indonesian relationships?

matahari

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Mar 8, 2005
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A year back ago I had a balinese girlfriend for a couple of months and it was totaly different from what I was used to from the past. It was a mixture of hell and heaven... sometimes so incredible nice, and othertimes unbearable pain.

most of the problem/fights we had started of because of stupid misunderstandings and what finaly led to the breakup was all the frustration of not being able to understand eshouder properly.


It would be interesting to hear other peoples experiences of partnership with an indonesian! (good or/and bad)
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
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Ubud, Bali
My Rules of Engagement…for Tamu men:

1) It’s her country, and her culture. Learn to adapt, without abdicating your own culture.
2) People are people. The good and bad that is inherent in us all is also embodied in the Balinese.
3) Beware of drunkenness…not that as brought on by alcohol or drugs, but as brought on by Bali itself. Bali is intoxicating enough. Couple that with a romance, and it’s very easy to loose one’s footing.
4) Avoid expressing anger at all costs. Never raise your voice, and keep your tone always on a neutral level.
5) Engage her family. Meet them, and do your best to let them see your true feelings.
6) Participate in her family’s ceremonies. While not required to become Hindu, some participation is expected as these ceremonies have a social as well as religious purpose.
7) Trust your “inner voice.” Your gut feelings are on equal ground with the feelings from your heart.

Next...Be true to yourself. Being yourself is honest and easily understood. Don’t try to act in anyway that you think is what she, or her family, wants to see.
9) Maintain a great sense of humor, even to laughing at yourself.
10) Have fun, and show your zest for life.
 

matahari

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Mar 8, 2005
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yaa, really good advice Roy. but I guess it`s like everybody say - love makes you do crazy things. so to control oneself in some situations is problably easier said then done.
 

Jimbo

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Jan 11, 2005
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Manchester and Makassar
I have been a professional expatriate for over 30 years. In that time I have seen many relationships in many different cultures mostly expat males to local females. The majority of them fail (over 90%). I could give you many different reasons why but the single biggest one is taking the girl away from her home, her culture and her family. Far better in my opinion to stay in the girls country of origin.

There are exceptions however that do work out my own included. I took my wife away and at first it was extemely difficult as went away again and am still doing it now. At the end of the day its what you make your relationship to be. If you both want it to work it will. I have been married to my Indonesian wife for 22 years and we have 4 children. There have been times when it might have failed but the children and the desire to make it work held us together.

The moral of this tale: Better to have love and lost than never to have loved at all.
 

Feelhip

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Apr 15, 2004
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Boston - USA
Married for 20 year with my Indonesian wife. Why did it work? Well I guess because I didn't had to go back to my country. After Indonesia I was transfered to neighbors Asian country. We went to Malaysia, Thailand, after 14 years in this region we went to Mexico, France (for a year) and now US. So we were both expatriate. The time we spent in Asian country make it easier for us to know each other better in a region where my wife could feel at ease. We we left Asia, it was hard for both of us, but Mexico being a easy going country, the transition went quite well.
It would have been much more difficult for her to go strait to France with the prospect of staying there for the rest of her life. I have been lucky.

Philippe
 
Married 16 years living in Bali. First year of marriage.. hell.. luckily has got better and better ever since. The reason for the terrible beginning... misunderstandings mainly, fighting over something that turned out to be we were in agreement but the language caused most of the misunderstandings... me trying to learn the new culture, getting frustrated but thankfully i hung in there adapted just like Roy says you have to adapt to the local culture, it takes time and I’m still learning.

Advice to mix marriages... always try and stay in the same country... i see so many split ups due to one trying to live in the other country trying to save money to bring to Indonesia, while the other lives in Indonesia, then when they get back together it just doesn't work.

Also much easier i think for foreign males than foreign females when married to Balinese Hindu's. So much pressure is placed on the female here to straight away having to be involved in every day life, getting involved in the religion that they know so little about, as the female has to do most of the preparations for ceremonies.
 

drbruce

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Feb 12, 2004
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cyberbali.com
We've been married for fourteen years with the usual (and unusual) ups and downs. As Richard notes, it's not a great idea to leave your spouse to get money overseas. I did it for four years while I worked in Pakistan, and it put a lot of strain on the marriage. As Jimbo notes, the kids can have an enormous amount to do with keeping a marriage together. Cultural misunderstandings and conflicts are really the killer, not matter how much you think you know or how open you think you are.

What I find interesting is this sense that it's better not to take the Indonesian woman out of her setting. I hear the same thing from Western guys married to Thai women. Is this saying that women are less adaptable than men? Or that Asians are less adaptable than Westerners? What do you ladies feel who are married to Indonesian men?
 

mimpimanis

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Nov 4, 2003
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Made & I have been married for nearly 6 years together 8.

Unfortunately I do have to leave Indonesia to earn money & though it sometimes put a strain on us we know that without it we would not have been able to build our home or business. Our business still only takes very little money. But we are hoping that once we are in the Rough Guide later this year that we will have more guests. Until things pick up though I will still have to work in UK.

Like some others have said, the most arguments were in the first year or so while I was adapting to Indonesian life & Made was adapting to some of my beliefs & standards. In recent years we have hardly argued at all. I am quite lucky, that even though Made is Balinese, because we are the only non muslims, in our village, there is no pressure to do all the "temple activities" that other women married to Balinese men have.

Now that mum has died I hope to spend less time away from Lombok. I have booked to return there on June 26th & hope to make my money last for 8 months & then return to UK to work for only 4. Which leads me to a question of Kitas or social budaya for 8 months? But I will start a new thread with that.

Gemma
 

Ratih

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Nov 3, 2004
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Re: RE: indonesian relationships?

drbruce said:
We've been married for fourteen years with the usual (and unusual) ups and downs. As Richard notes, it's not a great idea to leave your spouse to get money overseas. I did it for four years while I worked in Pakistan, and it put a lot of strain on the marriage. As Jimbo notes, the kids can have an enormous amount to do with keeping a marriage together. Cultural misunderstandings and conflicts are really the killer, not matter how much you think you know or how open you think you are.

What I find interesting is this sense that it's better not to take the Indonesian woman out of her setting. I hear the same thing from Western guys married to Thai women. Is this saying that women are less adaptable than men? Or that Asians are less adaptable than Westerners? What do you ladies feel who are married to Indonesian men?

I don't think Asian women are less adaptable than Westerner. I knew a lot of Asian women who do just fine here in the State. A lot of Indonesian women whom married to American and live in the State also do just fine.
It is true that it takes some time to adjust to a new life, but from what I saw here, I don't think gender or ethnicity have anything to do with a person ability to adapt to its new environment.
That is just my observation, yours probably different.

Ratih
 

Roy

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Nov 5, 2002
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Ratih, you make a very valid point…that a lot of Asian women do just fine when removed from their cultural environment. I think though that the backgrounds of these women share a commonality…highly educated, perhaps even in the West, family already there (in the West), or at least some experience with the West beyond their spouse. In my experience, (shared by friends), this applies equally to Indo/Balinese men married to western women who leave Bali/Indo to live with their wife in the West, or the states.

In most of the major population centers of Australia, there are large pockets of mixed OZ/Indo, and OZ/Bali marriages. In all of these centers, the Balinese, and other Indonesians seem to know one another, and frequently get together. I have been told over and over by Indo/Balinese that live in OZ with their spouse, that this helps a lot in their marriages. The urge and importance to maintain cultural ties is vitally important, and for the Balinese in particular, it seems to me to be absolutely essential.

My Balinese wife has a great interest in traveling to the states with me and our boys when they are old enough to appreciate it, and remember the experience. She is college educated, but I have no doubts that if I had taken her back to the states after we were married, she would have grown tremendously home sick. I realize that I am very, very fortunate to be able to prosper in Bali, and that we can live in my wife’s village, surrounded by her family.

Wow! Some really great stories from Iris, Dr. Bruce, Jimbo, Feelhip, Richard and Gemma. They are all personal sharing, not often encountered on a forum, and truly heart felt.

Kim, you started this string. If you’re good at “reading between the lines” I think the clear message is, “don’t give up.” One of the best quotes I’ve ever heard on the topic of love came from what could be construed as an odd source, a very close friend, a second lieutenant in the US Marines, and a highly decorated Vietnam War veteran. As he put it, “love is a verb.”
 

matahari

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Mar 8, 2005
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I`m amazed that so many are willing to share their relationship experiences and it`s really nice to read all your stories.

And from reading them I sense that having a relationship with someone from a totaly different cultural background and living in mixture is something that in the begining is pretty complex and hard, but if hanging in there and like you concluded Roy "not giving up" there can be a big reward* in the form of true love.

I feel that if you give up on love, you give up life.
For what is life without love?

Me myself has not yet find that special someone, and I for sure feel that something big is missing in my life... but like the dreamer and optimist I am I belive that someday when I`m ready it will happen.

a bit corny but what heck :)
 

Roy

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Nov 5, 2002
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Yup, it's "corny" for sure, but you are among friends, and that means a lot. I'm convinced, that in a face to face conversation with anyone who conributed to this string, the words would have been the same, eye ball to eye ball.
 

makavelli

New Member
May 7, 2005
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Harris St, Sydney...
i never had a relationship with balinese...
but i think its a matter of sacrifice and understanding..
cultural diversity is not a major problem..
the major thing is wether both person could give sacrifice to maintain the relationship...
and how big the "willing" for it..:)
 

Cassienne

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Aug 28, 2004
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New Zealand - Bali soon!
Hi
Although I have not had a relationship with a Balinese, a lot of my friends have, so I thought I'd throw my two cents in.
Balinese men are very good at being charming and sweet and romantic. But often its hard to tell what they are really after. (I'm talking mainly about younger guys here) You may think I'm pretty cynical, but I've seen a lot since I've been here. A lot of guys just want to have a good time with someone who can buy them things, or they see westerner as their ticket out of the country. I'm not saying all guys are like that, there's some lovely guys here, but a lot of them are. So often you think everythings going great, your'e in love, he's in love with you - and then suddenly he gets a better offer and he's gone just like that. Or else you find out he's married (that's happened to two of my friends). It's very disillusioning.
And one thing I am really not going to miss is being yelled at and wolf whistled all the time. Kuta is the worst, but everywhere's pretty bad. "Hi honey, where are you going, I love you, you're beautiful...." ALL THE TIME! And those are the nice ones, they say much worse things.
But I guess these are the younger guys who just want to have fun. I can well believe it more often works out when the Balinese is a woman, and the foreigner is a man. Balinese women seem to have a very strong sense of family from a very young age, so they think more long term. Course I'm generalising here, I can already see Roy going blue in the face and jumping on his keyboard :wink:
But this is what I've seen in the ten months I've been here so far.
Love Cass
 

matahari

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Mar 8, 2005
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Cass, your observation is simmilar to mine and I agree with what you say, but I also think it`s pretty understandable behavior. Most of the western young girls coming to bali is coming for a good time, and most young men wherever you go in the world is looking for a good time, so these people are just providing for one another... and in some cases someone gets hurt, both women and men, western and local. This is just the way thing`s are.

And what you say about guys tend think in shorterm and girls thinking more in longterm might also be true, but is neither of them better or worse then the other?
 

matahari

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Mar 8, 2005
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good times = do something different, meet new people, new experience etc

so know one misunderstand what I mean with "good times"

:)