Article About Bali Dogs

BaliLife

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Mar 27, 2007
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Our kids were vaccinated in cananda as part of the childrens set of vaccines, I believe, but will confirm with my wife. It also included the measles, lime disease and polio. Plus we got them hep a and b shots. If only there was a dengue vaccine, my architects daughter just got admitted to hospital here last night :(

Ct
 

mimpimanis

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I got a good look and a photo of the signs on the bypass today. They are closeby the airport turnoff, at the neck, of the penninsula, so looks like they are trying to keep it confined, however there is nobody enforcing it and I will be taking Janji through to kennels in Sanur in a week or two. But at least he will have been vacinated.

 

BaliLife

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oops, sorry just to correct myself.. my wife has just corrected me as she often does - the kids don't have rabies vaccinations.. she said our doctor in canada told her you can't get a rabies vaccine - you can only get a shot after infection :?: funny mimpi, when i read over your post initially, i missed the "my vet" and was thinking that you had obtained a vaccine for your son :oops:

my wife's unsure about the lime disease but says the standard shot included vacs for MMR (measles, mumps, rubella), diphtheria, pertussis, chicken pox, polio, something cockle and tetanus.. plus on top of that we got them the hep shots..

:roll: holy shite, that's a lot of vaccines.. :|

ct
 

mimpimanis

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And I hold no faith in any of them.

Martin has already had measles and whooping cough both of which he has been vaccinated against and both he has had in the first 2 years of life. He has had more obat in his first 2 years than I probally had in my first 20 years. But thankfully with his chest problems we seem on track now and he has been in much better health the last 6 months!
 

BaliLife

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that's good mimpi.. i agree in that i have little faith in the vaccines also (perhaps just some hope) :wink:

ct
 

mimpimanis

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Actually I am curious because when he got measles despite being vaccinated the doctor said it was normal. However in UK I know it is not. Who else has had their child vaccinated here against diseases or childhoold illnesses who has got sick anyway?
 

mimpimanis

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Well Janji finally got his shot today. And has a card and a metal tag for his collar to prove it. We missed our original appointment and then our vet has been too busy for house calls until today as she has been working with Dinas on the vaccination programme.

She tells me there have been five more confirmed cases of rabies in Jimbaran. All in the same household, where one dog started acted strangely, bit its owner, so was put to sleep and then tested positive. The four other dogs were then also put to sleep and also tested positive.

It is still confined to the peninsular and she says I wont be allowed to put Janji in kennels in Sanur as we arent allowed to take dogs off the peninsular. Although there is nobody to check I guess it boils down to what Bali Kennels say and the fact that Janji has now been vaccinated. Otherwise it looks like we wont be going home for new year either.
 

chilli

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I hope this owner got immediate attention, there has only ever been one person who has survived rabbies. A young woman.
 

mimpimanis

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Chilli, I am pretty sure she would have. She is an expat married to an Indonesian.

This is what I have been told by my vet, of course non of this is official or confirmed but she is working with dinas so I imagine knows what is going on.
 

Sumatra

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Balilife,
Don't they put out meat doctored with rabies vaccine, in the Canadian provinces? I've heard that this is a very effective means of control when used on skunks, raccoons, fox, coyote, wild cats and wolves because all wild animals are scavengers. It would probably be a better method to use for the Balinese officials, rather than attempting to track and vet a gazillion street dogs.
Unfortunately, the culling program will have to be stepped-up to curtail any further spread. Pet owners will just have to keep their pups leashed at all times and close to them.
Mimpi,
Just curious, do you know where the vaccines used on your child were batched? My mom (RN for forty years) said depending on where its batched, these vaccines can contain all kinds of nasty additives and sometimes don't contain what they're supposed to.
Tintin,
I did read that H5N1 is grossly under-reported on the islands on a medical news website but I can't recall which one. So, I guess it shouldn't be a surprise when you can't find credible information on something like rabies. I hope H5N1 doesn't become airborne, people will be fondly remembering the care-free days of a rabies epidemic on this day.

Don
 

Roy

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Nov 5, 2002
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Don, I think it’s normal that for all of us at one time, and often several times more than once, we rely on the expertise of another person, and entrust ourselves, and our beloved family to those who we feel best that we can rely on.

I honestly cannot imagine what complete and abject mistrust for everything that is around me must be like…and I don’t want to either.
 

akucintabali

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Being from a rabies free country (Australia) i will be needing to get a rabies for my long indo journey. I'm unsure if i should do my vaccinations in Australia or Bali, for me its the cost factor that has me umming and ahhing. I could never put a price on my health and will always pay whatever I have to but if vaccinations are very cheap in Bali, I am happy to save my pennies and get them done there. Does anyone have any suggestions on the cost of vaccinating in Bali?
 

Roy

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Being from a rabies free country (Australia) i will be needing to get a rabies for my long indo journey.

"Three people have died of rabies in Australia: an unconfirmed case in 1867, and two recent cases in 1987 and 1990."

The following are excerpts I wrote on another forum relating to this issue:

I disagree with the necessity of a rabies vaccination series for a trip to Bali. The WHO only recommends this for those who are traveling to an area where rabies is common…which is not the case in Bali…or for those who will be in regular contact and exposure to animals.

And there is this from professor doctor Daniel, aka, Tintin:

“For humans in a high-risk occupational groups, such as veterinarians or animal handlers, they will be vaccinated pre-exposure with 3 shots. If/when they are bitten by a rabid animals, they will STILL have to get the 2 other shots of the 5-doses series for humans.”

And then…once again on another forum, the Virtual Tourist where I write a lot, I went off on Australia after hearing this:

"The Australian Health Authorities are advising to their citizens that they consult their health authority to see if they need the vaccination, for when they come to Bali, so although it is not yet compulsory it is possibly a wise precaution."

To which, I responded:

Not to knock on the Ozzies too much, but Australia has a long standing policy to over-react to anything that goes on here in Indonesia…not the least of which was the recent upgrading of their travel advisories just prior to the executions of the Bali bombers.

DFAT, (the Australian state department) raised the warning level, despite the fact that both the US and Great Britain did not…and in fact, the US had just lowered the travel warnings to Indonesia citing great improvements in security here in Indonesia! Moreover, DFAT was totally unable to cite ANY intelligence that warranted an increase in their warning level aside from pure speculation! The US, Great Britain and Australia ALL share any available terrorist related intelligence…all the time. So, why did OZ alone think an increase in the warning level was appropriate?

Pardon me, but I take nothing that comes out of Australia as indicative of anything close to the reality “on the ground” here in Indonesia…and this is based on many years of closely observing Australian relations with Indonesia.

That OZ over-reacted to the rabies situation here in Bali is of no surprise to me, or many other observers. Frankly, it’s appalling in my view.

The idea of getting rabies vaccinations prior to a visit to Bali is ludicrous, but again, it doesn’t surprise me a bit that the Australian government would push this idea…as they are always looking for reasons to discourage their citizens from vacationing in Bali, rather they would prefer to encourage them to spend their vacations monies at home in Australia.

In the classic sense and meaning of the word, “vaccination” there is NO such thing as a rabies vaccination for humans. All that can be done as a semi-prevention is to administer the first three of the five shot series which is used to treat rabies in humans prior to exposure and a bite from a rabid animal. But even that is not enough to guarantee the human victim that they will not contract rabies after being bitten by a rabid animal…thus the necessity of administrating the last two shots after being bitten.

The chances, or odds of any visitor getting bitten by a rabid animal in Bali remains extremely minimal, and less than in other parts of the “civilized” world. So, what is the point of going through the first three shots of the five shot program when the odds are so low, AND, if bitten, one can be treated with the full five shot series as treatment after the fact?

There is a very effective rabies vaccination available for dogs, and several of the Bali based “dog NGO’s” as well as the government, have done a good job so far in seeing that the dogs in the affected regency of Bali…namely the Badung Regency either have, or are being vaccinated if not already culled…as many dogs were culled.

Sorry to be so adamant, but as a father of three boys being raised in Bali, I take all of these health issues very seriously, and have in the past as with the SARS scare, and Avian flu. None of us have been “vaccinated” for rabies, and as things presently stand…meaning the small outbreak seeming to be fully contained, none of us will be. Have you, living here in Bali been “vaccinated” for rabies yourself?

A broad brushed and public declaration to readers of this forum that they should be vaccinated for rabies prior to their visit to Bali is irresponsible, reckless, and completely wrong. Anyone with doubts or concerns should consult either the WHO (World Health Organization) or their own doctor and based on their own medical history. And, that’s it!
___________________________________________________________________________

As I say, that's something I wrote somewhere else, but it seems to apply here?

And, ask anyone else from anywhere else than Australia if their government is suggesting to them that they get a rabies "vaccine” prior to their trip to Bali! :p :p :p

If this wasn't so f...ing outrageous, I might even laugh!
 

tintin

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Sep 13, 2005
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I cannot believe that the Australian Government would recommend for its citizens to be vaccinated against rabies prior to coming to Bali. This is preposterous and, yes, totally irresponsible. And to think that, as a result, many people (like Ali, few posts above) are/will seriously considering it, and most likely will undergo the preventive treatment, because of their Government "advice"… :evil:

Roy just recapitulated the situation correctly regarding rabies, and, as our beloved Führer always says, "That's It !" :)

But for the "worrying" type among you guys (and dolls), if I were you, I would be more concerned about potato famine than rabies. Remember the Ireland Potato Famine, when 1 to 1-1/2 millions Irish people perished? So, don't take any chance, do as I do when I travel abroad, always carry couple of pounds of good Idaho potatoes in your luggage. I know kentang are available in Bali, but why take a chance? Now, this is what the Australian Government should recommend to its citizens. :p

PS. Oral Rabies Vaccine (ORV) to control rabies in the wild is used, among other places, in the Eastern part of the US, but it would not be a good alternative in the present urgent situation in Bali.
 

Roy

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And just as a quick follow up, Ali, I don’t know anyone…local or expat, who lives here who has gotten this rabies “vaccine.”
 

mimpimanis

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As to be expected, the vets working with Dinas on the vaccination programme have all had it, including my vet. And one of them is undergoing a follow up course having been bitten by a dog this week.

But I agree other than them I doubt there are many who have had it or plan to.
 

Roy

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And that follows exactly what the WHO suggests, as previously stated...

"The WHO only recommends this for those who are traveling to an area where rabies is common…which is not the case in Bali…or for those who will be in regular contact and exposure to animals.
 

ronb

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Aug 14, 2007
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tintin said:
I cannot believe that the Australian Government would recommend for its citizens to be vaccinated against rabies prior to coming to Bali.

They DO NOT recommend vaccinations - get your facts correct!

Reports like this
http://www.antara.co.id/en/arc/2008/12/17/bali-authorities-warned-not-to-trivialize-rabies-epidemic/
are not from goverment - in this case a Garuda official.

The Australian Government advice says:
The World Health Organization (WHO) has confirmed human deaths from avian influenza in Indonesia, including Bali. The Indonesian Government has declared that rabies is present in Bali. See the Health Issues section below for advice to Australians travelling to or resident in Indonesia.

and under health issues, they say
Other diseases (including HIV/AIDS, polio and rabies) are a risk for travellers. The Indonesian Government has declared that rabies is present in Bali. A small number of people with rabies like symptoms have died recently after being bitten by dogs. Visitors to Bali are strongly advised to avoid direct contact with dogs, cats, monkeys and other animals. If bitten or scratched they should seek immediate medical attention.

Also in Roy's long posting he said
DFAT, (the Australian state department) raised the warning level, despite the fact that both the US and Great Britain did not
This is not correct. They raised the warning level to the current level - reconsider your need to travel - after the 2002 bombing and have not changed it since. They do revise the text to mention things like execution of Bali Bombers - but they have not raised the level. (There is only one level higher which is - do not travel.)

Of course, I think it should be lowered one step ( to high degree of caution), or more probably two steps (to exercise caution) - and so I can see that Roy's tirade against the Aust govt has some substance.
 

Roy

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Actually Ron, you are correct in that the level of the DFAT warning was not increased…but rather it was updated. Of course this updating created the negative effect, but I stand corrected. A better phrase would have been:

“The Australian government has issued an updated travel warning for Bali, warning of reprisal attacks once the executions of the Bali bombers take place.”

Neither GB or the US issued any updates to their current advisories regarding travel to Indonesia during this time. Cheers!
 

Sumatra

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Roy,
I'm sorry that your long tenure on Bali has caused you to lose some perspective on what goes on in the real world, maybe this will resharpen your pencil.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...cal-experimentation-in-the-united-states.aspx
This is just a woefully incomplete outline of man's inhumanity to man, medically speaking.
This gruesome outline only covers the United States, who knows what's occurring in other nations, where guidelines concerning medical experimentation are lax or, non-existent.
Do you know Master Po? After all, we here on Balipod are but grasshoppers under your tutelage, who've not yet snatched the pebble from your hand.

Don