Crossing the Line of Good and Evil

[Bert Vierstra]

Now, what "does it take", not to get swamped by the obvious present less praisable parts of Bali, and enjoy a life here?, what "does it take" to not wanting to post things like Balibounder1 and others have posted?

I somehow think its a pity that this, in my eyes very important, issue seems to die.

Many of us have read Py's exellent post about the differences between the perception of Expats and Tourists of paradise.

You can say all the bad things you want about Balibounder, but he is not alone in his opinion.

I am wondering, if there would be a way that could change the perception of a Balibounder and the likes of him / her?

When I first came to Bali, I also had to go to a process "of learning to see Bali as it is", my Harry stories are a part of this.

And do I now know Bali?, after just 3.5 years? No, I am far from that...

 

[mikeR]

Re: RE: Crossing the Line of Good and Evil

When I first came to Bali, I also had to go to a process "of learning to see Bali as it is", my Harry stories are a part of this.

And do I now know Bali?, after just 3.5 years? No, I am far from that...

I am reminded of the 6 phases of expatriate adjustment that Charles Gullick speaks about.

(1) spectator phase - elation, euphoria, & the perception of everything as new & exciting

(2) increasing participation - accommodation to the host culture, but also encounter of obstacles

(3) first shock - overload of new data, which may lead to resistance to new ideas, approaches, & methods of operation

(4) surface adaptation - integration of new & old ideas

(5) mental isolation, a second shock phase - desire for a deeper range of experiences & a wider sphere of communication

(6) adaptation - efficient operation at all levels of communication used in the host culture.

Such a list is simplistic, of course, and you would need to read the whole paper to put those points in perspective, but I suspect that Bali expatriates probably experience the same phased adjustment that people do in other kinds of cross-cultural situations.

And then there is the question of mixed marriages and the raising of bicultural children.... How long do you want this thread to be Bert?

 

[Bert Vierstra]

So people like balibounder are stuck in phase 3 somewhere and fail to adapt...

So disillusion / dissapointment in Bali, as an expat, is actually a lack of flexibility ?

 

[Bert Vierstra]

BTW Welcome Mike, hope you stay...

 

[mikeR]

Re: RE: Crossing the Line of Good and Evil

So people like balibounder are stuck in phase 3 somewhere and fail to adapt...

So desillusion / dissapointment in Bali, as an expat, is actually a lack of flexibility ?

Absolutely. If you look at the expatriate literature a lot of the studies talk about the early return of expats who don't make it beyond Phase 3. Large companies spend a lot of money trying to devise ways to keep staff who they have trained and sent out at great expense and who lose it at the "overload" phase. That's pretty well what Gullick looked at in his paper - "Expatriate British Executives and Culture Shock", Studies in Third World Societies, 1990, 42, Feb, 173-206

Thanks for the welcome. I'll try to post more than 3 times over the next year!

 

[Bert Vierstra]

Shoudln't the be a phase before the others as welll?

(0) Building expectations while on holiday and / or at home?

 

[mikeR]

Too right!

How many expats started their expat lives by visiting as tourists/holiday makers at phase 0?

This is the "beautiful, peace-loving Balinese" or "such gentle, spiritual people" phase. Maybe we could call it the "BTF Phase".

Remember Phil and Rhonda?

 

[Bert Vierstra]

Re: RE: Crossing the Line of Good and Evil

Remember Phil and Rhonda?

No, I have seen their names coming by now and then, but I don't read other forums so much...

For me this string, I hope, should lead to something for the dissapointed, like balibounder, to get into a new "phase"...

 

[Jimbo]

Been through all those phases. My last phase will be retirement, death and burial in my adopted homeland. Just not quite sure where yet.

 

[Jimbo]

Whoops. I am definately not sure "when" for the death and burial bit I mean.

 

[Roy]

Jimbo! Great new pic! Now you are truly adopted as "dad of the forum" and I hope you don't mind. I'm serious! Always great wisdom from you!

 

[Tommy]

I agree. Really nice picture Jimbo! :idea:

 

[drbruce]

I agree Jimbo, nice photo. Actually, I've just been thinking about the retirement, death and burial phase myself. I'm not quite sure what that means (other, perhaps, than that I'm ready for a vacation), but I know the phase.

 

[Jimbo]

Found the picture by accident cleaning up a hard disk. Do not blow it up as you might see where I have been touching up my hair.

Dad of thr forum? Nah I am only eighteen trapped in this 60 year old body

 

[Sparky]

Hi all,

Roy i find it so crazey about those adverts etc advertising skin whiteners or lighteners. I mean while some people are trying to lighten their skin the rest are lying on a beach doing untold damage to their skin to try and
obtain what some Indonesians are trying to be rid of. Confusing to say the least.! :? :?

Like you Roy i know which colour and type of skin i prefer.

It really is a funny old world we live in and hard to make sense of a lot of things at times.

As for Bali being very quiet at the moment, it must be great for any visitors who are there at this time as they will find great deals and their money will go a long way. As you stated Roy the island is just as beautiful and the people just as welcoming and warm. Its just a shame about the poor Balinese trying to scratch out a living day in day out.

I just hate it though when i see the numbers are down to 20 % and less because of the actions of the ****** terrorists. It makes it look like they are winning when people stay away from Bali. UUUUUURRRRGGHH makes me so mad and angry :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: I wish i was some kind of Robbo Cop and could go around exterminating them all.


They certainly wont influence me in my choice of holiday as that makes me feel like they are winning the battle.

Rgds Spark

 

[bolli]

mmm. ..........................well frankly my dears, I find statements saying,
" I know which skin colour I prefer" just as distasteful as . . .. . . . . . . .

 

[jorzbali]

Now, what "does it take", not to get swamped by the obvious present less praisable parts of Bali, and enjoy a life here?, what "does it take" to not wanting to post things like Balibounder 1 and others have posted?
-

Well for me it takes a little bit of patience, a broader view on life, leaving some western values behind and keep a smile on my face no matter what happens. :lol:

I have had some difficulties with Balinese and Indonesian people in the past (when I was in Bali on holiday) but when I look back on them almost every single one of them where do to cultural differences and my lack of understanding our willing to understand them the right way. a little bit of self reflection is important to survive here I think.

But I have only been living in Bali for about two months so I am probably still in face one of the six phases described earlier, so maybe In a couple of weeks/months clouds start filling the sky and I will be stuck in phase 3 finding myself in a huge fight with Roy on this forum, ending up telling you all I will never write a single message here again. I beg you all to help me to remember at that time that phase six still lies ahead of me. .

Joris

 

[matsaleh]

... so maybe in a couple of weeks/months clouds start filling the sky and I will be stuck in phase 3 finding myself in a huge fight with Roy on this forum, ending up telling you all I will never write a single message here again. I beg you all to help me to remember at that time that phase six still lies ahead of me. .
Joris

I like you sense of humour, Joris. Never fear, we'll remind you!

 

[Roy]

What a nice quartet of posts! Dr. Bruce and Jimbo, I guess we all get to a point in our lives when we come to greater grips with our mortality. Just today I renewed my life insurance policy and found my wife finally understanding that I am worth far more dead, then alive. No, I'm not serious (about any worries), but the concept of life insurance is intriguing to her. I think I’ll fill her in on the social security benefits at a later date. No use overloading the boat!

Sparky, we all share your frustration and anger over the fall out of terrorism in Bali. It has amazed me how calm and resilient the Balinese remain ever since the first bombing in October, 2002. There can never be any silver lining to those dark clouds that came to Bali, but I have noted over the past three years that many Balinese no longer see their economic future in tourism.

It is very quiet on Bali right now, and many are looking forward to a busy Christmas/New Year rush.

 

[Bert Vierstra]

Re: RE: Crossing the Line of Good and Evil

mmm. ..........................well frankly my dears, I find statements saying,
" I know which skin colour I prefer" just as distasteful as . . .. . . . . . . .

Yes go on?