:I have recently joined the forum and am desperately looking for as built prices due to building a house for my wife in a Kampung in Pakisaji Malang and coming short. I should add that I am a seasoned expat, a carpenter by trade but now a chartered builder FCIOB with over 40 years experience in the building industry 12 of those in the Far East and another 15 in other parts of the world including 6 in Zimbabwe. I tried every which way to set up procedures including drawings and specifications and 3 members of my wife's family involved with the construction. Her Granddad (who claimed to be a projects manager in the construction industry all his life on building houses) supervising the work, her brother organising the labour and materials and her Father paying out the Money.The following is an Email I sent to my friend for his advice.I now ask for similar advice from all the members of this forum.( I recently invested £6,363 in Indonesia for land for a house and garden measuring approx 216 square metre. I bought a further 555 square metre close by for a separate walled garden for recreational purposes for to keep my pigeons, a few hens, a couple of geese, a goat, make a well in the centre, a potting shed and summer house, put it to lawn and grow herbs, roses and flowers with a stream all round - that sort of thing. This because the 216 square metres were only big enough for the house, a swimming pool, an aviary and a waterfall and fish pond.
First I sent Indonesian Rp 31mill (£1,700) for two plots of land but because Natalia's Mother was very ill with complications resulting from diabetes this was all used up in medical / hospital expenses and funeral fee's so I had to send it again. Next I sent another Rp 61mill (£3,346) for 3 parcels of land measuring a total of 216 square metres.One of the parcels has a two storey house on it but as it was badly constructed it has to come down.
Next I sent £10,000 and received Rp182,900,000 for it at exchange rate of approx Rp18230 to £1. This was to pay for the 555 [Rp 55,500,000(£3,044)] metres of land which we now have and the remainder was to build the house.
When I was there last year a taxi driver informed me he could get a house built for me for Rp 800,000 square metre no doubt about it. Later he said this was to Indonesian standard and said Gwelo standard would cost Rp1,000,000 Sq. Metre. Later he revised the figure to Rp1,200,000 per square metre - this I suspect after he had been talking to a local builder who had advised him to talk the price up because I am Gwelo.
I have designed a two storey house with an attic, nothing fancy, measuring 175 square metre and on the taxi drivers predictions should expect a building cost of Rp 175 mill to Rp 210mill. I tried to hire contractors to do the work for me but they wanted outrageous sums like Rp 550,000,000 etc. I pointed out to one of them that a contractor at Jog Jar would build you anything you liked at Rp1,500,000 per Sq. Meter and after that he reduced his price to Rp300,000,000 but when it was time to sign the contract he did not turn up. Instead he sent along to my room a claim for an extra on the price of Rp30mill for the kitchen fittings which he said he had not included for.
As this was on the very last day of my visit I asked my Grandfather in Law who says he was a project manager all of his life on housing and my Farther in Law who is a Church Minister and who has some experience of building (having built his own church) if they could organise it for me.They said they could so I left it to them.
One month later on and the situation is terrible. I have sacked the granddad after only two weeks as he did not set the house out to the dimensions shown on my drawings. He did not build half a metre away from the boundary resulting in the roof overhanging my nieghbours boundary. Fortunately I caught this and stopped the brickwork from going above the DPC. All the other rooms are too big resulting in 400mm being lost from the width of the hall and stairs. I have caught this also and instructed corrections.
They have disobeyed my instructions and not used ready mix concrete nor the bricks that I provided as a sample. They have built the septic tank first even though I told them to build it last and how it's in the garage where i did not want it. I will turn this in to a fresh water stand by tank but I'm not happy about that due to the close proximity it has to be to the septic tank.They have used hand made sun dried bricks which are pure shit in the brickwork below damp proof course instead of my factory pressed brick and these bricks are so poor even a rat could knorr it away if it were persistent enough.
Instead of ready mix concrete in the foundations I believe they have used the earth they dug out of the foundation and mixed it with cement to make the concrete. I have seen this done before in very low class area's and I think it's been done on my house as I cannot see any purchases for sand and gravel around the time of them putting in the foundations.
The worst bit of all is that Rp 65 mill has been spent on the house up to now and the ground floor slab is not yet complete. They let the builder construct a ground beam at ground floor level even though I do not show one on my drawings or describe it in my specification as it is not needed as there is a bloody big foundation only one metre down supporting the brickwork and columns. All of this has added to the delay and the expense.
Natalia's brother Andik has been organising the men and the materials and I am surprised to see that only Rp12,900,000 has been paid out in labour to the men. The rest has gone on materials and miscellaneous building equipment. This labour equals approx 20% of the amount spent so far so the ratio of labour /material would appear to be wrong as in the UK the ratio is something like 40% labour 60% material. I know the labour is very cheap in Indonesia still I would not expect the Labour/Material ratio to be all that different.
Andik does not appear to been shopping wisely as he paid Rp175,000 for 5 bags of cement and then Rp,6,950,000 for 200 bags. That's 10 ton of cement and when you order in bulk the price goes way down. Can be as much as 40% less. From the above he paid Rp35,000 per bag for the 5 bags and Rp34,750 a bag for the 200 bags. This does not make sense because that's a deduction of less than 1% and he should have been able to buy the 200 bags for Rp21,000 each giving a total cost for the 200 bags of Rp4,200,000 or something like that with a total saving of Rp2,750,000.
Something is not right and I'm trying to put my finger on it. In the mean time I have stopped the job and sacked Andic. His brother Andrea is acting night watchman for Rp 150,000 month.Until I decide what to do I have requested photos be taken on the lines of a plan I have Emailed to Andik. Also I am requesting to know the total sum expended up to now from the Rp182mill - there was Rp42mill left at the last count up to the 20th September but would you believe it although I instructed the job be stopped last Saturday afternoon it was not stopped until Tuesday this week because the workers would not accept Andiks or Natalia's Fathers word that we wanted the job stopped and wanted to hear it from Natalia. Seems to me like there was unfinished business that needed rectifying or covering up before they abandoned the site.
At present I am doing an analysis and reconciliation of the materials used in the work including materials left on site. The answers always came quickly before but now it's like trying to pull back teeth and the information is not readily forthcoming.
As you can well imagine I am mightily pissed off with the whole family as I considered they owed me for what I did for their Mother, although not looking for any thanks in that direction there was none that came either.
Now I feel very bitter about Indonesia as every time I try to infiltrate or blend with the community I bump the wagon in business matters as they as a race seem incapable of doing a straight deal and see the gwelo someone to be ripped off at every opportunity. I feel very apprehensive about going to live their as I would be living in a Kampung and even though Natalia was born and raised in the same Kampu ng it is no guarantee that I would be accepted by the residents who are mainly Muslim. The people are friendly enough to me and always give me big smiles when I visit but that may not be the case if I resided their.
I am very confused and cannot think straight because I am immersed in the problem which is affecting me emotionally.
Please advise,
Your good friend,
John
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First I sent Indonesian Rp 31mill (£1,700) for two plots of land but because Natalia's Mother was very ill with complications resulting from diabetes this was all used up in medical / hospital expenses and funeral fee's so I had to send it again. Next I sent another Rp 61mill (£3,346) for 3 parcels of land measuring a total of 216 square metres.One of the parcels has a two storey house on it but as it was badly constructed it has to come down.
Next I sent £10,000 and received Rp182,900,000 for it at exchange rate of approx Rp18230 to £1. This was to pay for the 555 [Rp 55,500,000(£3,044)] metres of land which we now have and the remainder was to build the house.
When I was there last year a taxi driver informed me he could get a house built for me for Rp 800,000 square metre no doubt about it. Later he said this was to Indonesian standard and said Gwelo standard would cost Rp1,000,000 Sq. Metre. Later he revised the figure to Rp1,200,000 per square metre - this I suspect after he had been talking to a local builder who had advised him to talk the price up because I am Gwelo.
I have designed a two storey house with an attic, nothing fancy, measuring 175 square metre and on the taxi drivers predictions should expect a building cost of Rp 175 mill to Rp 210mill. I tried to hire contractors to do the work for me but they wanted outrageous sums like Rp 550,000,000 etc. I pointed out to one of them that a contractor at Jog Jar would build you anything you liked at Rp1,500,000 per Sq. Meter and after that he reduced his price to Rp300,000,000 but when it was time to sign the contract he did not turn up. Instead he sent along to my room a claim for an extra on the price of Rp30mill for the kitchen fittings which he said he had not included for.
As this was on the very last day of my visit I asked my Grandfather in Law who says he was a project manager all of his life on housing and my Farther in Law who is a Church Minister and who has some experience of building (having built his own church) if they could organise it for me.They said they could so I left it to them.
One month later on and the situation is terrible. I have sacked the granddad after only two weeks as he did not set the house out to the dimensions shown on my drawings. He did not build half a metre away from the boundary resulting in the roof overhanging my nieghbours boundary. Fortunately I caught this and stopped the brickwork from going above the DPC. All the other rooms are too big resulting in 400mm being lost from the width of the hall and stairs. I have caught this also and instructed corrections.
They have disobeyed my instructions and not used ready mix concrete nor the bricks that I provided as a sample. They have built the septic tank first even though I told them to build it last and how it's in the garage where i did not want it. I will turn this in to a fresh water stand by tank but I'm not happy about that due to the close proximity it has to be to the septic tank.They have used hand made sun dried bricks which are pure shit in the brickwork below damp proof course instead of my factory pressed brick and these bricks are so poor even a rat could knorr it away if it were persistent enough.
Instead of ready mix concrete in the foundations I believe they have used the earth they dug out of the foundation and mixed it with cement to make the concrete. I have seen this done before in very low class area's and I think it's been done on my house as I cannot see any purchases for sand and gravel around the time of them putting in the foundations.
The worst bit of all is that Rp 65 mill has been spent on the house up to now and the ground floor slab is not yet complete. They let the builder construct a ground beam at ground floor level even though I do not show one on my drawings or describe it in my specification as it is not needed as there is a bloody big foundation only one metre down supporting the brickwork and columns. All of this has added to the delay and the expense.
Natalia's brother Andik has been organising the men and the materials and I am surprised to see that only Rp12,900,000 has been paid out in labour to the men. The rest has gone on materials and miscellaneous building equipment. This labour equals approx 20% of the amount spent so far so the ratio of labour /material would appear to be wrong as in the UK the ratio is something like 40% labour 60% material. I know the labour is very cheap in Indonesia still I would not expect the Labour/Material ratio to be all that different.
Andik does not appear to been shopping wisely as he paid Rp175,000 for 5 bags of cement and then Rp,6,950,000 for 200 bags. That's 10 ton of cement and when you order in bulk the price goes way down. Can be as much as 40% less. From the above he paid Rp35,000 per bag for the 5 bags and Rp34,750 a bag for the 200 bags. This does not make sense because that's a deduction of less than 1% and he should have been able to buy the 200 bags for Rp21,000 each giving a total cost for the 200 bags of Rp4,200,000 or something like that with a total saving of Rp2,750,000.
Something is not right and I'm trying to put my finger on it. In the mean time I have stopped the job and sacked Andic. His brother Andrea is acting night watchman for Rp 150,000 month.Until I decide what to do I have requested photos be taken on the lines of a plan I have Emailed to Andik. Also I am requesting to know the total sum expended up to now from the Rp182mill - there was Rp42mill left at the last count up to the 20th September but would you believe it although I instructed the job be stopped last Saturday afternoon it was not stopped until Tuesday this week because the workers would not accept Andiks or Natalia's Fathers word that we wanted the job stopped and wanted to hear it from Natalia. Seems to me like there was unfinished business that needed rectifying or covering up before they abandoned the site.
At present I am doing an analysis and reconciliation of the materials used in the work including materials left on site. The answers always came quickly before but now it's like trying to pull back teeth and the information is not readily forthcoming.
As you can well imagine I am mightily pissed off with the whole family as I considered they owed me for what I did for their Mother, although not looking for any thanks in that direction there was none that came either.
Now I feel very bitter about Indonesia as every time I try to infiltrate or blend with the community I bump the wagon in business matters as they as a race seem incapable of doing a straight deal and see the gwelo someone to be ripped off at every opportunity. I feel very apprehensive about going to live their as I would be living in a Kampung and even though Natalia was born and raised in the same Kampu ng it is no guarantee that I would be accepted by the residents who are mainly Muslim. The people are friendly enough to me and always give me big smiles when I visit but that may not be the case if I resided their.
I am very confused and cannot think straight because I am immersed in the problem which is affecting me emotionally.
Please advise,
Your good friend,
John
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