Crackdown on Rogue Bali Police Officers

[Mark Wales]

Londion

Thank you for perpetuating corruption in the Bali Police. Just because you thought that this was a "banana republic" you could drive around without your licence (you wouldn't do this in your own country, I hope) and you tell us your "experience" with getting away with paying a small bribe. I am sorry for being obnoxious but it's people like you who are perpetuating corruption and making life miserable for us expats who have to stay, work and live in Bali.
Please for godsake next time you are in Bali, drive around with your licence. Do not give an opportunity to corrupt police officers to fleece you. By the way, there are also honest police officers in Bali. If you were a morally upright person you would not have paid the bribe but gone to the Police Station or telephoned the Tourist Police and paid the fine.

When I arrived in Bali a month ago, I went to the Police Station and got a Indonesian driving licence. I was stopped a number of times near Kuta and when they saw my Indonesian Licence they never said a word but let me thru.

For everyone who has been speaking on this subject please stop pontificating about corruption. All the stories I have heard on this posting is about people trying to circumnavigate the laws in Bali and when caught crying about the corruption. Please spare us the tears, frankly you guys deserve it.

 

[London]

Well, In the UK it's not illegal to drive without your licence, you get 7 days to produce your licence at a police station.

I was admitting I broke the law in Indonesia, therefore I should pay a fine...........I wasnt crying about it.

So whats wrong with me paying a police officer on the street a few thousand rupiah rather than go all the way to the police station and pay someone else who will probably pocket the money...............or if he's doing things by the book and goes through the correct channels, the money goes to the corrupt government!!!

I'd rather give it to the man on the street who needs it a lot more than the government.

If I could get away with giving the police 'a little something' in the UK, believe me I would!!!

If you honestly think there's no corruption in the West you should think again.............the people who are doing it are just a little bit more practised and discreet.

And if your life in Bali is so miserable as you say, maybe you should leave!!

 

[Mark Wales]

Dear London.

Thanks for your message which seems so succinlty put that I have to search for words to reply to it.
What you are saying is basically that the Indonesian Govt. is corrupt so paying the policemen a bribe is the same thing and that if u could get away with paying a cop in your country u would be most happy. And that there is corruption in the west (?) And further that if my life is so miserable in Bali that I should leave.

01. Basically your argument and reasoning is "what the hell, if I can pay I can get away with it".
02. That the "West" has corruption. Thanks for the revelation. We didn't know this!
03. You comfort me with the thought that if I am miserable in Bali that I should leave.
Probably u have not actually read what I have said. If u read it carefully u would observe that what I said is that "its people like u who perpetuate corruption that results in making life miserable for us". Life otherwise in Bali is heaven, its people like u who create a mess whenever they arrive here. They think, "what the hell pay a few rupiah and beep the rest".
Frankly we don't need ur kind here. You are what we call in India "Bhangees". Ask your Indian friends (if you have any)and you will find out what this means. ( Nar Ghat ka nar Dhobi ka- belonging neither to the ghat nor the dhobi).

 

[Mark Wales]

Dear Hawaiian,

have u got your driving licence or are you phoning the tourist police to save your good self whenever you are caught? For godsakes, please get a driving licence and save us the bravado.

 

[Roy]

In just shy of eight years on Bali I have never been “shaken down” by a policeman on Bali...EVER. Eri was once, some years ago, being pulled over for driving a “tamu” (me) without the proper tourist sticker on our windshield. Once explained, off we went and not one additional rupiah was to be found in his pocket.

Does this mean that both Polda and Intel are free of corruption? NO.

Corruption in police forces all over the world is based on economic reality. By and large, they are underpaid, under-trained, and expected to lay down their life to protect the citizens they are charged to protect. Yet, while doing all that, they often find their own family underprivileged.

Police corruption is a fact of life in all governments, and the US is no exception.

This “crackdown” will not work. What is far more needed here is not the stick, but rather, the carrot.

In Bali, and Indonesia at large, the most effective in place infrastructure to combat terrorism and drug criminals is its police force, Polda and Intel. To an equal degree, when fighting terrorism, (being of national security interest), the TNI, or military is also vital.

Without reasonable, life sustaining and life growing wages paid to these men and women who are charged to enforce the laws, or protect the sovereignty of the republic, what else can one expect than corruption?

Knocking the Balinese police is real pet peeve of mine. I’m not denying that corruption among the police isn’t a fact here, but I get really pissed off when folks who don’t live here disparage the Bali police, when in their own home country, the same shit is going on.

Hell, if I was to fly back to the US right now, rent a car and drive into the deep South to visit some old friends, I could count on being pulled over by some fat bellied sheriff, chewing tobacco, and uttering words I doubt I can now remember. The choice (for this imagined infringement of the traffic law) would be mine...pay the fine now...US $100.00, or spend the night in jail and see the judge in the morning.

Police corruption in Bali? It is child’s play compared to what goes on in other parts of the world, including the US.

 

[Mark Wales]

Thanks Roy,

You said it for expats of Bali. I was beginning to wonder whether there was some expat listening to my argument.

thanks man, you said what I have been desperately trying to say.

 

[Roy]

Thanks for your comment Mark, but I can take this many miles further...like under the Home Security bill that the US now operates under, which is in complete disregard to America’s most valued principles, as spelled out in the US Constitution.

You know what? I’ll say this here, and in public, but the real fact of my life right now is this...in my village and banjar, in my regency of Gianyar, my province of Bali and within Indonesia, I feel a billion times more free, more able to be myself, express myself, and most importantly, raise our family without fear than I could ever imagine if I was back in the USA.

The fact is...I don’t recognize my country anymore.

 

[London]

Mark,

I really dont know where you're coming from. What is your point and how are people like me making your life a misery??

From what I can gather you are newly arrived in Bali. Over the past 10 years, I've probably spent a year in total in Bali, so I probably know a little more as to the way of things in Bali. Please dont take that as a condescending remark, it's not meant as such.

Corruption with the police is a fact of life there...........if you get caught doing breaking the law expect a fine!!!

I'm paying my fine at the roadside as opposed to down the police station. Whats wrong with that??

Maybe you misunderstood my original posting..........I'm not complaining about being stopped by the police or the corruption.

I was in the wrong and I paid.........I didnt get away with anything!!

 

[swisshawaiian]

Hey Mark,

what is your problem? I can sense a lot of aggression in your posts towards me and poster "London".

Have u finally got your licence? How long have you broken the law in Bali by driving without a licence? What would have happened if you have an accident? Would you have driven without a licence in your own country? I suppose you think this is some sort of banana republic and you can get away just because of where you come from?

No, I still haven't got my license. My plan was to get an Indonesian License when I got to Bali as soon as I get my Business Visa, which I now have. But when I applied for one, I was told that I need a KITAS for that! I don't understand, because I have talked to expats who have only a business visa and they managed to get an Indonesian License. Anyone know more about this?

It very nice of you to highlight the corruption in the Police Force in Bali by using words as Rogues, but the reason why they stopped you was because they probably knew that you did not have a licence.

I didn't choose the word Rogue, I took it from the headline of "The Bali Times". Why do you say that the reason they stopped me was because they knew I didn't have a license??? Don't be so naive, they simply stopped me because I was a bule. They clearly "filtered" me out from the traffic, it was quite obvious.

Corruption aside, you were wrong. And if you are so morally upright why did you not go to the Police Station and volunteer to pay the fine. I am sure you are happy to get away with it.

If you read my very first post starting this thread more carefully, you'd see that I did mention TWICE that I admit that I was wrong and that I realized that I could have been legally fined. It felt good NOT because I got away with it (ok, maybe just a little 8)), but because the hotline system worked, thereby hopefully slowly changing the corrupt police officer's behaviour of extorting money and/or pocketing bribes. I wouldn't have had a problem paying the fine, that's not the point and never was. I even told the officer that I'd pay at the court in Denpasar, but he wasn't happy with that and tried to make me pay right there by telling me that he was going to keep my car registration documents unless I paid the fine to him. That's why it felt good that I could "win" the case against him using this new hotline number, not because I could get away with it. I didn't even expect to get away with paying no fine, that's not why I called the hotline, but com'on, you're saying I should go to the police station and pay even though I wasn't given a fine? Are you for real Mark?

For everyone who has been speaking on this subject please stop pontificating about corruption. All the stories I have heard on this posting is about people trying to circumnavigate the laws in Bali and when caught crying about the corruption. Please spare us the tears, frankly you guys deserve it.

It's not the money/fine that bothers me, it's the corrupt system, and even more so when expats and tourists get stopped for no reason at all (which probably happens many times a day), SO DON'T TELL US THAT EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD WHO POSTED ABOUT THIS TOPIC DESERVES TO GET RIPPED OFF BY THE POLICE (basically that's how I interpret your above quote).

 

[London]

Re: RE: Crackdown on Rogue Bali Police Officers

"its people like u who perpetuate corruption that results in making life miserable for us". Life otherwise in Bali is heaven, its people like u who create a mess whenever they arrive here. They think, "what the hell pay a few rupiah and beep the rest".
Frankly we don't need ur kind here. You are what we call in India "Bhangees". Ask your Indian friends (if you have any)and you will find out what this means. ( Nar Ghat ka nar Dhobi ka- belonging neither to the ghat nor the dhobi).

What the hell are you going on about???

You might not need my kind in Bali, but I'm sure a lot of local people would disagree with you.

It's people like me who spend a month or two in Bali a year who put food into the mouths of the losmen owners, drink sellers, shopkeepers, bike renters, restaurant workers, police and the little kids selling fruit and leather bangles on the streets.

I suppose now you're going to go on about how I shouldnt perpetuate the 'begging' by the little kids?

 

[tintin]

Hi Swiss,

No, I still haven't got my license. My plan was to get an Indonesian License when I got to Bali as soon as I get my Business Visa, which I now have. But when I applied for one, I was told that I need a KITAS for that! I don't understand, because I have talked to expats who have only a business visa and they managed to get an Indonesian License. Anyone know more about this?

The info you got when you applied is correct: a business visa does not allow you to have an Indonesian driver license, but a KITAS does. With any type of visa one can get a temporary driver license, which I beleive is valid one month, but totally useless as far as I am concerned. An int'l license, valid one year (and longer, if you are a good, or even not so good, forger), will do the trick for a few bucks (US$10, for example). As for some expats having "managed" a SIM on a business visa sounds to me like lots of b.s.: a business visa does not give you the right to work in Indonesia, and therefore does not entitle you to get a SIM.

Regarding corruption among the Balinese police, as many forumites have already mentioned in this string, it does exist, especially around Kuta. There is a undeniable fact that Indonesia ranks near the top of the world countries in corruption, so why should its police be exempted? But if you travel in Central or So. America, you are in for a surprise...Corupsi (I love the word) exists in different forms, in all the countries, and at many different levels of sophistication.

And as for me, as I wrote previously, I have been driving my motorcycle in Bali since 1987, and only been stopped 3 times. When I finally started working in Bali, in 1990, I was driving (and still drive) an average of some 1,800 - 2,000 kms/month, so I am not exactly a home-body. I had to conclude, some time ago, that all the talk about "police harassment" is somehat exagerated. Finally, there has been several instances when I had to interact with the Ubud police (but not for any personal criminal reasons) and I can honestly say that it was never a bad experience, only , maybe, a waste of my time (the only bad experience is that they tend to move sloooowly).

 

[drbruce]

I have to join Roy and Mark on this one. I found the original post somewhat smug and the titled really was quite irritating. What does the word "rogue" mean anyway?

Sure there is a massive amount of corruption in Indonesian society; there's a massive amount in US society as well. It's quite easy to bribe a judge in a traffic court case if you know what you're doing. I grew up in Chicago - our fine mayor stole an election once for JFK. Now that's corruption.

The fact that corruption exists around the world, however, doesn't make it right in anyplace nor does it excuse it.

I make a point of not giving in to requests for money that is unwarranted. I've been stopped three times in 17 years and like Daniel I do a lot of driving. So if the police are ferreting out foreigners, I must be really lucky. In fact, generally when I come across a rahasia and I start to pull over, I'm waved on when the police see that I'm a foreigner.

If I was visiting someone's country, I wouldn't be driving if I didn't have a license. It just seems incredibly rude to pop in somewhere and decided that you'll break the law because it's convenient of you to do so.

Generally I've found that I've been treated respectfully by most people I've met here (well immigration has been a different story, but that's for somewhere else). In fact, just a week ago, I had a Balinese police officer bring my 15 year old daughter home with her mother's motorbike because she doesn't have a license. She borrowed it from mom (who has different ideas about bike use than I do) to make a run to a shop down the road. When she was pulled over by the police, she told them that she was from Singaraja. They brought her in without a find - just a warning not to do it again - as a courtesy to our family because we were from the same island.

I don't hang around the tourist ghettoes so maybe the situation is somewhat different there, but the generalizations that several of you seem to be making are uncalled for, in my opinion.

 

[Mark Wales]

drbruce wrote

I don't hang around the tourist ghettoes so maybe the situation is somewhat different there, but the generalizations that several of you seem to be making are uncalled for, in my opinion.

I couldn't help agree with you more.
Incidently I have a sister who has lived in Bali since 1978. She and her husband also have Indonesian Passports even though both are Indians. She read the post on "rogue police" and was quite upset that cheap backpackers who really don't spend any dollars and who are here just for the ride expect to be treated differently when pulled over by a cop. Quite a few, according to her, don't have proper papers and invariably get involved in unsuitable activities. She probably knows this because of the fact that her husband has been heading a hotel here and is part of various delegations that have visited Oz and other countries.

Such tourists rarely have enough money for board and lodging let alone contribute to the island's economy. So when I hear the gentlemen on this Post speaking about how much they spend when they arrive here - spare us the bragging and put your money where your mouth is.

 

[London]

Re: RE: Crackdown on Rogue Bali Police Officers

drbruce wrote

I don't hang around the tourist ghettoes so maybe the situation is somewhat different there, but the generalizations that several of you seem to be making are uncalled for, in my opinion.

Such tourists rarely have enough money for board and lodging let alone contribute to the island's economy. So when I hear the gentlemen on this Post speaking about how much they spend when they arrive here - spare us the bragging and put your money where your mouth is.

Well, I dont know who's generalising the most here!!!

I make a point of going to Bali evey year with NOT enough money, being the cheap backpacker that I am.

Mark, my friend you have just proven to myself you're not all there.

Adhajal gagari chalakat jaay!!!

 

[Mark Wales]

London wrote

Mark, my friend you have just proven to myself you're not all there.

Infact am very much here and you are where?
Why be so secretive about your lcoation when you are so
vocal about corrupt police officers. If you had any iota of decency
you would stand up and be counted like a lot of us here on the forum and not hide behind vague locations.
To refresh your memory - The thread of conversation was people like u keeping corruption alive and well in Bali.

Methinks you will get caught one day by an officer who will decide to make an example of you. Such cases invariably happen. And I do hope it happens sooner then later.

 

[London]

Secretive..........Moi???

I think the name says it all (London)............and as I suspected all along you dont actually READ what other people post, or you might actually understand what is occuring here.

I have said I'm in the UK!! NO SECRET!!

Drink some camomille tea and calm down............I sense a lot of anger.

And when I do get caught by the officer who decides to make an example of me, I'll make sure you'll be the first to know how much I pay him off.

Have a good evening, and I truly wish I was there in Bali with you enjoying good conversation and a Bintang.

 

[swisshawaiian]

I found the original post somewhat smug and the titled really was quite irritating. What does the word "rogue" mean anyway?

drbruce, I repeat: "I just copied the title "Crackdown on Rogue Bali Police Officers" from the title of the article of "The Bali Times".

I tried to look up a good definition of the word rogue. This is what I found:

In general, a rogue is someone who strays from the accepted path, is mischievous, or is a cheat.

After mostly positive feedback about my original post, there now seems to be some hostility between some forum members. Too bad, all I wanted is to share my experience and help other forum members.

 

[London]

Re: RE: Crackdown on Rogue Bali Police Officers

Too bad, all I wanted is to share my experience and help other forum members.

Swisshawaiian, I wouldnt worry too much about it............some people cant be helped :roll:

 

[drbruce]

Swisshawaiian,

First, I wouldn't just copy down anything that I saw anywhere unless I agreed with it. Secondly, the connotation of rogue is somewhat more intense than what you have listed. Third, as I have some friends who are Balinese police officers, I find it offensive.
Perhaps, it's enough said on the issue - at least for me.

 

[Roy]

I would just like to echo some of the sentiments expressed by Dr. Bruce, and Mark, and they very likely would be shared by most expats who have been here for a long time. Over this time, I think most of us have come to understand that while nothing is perfect over here, not much is totally out of balance either.

At the same time, I think we can understand how the incidental traveler to Bali, who unfortunately was subjected to police corruption, could easily come to the conclusion that the police on Bali are in general, corrupt. Obviously we can also immediately comprehend the negative impact on tourism this stereotyping can, and apparently, does have.

As Dr. Bruce made clear, it’s one thing to tell a story of personal involvement with police corruption, but it is entirely a horse of a different color to produce that story within a context that such events are commonplace, or normal. As Bert would say...”that’s it” and it is...for me anyway.