khalid Sheikh Mohameds out there. the death penalty is not justified in its cause should someday be abolished like slavery was around the world and then almost lastly in the US. These australian's did make a choice to traffick drugs as soon as they strapped the stuff on there bodies. Whether the drugs themself were a death sentence to 30,000 other people in australia like someone aforementioned is up for debate just like my stance is. Correct me if i am wrong but i believe i mentioned in an earlier post how not only was a disgusted by the death senteance that was handed down after an appeal was made but also that Suharto's son was let out of jail for orchestrating the murder of a Judge. How can someone who smuggles herion be sentenced to death but some prominent and very rich son be bascially acquitted of first degree murder and released after four years. This proves my point that in Indonesia's courts people are not treated equally and that the courts obviously think that someone taking the law into there own hands is fine with them. What an example to set for the rest of the country. This guy had a judge killed for crying out loud, he should be the one on Death Row.

 

[tintin]

RE: Indonesia

...and if you like the death penalty, you must LOVE Texas, home of the "beloved" US President, which leads the pack with 371 executions, 1/3 of the total.

And George W. Bush, during his six years as governor of Texas, presided over 152 executions, more than any other governor in the recent history of the United States.

On the other hand, this is puny compared to the more than 100,000 civilians killed in Iraq because of his idiotic ideas. :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

[Guest]

Re: RE: Indonesia

...and if you like the death penalty, you must LOVE Texas, home of the "beloved" US President, which leads the pack with 371 executions, 1/3 of the total.

And George W. Bush, during his six years as governor of Texas, presided over 152 executions, more than any other governor in the recent history of the United States.

On the other hand, this is punny compared to the more than 100,000 civilians killed in Iraq because of his idiotic ideas. :evil: :evil: :evil:

The death penalty shoulkd be abolished but only used against the scum of the earth like your Khalid Sheikh Mihmmeds and timothy mcveighs, not a bunch of kids that wanted to make money by traficcking drugs. what about the 3,000 people killed on 9/11, did they just die in vain? i dont disagree with you regarding Bush because what you stated is a fact but i dont see how it pertains to the Bali 9 or the fact that someone can kill a judge in Indonesia and serve 4 years in prison. what do you think about that? In war people die and that is what war is, so what is your point? I believe in WWI more Englishmen died in the first day of the battle of the somme than in the first three years of war in Iraq. How is that relevant to anything? People die in war and that includes innocent lives. That is why war is called war. :shock:

 

[tintin]

RE: Indonesia

Rafeal,

You wrote,

In war people die and that is what war is, so what is your point?

I was not "aiming" at you with my last statement; I was just amplifying Roy's.

Yes, Rafeal, people do die is war, and my point is that the person(s) who start an unnecessary war, a war of conquest, is (are) greater criminal(s) than Khalid Sheikh Mohammed or Timothy Mcveigh.

 

[Thorsten]

RE: Indonesia's Supreme Court has increased the sentences...

Hi again Rafael,

Well, I’m reading your words and I hardly try to extract some sense out of this, but I have to admit having problems while trying this.

You are against the death penalty (a little bit), but you support the death penalty for the scum of the earth, so I ask you once more, what now, yes, no, maybe a little bit, yes but, I ask you Rafael, who will judge who is the scum of the earth and who is not, which standards of definition should be used to define this and who will be entitled to set up these definitions?

The comparison of different trials, cases is not appropriate, maybe you are an expert in the Tommy Suharto case, I’m not, but maybe you want to enlighten us with your insight and why and where the court is wrong there- so what do you know about this case?
When the Corby thing was handled by Australian media, they always pointed on Bashir, that was just the same crap like what you are stating here, nothing to compare and in case of Bashir no evidence at all for a prosecution, only due political “conflicts” thy came out with this conspiracy thingy – to calm down Australia!

Yes, I think it’s not right to kill these drug traffickers, at least at this point we agree, but they have known before the consequence of their acting, when I’m riding my motorbike with over 200km/h on a land road here, I will lose my driver license and pay a pretty fine when caught, smoking in a cab in Hong Kong will be charged with 5,000 HK$ (500 €), walking into an Indonesian airport with 1Kg heroine strapped on your body can cost your life when caught, the risk is comparable to Russian roulette!

People die in war and that includes innocent lives. That is why war is called war. :shock:

This cynical statement proves your absolutely incompetence what you are talking about, simply clueless and to comment this with a smiley is also tasteless!

Best regards
Thorsten


PS: Daniel get your numbers right, the last official statement I've heard reagrding civil victims in Iraq was 350,000, the statement was given by G.W.B. personally in a life interview, this was already some months ago!

 

[Poli]

RE: Indonesia's Supreme Court has increased the sentences...

Thanks Jimbo, a sensible reply and one with which I am in 100% agreement.