Are the Gods Color-blind?

[tintin]

A very serious theological question, which had baffled theologians and other religious leaders for millennia, has finally gotten a definite answer: the Gods are NOT color-blind. Praise the Lord(s) and pass the ammun ^H^H^H^H the collection plates!

The latest Bali Update Edition 619 - 21 July 2008, published by Jack Daniels reports, quoting the very serious Bisnis Bali, that there is a shortage of brown, red, and black dogs in Bali. Why? Because these are the colors of the dogs the Balinese Gods demand to be sacrificed. No other color will do… And due to a heavy schedule of Balinese sacrificial ceremonies or mecaru over the coming few months, the lives of certain color dogs are in extreme jeopardy

According to a "dog dealer" interviewed by Bisnis Bali - the brown, red or black dogs are currently fetching a price of between Rp. 250,000 (US$27) to Rp. 300,000 (US$32.50).

However, some apostate owners of dogs of the "right" colors have tried to circumvent the will of the Gods by taking their mutts to dog grooming parlors and have them dyed in other less God-favored colors!

Not to revive one of my old statements regarding what I think of religions, I ask you in all seriousness: is there hope for a rational humanity?

Furthermore, it leads me to ask the following questions, which I hope will not start yet another religious war, as there has been too many, up to now:

1) Why would the Gods favor particular dog colors over others? I know such a question takes us back to "square one," but we still have Eternity to get the right answer.

2) Are the Gods so stupid as to be fooled by some chemicals used by some heretics to change the color of the sacrificial victims?

3) Or are the Gods visually-impaired, so they don't see "skin-deep?"

Your wisdom is respectfully requested.

 

[Bert Vierstra]

oh tintin,

Its not the Gods, its us mortals trying to please them....

Will ask Dewi to hide our black dog however... Unless prices go over 1jt ....

 

[BaliLife]

I ask you in all seriousness: is there hope for a rational humanity?[/queen]

Very very little :-(

I'd like to sacrafice a few of the ones rounding up and killing these dogs - I'd sacrafice them, and then wipe my arse with their corpses.

Ct

 

[milan]

My wisdom says that whatever it takes, as long as it's in the name of Gods that justifies the colourings which overules the deceit. :? Don't know what I'm talking about but that's how I translate it.

 

[Ipanema]

I ask you in all seriousness: is there hope for a rational humanity?[/queen]

Very very little :-(

I'd like to sacrafice a few of the ones rounding up and killing these dogs - I'd sacrafice them, and then wipe my arse with their corpses.

Ct

I totally agree with your BaliLife :twisted:

 

[chilli]

Balilife, agreed .

Hi Milan, welcome back

 

[SG]

I ask you in all seriousness: is there hope for a rational humanity?[/queen]

Very very little :-(

I'd like to sacrafice a few of the ones rounding up and killing these dogs - I'd sacrafice them, and then wipe my arse with their corpses.

Ct

I can't help feeling the same way..what is wrong with these people? Is child sacrifice next? A few animal welfare laws..y'know, the sort the sort most countries have on the books, would be a help. Seriously, if Indonesia wants to move from the 'emerging' to 'emerged' list at any time in the foreseeable future then little things like this need to be taken care of.

 

[tintin]

This "dog shortage" in Bali brought to mind a recent story that went totally unreported in the media. As most of you are PC users, your experience with the machine has made you familiar with one sorry aspect of the Microsoft operating systems: your computer crashes (most of the time) for no apparent reason. Of course, this inelegant behavior has not escaped the attention of the people in Redmond, and for years their engineers have burned lots of midnight oil trying to remedy the problem. So far, they have met with only partial success.

Since I have a "plant" who is member of the Board of Directors at Microsoft, I was recently made aware of the following happening in their last Board meeting, chaired by the Chairman of the Board himself, William Henry Gates III. The subject of the special meeting was this very embarrassing and frustrating problem of PC crashes, and Bill, having run out of patience, was at his wits' end. Therefore, he suggested a public sacrifice of twelve dogs, five black, four brown, and three red, which would take place at the Company Quadrangle, at Redmond, WA, on July 12, 2008, a very propitious day for such sacrifice, he assured the Board members. Bill's suggestion was first received with polite chuckles, and CEO Steve Ballmer, always a joker, suggested that it would be more correct to substitute five white dogs for the black ones, claiming that black dogs were not appropriate for software problems. Upon which, the whole assembly exploded in laughter. :lol: :lol: :lol:

In the meantime, Chief Software Architect Ray Ozzie quietly asked to be excused to go to the men's room, but instead went to his office and called the Emergency room at the local hospital. The Board of Directors was still rolling on the floor in uncontrolled hilarity, having completely pissed themselves, when three men in white coats came into the room and removed Mr. Gates, taking him for a 2-day observation at the psychiatric division of the Redmond Evergreen Hospital Medical Center.

Following his 2-day stay at the hospital, William Henry Gates III chose to resign rather than exposing himself, for the rest of his life, to ridicule and being the butt of endless sacrificial dog jokes. The Board, having concluded together with Mr. Gates that his "dog solution" had been totally irrational, accepted his resignation "with regrets." :cry:

PS. When I tried to verify this story with Microsoft, I was simply told by a spokesman, "no comment."

 

[Sergio]

I always find it interesting where people draw the lines on which animals are "ok" to KILL and which ones are not. Whether it be to feast on their flesh or cloth ourself with their beautiful skins. Is it cuteness or personality? Clubbing a seal is wrong but very few care if we kill a fish. So while I both enjoy eating meet and love dogs, I ask where is the line, and why? What make a dogs life worth more than that of a fish, chicken, pig or cow? Honestly, I don't know.

To be honest, while I enjoy eating meat, I can't help but feel that killing any animal for "unnecessary" reasons (i.e. personal wants, not needs: food, cloths, etc...) is wrong. Now of course culture and religion come largely into play here. However, I could even go as far as to accept religious sacrifice (if I believed). That said, it would take a lot for me to believe it is the will of a Deity to do this. The Bible is of course full of sacrifices and offerings to God. So before we judge the Balinese, are you ready to throw out the Old Testament and play God?

It's not the Balinese that are on trial here, it's their religion... and your own (if any).

 

[bookdemon]

I just heard that China has removed DOG from Restaurant menus in an effort to put on a good face for the Olympics.

As for the Balinese and sacrificing dogs, I don't agree with it at all but its just the way they've done things throughout their history. All cultures have their little customs that aren't going to sit well with a lot of people. Animal rights in Asia have always been pretty non-existent which is unfortunate but there's not much that can be done about that.

Now, I wonder what color virgin I will need to sacrifice for a little good weather here in the Pacific Northwest.

Richard

 

[Roy]

“A few animal welfare laws..y'know, the sort the sort most countries have on the books, would be a help. Seriously, if Indonesia wants to move from the 'emerging' to 'emerged' list at any time in the foreseeable future then little things like this need to be taken care of.”

Not intending to pick on your post in particular Simon, I only chose it because it best illustrates a somewhat understandable Western based fallacy regarding what acceptable roles or influence the West should have on other cultures.

Only in those cultures where dogs are kept as pets is this facet of Balinese culture, and also the eating of dog meat, found to be so repulsive. IMHO, suggesting that this should be changed (by laws), because of how we may view dogs is inappropriate. What is appropriate would be to see this change because of changing Balinese attitudes.

Anyone who has been living on Bali for a long time will most likely agree that the Balinese attitude towards dogs is slowly becoming more in line with Western attitudes. This change is coming about for two reasons, one being an increase in the number of dog shelters and NGO’s geared toward education and care of dogs, and also an increase of expats who keep dogs as pets. More and more Balinese treat their dogs as pets each year, including spending money on veterinarians and proper food.

It may also be worth mentioning that in many Western cultures where animal welfare laws do exist, those laws are rather recent, and moreover, in some of those countries, dog meat was once a part of their diets.

 

[SG]

“A few animal welfare laws..y'know, the sort the sort most countries have on the books, would be a help. Seriously, if Indonesia wants to move from the 'emerging' to 'emerged' list at any time in the foreseeable future then little things like this need to be taken care of.”

Not intending to pick on your post in particular Simon, I only chose it because it best illustrates a somewhat understandable Western based fallacy regarding what acceptable roles or influence the West should have on other cultures.

Only in those cultures where dogs are kept as pets is this facet of Balinese culture, and also the eating of dog meat, found to be so repulsive. IMHO, suggesting that this should be changed (by laws), because of how we may view dogs is inappropriate. What is appropriate would be to see this change because of changing Balinese attitudes.

I'm not disagreeing at all Roy and my comments were more aimed at the problem, as indicated in Jack's original piece of people out there stealing pets or dogs of a certain colour and then providing these for sacrifice to whatever gods require it. I know people who have had their pets stolen in past years..whether it's for that or not, I don't know..both expat and Indonesian.

But the animal welfare issue in Indonesia goes far beyond the dog problem..although there is that but I agree that it's hard to remove that from our delicately trained western sensibilities (although I understand that many regard the consumption of herbivores as quite different from a dietary POV to eating carnivores but I don't know enough about that). Animal welfare is a problem here and needs to be addressed. And education and law go hand in hand on that.

 

[Jimbo]

Personally I find the keeping of animals as pets is a form of cruelty. For me personally it is even worse when I see pets being kept and treated as child substitutes.

It is amazing however how different cultures have different mores. Dogs are a prized food in Korea, horses in Grance and parts of continental Europe and especiall here in Kazakhstan.

I have eaten monkey brain in Zambia, goat head and "bush meat (rat) in Nigeria, camel in the middle east and so on. Horses for course to coin a pun is the order of the day. Cruelty however (Classed as the unecessary infliction of pain) is not acceptable.

Let us cry for cruelty to human beings however before animals. Just my opinion.

 

[BaliLife]

So before we judge the Balinese, are you ready to throw out the Old Testament

Yes.

 

[SG]

Animal rights in Asia have always been pretty non-existent which is unfortunate but there's not much that can be done about that.

That is slowly changing in some of Asia. Animal welfare laws exist and are increasingly enforced in Singapore and Malaysia. Thailand has laws but enforcement is weak although there has been an ongoing crackdown of Elephant welfare which seems to be working.

 

[SG]

So before we judge the Balinese, are you ready to throw out the Old Testament

Yes.

I concur 100%

 

[bookdemon]

That is slowly changing in some of Asia. Animal welfare laws exist and are increasingly enforced in Singapore and Malaysia. Thailand has laws but enforcement is weak although there has been an ongoing crackdown of Elephant welfare which seems to be working.

Well this is good news that laws at least exist in some places. I can only hope that things improve. I have seen some terrible treatment of animals in Sumatra and Java and it wasn't pleasant. This included removing the skins of huge Fruit Bats while they were still alive and selling it on the spot (sorry, I know its a terrible image). The "merchant" told me that the lungs of fruit bats are considered a delicacy and the fresher it is, the better. I was pretty horrified as most people would be, and I really wanted to say something in the hopes of stopping it, but realized that it wasn't my place to do so. I don't think the merchant would have listened anyway.

Richard

 

[Sergio]

So before we judge the Balinese, are you ready to throw out the Old Testament

Yes.

I concur 100%

Obviously the question was supposed to outline that Balinese do not sacrifice dogs for kicks and jollies, they do it purely for their religious beliefs. I don't know how the Hindu teachings were recorded and these sacrifices came about in Hindu beliefs, which is why I used the Old Testament as an example. However, if they are in any way shape of form the will of God/s, who are you to change them? You would then in essence be playing God, which is the part conveniently left out of context when you quoted me.

My point is, which seems to get ignored in this thread, that this is for religious beliefs. Everyone is taking about animal rights, etc.. etc.. nobody is talking about why the Balinese are even sacrificing dogs to begin with.

 

[SG]

I don't think the merchant would have listened anyway.

As with pretty much everything else in Indonesia, it's about education, education and more education. Singapore, Malaysia, Korea and China long ago worked that out. Sadly Indonesia spends far less of it's GDP on education than most countries, including Africa... which is criminal.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_e ... ing-of-gdp

 

[SG]

However, if they are in any way shape of form the will of God/s, who are you to change them? You would then in essence be playing God, which is the part conveniently left out of context when you quoted me.

Sorry but I regard that as an easy cop out especially when one looks at the numbers of horrific things that have been done world wide in the name of 'god' or religious belief. Hopefully, and we have a hell of a way to go, humanity is on a road to devolve itself from the pain such causes. Whilst I am not religious in any conventional form I am absolutely supportive of religious tolerance as long as it causes no pain or hurt to others.

The tolerance of animal kidnapping or any sort of sacrifice or any of the many things that horrify many of us in 2008 in the OT are not included in that tolerance..as is neither slavery, inquisition, sati and many other practices condoned in the name of religion over the years. If that's playing god (whichever one of the multiple conflicting all powerful deities the world currently has, you or may not subscribe to) on my part, then so be it.