it's so good to hear your views as they are more positive but with caution. thank you again. i'm now in a quandary what to do! but have a bit of time to ponder ....
banjar 'building' fees
- Thread starter meremortal
- Start date
You gotta love a club where the members think someone of 80 was snatched unexpectedly out of this life.
I think many people leave behind a terrible life and find one again where they've fled to - I suspect they may have brought it with them or at least the capability to create one.
I say to anyone wishing to have a good experience of Bali to try and find some locals to support you that you can give your trust to even if you are paying them for theirs. The higher up the food chain they are and with deep (Balinese) religious beliefs - actually a no-brainer here, a good, respected member of the local society, family with children and a good stable job and you will have few problems. Get everything in writing, remember a verbal agreement isn't worth the paper it's written on. Be friendly and humble in your needs and respect their beliefs and customs - that doesn't mean you should dress like them or follow their holidays or ceremonies (unless you like that stuff) but just have some understanding for this world. Story: friend called me up livid with anger as the man I'd recommended to him was taking a day other than the agreed weekend off without begging my friends permission. I had to point out to my friend that he was possibly the only person on the island that didn't realize it was a full moon that day and that ALL the locals take off for that day and many more. Expats seem to make the mistake thinking they can act and regulate life here with contracts and witnesses and judicial b.s. just like can where they come from - it just aint so, sorry.
Most of the time it's ignorance, lack of general culture and thinking that they found paradise....
And that's before the girlie thing jumps in....
Markit I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Even though we don’t live there we have some amazing Bali friends who we value greatly. There are those who visit or live in Bali who only scratch the surface of the Balinese people and their culture as they, knowingly or from sheer ignorance, perceive themselves as above or superior to the ‘natives’. Additionally Markit lives in an area I call ‘the real Bali’, wrong I know but it’s just my feeling for the area. It’s changing of course as the western influences infiltrate the area to the betterment, in it a lot of cases to the locals. We all make mistakes like the time I was at a family ceremony and when I received the grain of rice I ate it instead of putting it on my forehead. My ignorance of the culture but they all laughed and were not offended. We’ve been to weddings, funerals blessings including our villa. We have a spirit, a beautiful woman who comes from the ravine that runs beside our villa. She been seen by our staff and an Australian woman who lives nearby. It’s all about Bali and people. We love them their culture and customs.
Well said Markit.
Even though we don’t live there we have some amazing Bali friends who we value greatly. There are those who visit or live in Bali who only scratch the surface of the Balinese people and their culture as they, knowingly or from sheer ignorance, perceive themselves as above or superior to the ‘natives’. Additionally Markit lives in an area I call ‘the real Bali’, wrong I know but it’s just my feeling for the area. It’s changing of course as the western influences infiltrate the area to the betterment, in it a lot of cases to the locals. We all make mistakes like the time I was at a family ceremony and when I received the grain of rice I ate it instead of putting it on my forehead. My ignorance of the culture but they all laughed and were not offended. We’ve been to weddings, funerals blessings including our villa. We have a spirit, a beautiful woman who comes from the ravine that runs beside our villa. She been seen by our staff and an Australian woman who lives nearby. It’s all about Bali and people. We love them their culture and customs.
Well said Markit.
It's interesting that people are ignoring the subject matter of the person talking about how the local Banjar is trying to bleed the foreigner for money! As they said, once they pay for so called access there will be something in the future the Banjar will want more money for! If a person is developing a piece of land, building a house, hiring construction crews, shopping locally, probably hiring many locals for various things. Isn't that enough? I've never understood how someone can sell land without access? What if a person just wants to develop a piece of land how they want as long as it's not hurting the water flow or building a bridge, to get to their home. Why can't they just be left in peace? Why should a person be forced to pay the local community money? If they want to participate in the local religious ceremonies, then they can join the Banjar and pay fees, but what if they don't? It seems to live here there is a tax on just living here, not only to the government but to the local community also.
It's nice some have found friends here, but that has nothing to do with the original subject!
It's nice some have found friends here, but that has nothing to do with the original subject!
Some examples from South, one from Ubud.
I have no issue in paying some money for Banjar. If it was transparent process. I actually really like the culture here and the idea of Banjar. I’m happy to help pay for ceremonies and we always use pecalang if we have a party (usually kid’s birthday) at home. Do cleaning with community in our gang…but they would still have taken us for extra money if they could get away with it.
None of my examples has been bule being arrogant- all the above are banjar being greedy. Everybody above has done their best to do things in the right way. These are decent people.
What winds me up the most is that these guys can extort money and then smile at you the next day.
With our local banjar taking 500 instead of 100 - one of guys that comes to collect the monthly money sat in my house and complained about one of my neighbours being rude and not speaking to him. Getting maid to come out with the donation. It’s because you knowingly ripped him off then refused to give back the money!
I can give you another example of an older lady we met. Had lived next to her Balinese ‘family’ for many years; birthdays, weddings always invited. Very close. Had a house built -owned by one of the ’family’ through the nominee system. That generation of family started dying off and son of one of her ‘family’ decided one day he would take her house. That was that.
I don’t doubt what you are saying and I sympathise with the lady who lost her home through the nomine system. Im sure that is not an isolated instance . There are better and more secure ways of ‘owning‘ a home in Bali which others will be more familiar with. personally we simply leased our land for 25 years with a 10 year option. Paid the rent upfront, bui the house no problems. Our daughter will have to negotiate the terms of the option and at the expiration of that term the villa will be handed back to the Balinese landowners or their heirs. Finish, full stop. That was the deal we made. Australians particularly have a hard time understanding the fact we just give the house back as our culture is so driven by home ownership. I fear there are going to be many more incidents of sons or daughters claiming the houses after the initial nomine dies. They simply don’t understand that as much as you twist and turn only Balinese can own land in Bali.
When I arrived here, I already had more than my share of Asian girls.
Very little interest in any of the locals now. In fact the only ones that I tried (without success) to chat up here were Japanese and Koreans.
That's another level.... Bit like comparing economy and first class !
Oops, off topic again
Yes I was told the Balinese own the land, but you own the house and have the right to sell it or pass it on to relatives. It's up to you what option you take!
I 've never heard of a council tax! And inheritance, sales, Vat, etc. those have nothing to do with having a home here except for sales tax if you sell the house. You don't own the land unless you have an Indonesian wife, then She owns the land! And as you say, if you build a home in the States, maybe you have your own well or spring so don't owe anyone more $ for water. As for the road, again, that depends on where you live. Maybe you own your own road. Taxes are understood for all, such as property tax, that goes to the local government. And income tax for the Feds. It all depends on how and where you live. Pereonally I don't know of any one sitting around singing Kumbaya and trading vegan recipes. Maybe the only people you sit around with sing drunken sailor songs, swilling cheap, crappy beer! That's up to each person. It's so nice to hear how much you love your local Banjar!
Wouldn't know my local banjar if they came and kissed me.
Seriously don't understand what the contributors to this post have with their banjar?!
Mine come around once a year and want a million for the upkeep of local churches/ceremonies/fuknows and I give it and they go away happy until next year.
Now that's just plain bragging. Where were shares in Asian girls handed out please? Is there a long line? With no offense the Korean girls are all just clumsy Indonesians - big and sloppy and the Japanese are all morally suspect because so many of them seem to like Japanese men, go figure.