are domestic maids in Indonesia living as slaves?

[Jimbo]

"But if you have ever lived or worked in Indonesia then you will know how lazy Indonesians are "

I have and they are not. I am afraid I find generalisations like this to be frankly insulting to Indonesians as well as being factually incorrect. Like other people in here have done I disagree with your posting apart from the last line.

 

[jill]

Hi Sergio
yep i'd have to agree with you, my friends in bali very much dislike the javanese , may be it is because they take jobs ?? but that is not a general rule . thats like saying all kiwi's wear black sure a lot do but not all ! i guss some pride may also be in there .
but there is no rule every one on there own merit , i don't no every one in Bali nor do's any one elts hear , so hard to make such a hudge statement ! ????
but sad to say all this talk do's not help , wish it where that easy ha , so all of you that pay a good wage which what this was all about good on you :lol:
those that don't

 

[Tommy]

neilf's post feels pretty cynical, but i've never lived in java so i can't speak for how it works there or what it does to you. i know alot of balinese that recents javanse for many different reasons, i also know of balinese that have no problem with javanese or at least doesn't express it. the point in this issue is that balinese don't make a big fuzz about it, unless there is an immediate threat or provocation...then all hell breaks loose. I can't say how it works on the other islands with different backgrounds and cultures, but the fact is... the demos, unjuk rasa and bentrokan are more or less always situated on the other islands. I have to agree to some point with Sergio because i've seen too many bad seeds from lombok, sumatera and java in Bali, but, i will not make a big fuzz about it nor judge anyone i haven't yet met or spoken to. can't say i like them.. nor will i say i recent anyone for their origin :roll:

 

[neilf]

Well i read most of your replies and to the people whom replied are taking one generalization a little to literally. But i am a little dissapointed by the balinese response that balinese don't like javenese, because it shows me that they have no idea of their own history. Do you know how many times over the centuries that the javanese have invaded bali and occupied it?? please look it up!!! However my wife is Indonesian and my 3 children were also born in Indonesia. So a for the bule's who live in Bali in a gypsy like existance...please you ignorance of the rest of Indonesia is very boring. Bali i like no other place in Indonesia. Very different. If you all wish to open your eyes travel to Jakarta and go to places like tangerang, bekasi, rawamungan, slipi, depok and so on. this is the real Indonesia. This were the real poor of Indonesian society live. Millions apon Millions of peolpe live in very poor circumstances. Bali is a beautiful place and has beautiful peolpe, but in reality it is just a postcard, the rest of Indonesia is nothing like Bali....absolutly nothing like Bali. And the idiot that feels i am cynical about all of this must surely be ignorant. How does the saying go. Ignorance is bliss. Peolpe open your eyes travel through Indonesia you too will see the real Indonesia.Bali is just a very small island with a very small population. It is so small compared to the rest of Indonesia...

 

[neilf]

I feel i should point out that i met my wife in Bali and from there we lived in Dili Post The UN invasion. We then moved back to Indonesia to Jakarta and traveled throughout Indonesia. This is for the ignorant living in Bali. The sex trade in Indonesia is well and alive. Peolpe are bought and sold everyday. Did you know that sundanese still marry their daughters to contracts. At the begining of every rice season contracts are drawn up between young men and women. Subsequently they are married. Once the rice season is over the man then has the right to terminate the contract and move on...even if the woman has bore a child. These women then cannot afford to live with their child so they mover to the city(jakarta)and move into the sex industry in all forms. This is common practise. you will never see this in the news as it is heavily censored, but it is there. and it is very substantial. The women in this case have no say or control in these circumstances. When you get of your computor from reading this please go to your maid or pembantu and ask her if she has a child in her kampung!! you may be suprised with her response...

 

[neilf]

In my final message i would like to state that i am not trying to cause any friction between and regions or peolpe on this forum, but when you get down into the bowels of Indonesia it is just as mean and nasty as any western society, but i think my major point that i was trying to make is that in poorer nations like Indonesia it is the minority and the poor that are the victims. And maybe if we didn't keep pretending that these problems didn't exist and did something about them then Indonesia would be a musc better place. Maybe next time when we offer a salary to our maids we can think about adding a little extra or take her shopping to buy a few extra clothes for her. Ask her when her birthday is and remember and buy her a nice gift for her birthday, don't be cheap and buy her a rice cooker! Buy her a washing machine!!!
As a bule we all have to admit that the work these maids do and what you have to pay is exactly the reason why we live in Bali. Otherwise we would all be living in our own countries. Maybe you should ask yourself this question? By having a maid and paying her mimimum wage am i helping her or by employing her am i making the problem worse.

 

[Tommy]

to tell "y'all" the truth.. this topic about maids is really an "off-topic" for me. why you might ask? i've never had a maid here or anywhere else.. and i will most likely never need or want one either. i would maby consider getting one when i get so old that i won't be able to drag my lazy white bum to cook, do dishes or wash myself. hopefully my future kids will help us out.. if not there will probably be a robot or two hoovering around... that's how off-topic this is to me!

as for sex-trade i don't know squat about it coz it's not something i've looked into or ever discussed with my balinese or foreign compadres.

as for "the indonesia" outside bali i can't tell either how it works... and frankly i don't care. i follow the news and see all the sh** going on around indonesia and i don't like what i'm seeing. ontop of it, all the people that've ever offered me drugs, girls etc etc in the streets here are from "your" indonesia neilf. how do i know? coz none of them understand jack when i speak to them in balinese. nevertheless i have good friends that are indos but my heart and passion goes with bali and the balinese. call me ignorant if you wish... i don't mind at all.

 

[drbruce]

Neilf,

I've been in Indonesia for 16 years, 11 of which have been outside of Bali, and I find your generalizations to be based on a reality that only you seem to inhabit. Get a grip.

 

[neilf]

Dear Dr Bruce, I think you must live in a cave!! I wish i was ignorant!!! Possibly this is why you still work and live in Indonesia.

 

[Bert Vierstra]

"Get a grip", "living in a Cave", "I wish I was ignorant". :shock:

Gentlemen, raise the level of your discussion, remain respectful or I lock the topic.

 

[balijeff]

Wow neilf.

Those are some mighty interesting posts there. I initially wasnt going to bother with a response but decided I would (obviously).

Where to start? Well, how about the true Indonesia. As others have pointed out, the counry is made of numerous indigenous peoples, languages, histories, cultures and so on. Despite this, you have seen the true Indonesia...please tell me what it is. What is the true Indonesia? And lets continue the logic shall we...what is the true Australia? or England? or America?

Sex trade? Yes. Read Sergios post for more info. Yet he missed half of the equation...economics. Supply and demand. The demand must come from somewhere...bule and Indo alike. As sergio said, it is the same story in every country...even yours neilf. Perhaps one should clean his own yard first before pointing fingers and crying foul.

I also would take issue with the whole Javanese invading Bali issue. I will accept, on your word, that such events have happened. Yet to continue harboring resentment for past wars is not a good strategy for living. Are you saying that Balinese should resent Javanese for past events? Does this in fact, mean you support genocide? Lets see if I understand the logic here: invade bali for whatever reasons. You win. If I leave survivors, they will hate me and harbor resentment. They may even strike back! So, kill them all and dont worry about it, afterall, the only way to achieve peace is by killing them all. Does that sound about right neilf? Please correct me if I misunderstood your post about balinese not liking javanese and the reason you suggest.

Again, in that same post (the one 7-8), you reiterate the real Indonesia. Well, I live in Indonesia. I have a house in Ancol. Seems real to me. I have a house in Jogja too. Last time I checked, it was also real. In fact the Alfa I goto in Sunter is real. Ditto for Hero here in Denpasar. I have neighbors in Kuta, Jogja and Ancol...and I bet if I asked them if their life was "real" they would say 'yes'. So, what is the real Indonesia?

Ugh, back to the sex trade. I am replying to your topics as you wrote them...yes, there is international human trafficking going on. It is repugnant and I would personally tie those snakeheads to a post and let their victims have razors and immunity.

Ok, I'll put something forth that may help. Is this an instance of culture clash? Perhaps their culture permits and allows daughters to be wed to contracts. I have seen documentaries where there are cultures in which sons are spared and the daughters murdered. We find it shocking. They find it normal and maybe necessary. Perhaps our own sense of morality is the problem. I cannot add any more than that, I am forced to try and remember the program and heresay is never a good strategy. I also admit the arguement is an academic one.

You are not trying to cause friction. Bull. Next.

Oh, a shock! I actually agree with you! It must be snowing in hell. Maids are people. They have thoughts and feelings and dreams of their own (and ours as a 5 year-old daughter and is a widow). Ever asked him/her what his/her dreams are? Sri, our nanny/maid only wants a good job, good pay, good spouse, good future for her daughter and to be happy.
Oh, then you blow it one sentence later.
Why do I live here? Hahaha, not because Im lazy my friend. I live here because I choose to live here...ok, our businesses are here too. To suggest that I live here because Im lazy is another insult.

Do you honestly believe that one day, sitting in New York with my wife and daughter I decided to quit my 6 figure job at IBM, sell everything I own and move across the globe so I could have a maid? Do you really believe anyone ever thinks that? Hahahahaha!

Well, neilf, I will conclude my little tirade. I will now retreat to Plato's cave and remain ignorant with Dr. Bruce and all the other insenitive, arrogant, oppresive bules who moved here so we could further take advantage of the Indonesians as maids and as sex objects.

balijeff

 

[Jimbo]

Neilf

Like you many of us have been in Indonesia for many years, are married to Indonesians and have children born here. I myself have been from "Sabang ke Merauke" and on every major island froup in Indonesia as part of Transmigration studies. That is why I have no hesitation in condemning your sweeping generalisations of Indonesians.

I feel sorry for your attitude and wonder just what you get out of Indonesia as the lack of respect you show does not help me respect your point of view.

 

[matahari]

Neilf.

Possibly this is why you still work and live in Indonesia.

and what is wrong with that??? In my opinion it`s alot better than working back home with some job you aint like and surounded by people like you.

take your bs somewhere else.

 

[Thorsten]

In my final message ...

To tell you the truth Neil, I was a kind of relieved when I read this sentence, thought this would stop now, unfortunately I was wrong.

Well, I don’t live in Indonesia nor I ever will, I will certainly not dare to claim any special insight for me regarding the clash of different cultures, races, religions, languages inside Indonesia, but I’m also surprised, that you claim this for yourself, after 5 years living in Indonesia!

It seems to me, you are the last guardian of the absolute truth, the only seeing under all the blind around here.

Of course, all these lazy, ignorant idiots here will never develop any kind of comprehension for YOUR truth, they haven’t been touched by the ray of wisdom, like you, so it’s just like preaching to the deaf – a waste of time.

You are absolutely right Neil, indeed it’s really a shame, how all these lazy expats are exploiting their maids, just to pay them a wage to enable them having a normal life is too less, yes only because of them, they are able to live in Indonesia, so at least a washing machine, a Mercedes Benz, some jewels, every week a bouquet of roses, maybe a nice apartment in Cannes, Nice or
St. Tropez should cover all the efforts of these ladies.
So come on all you lazy expats in Indonesia, pay your maid a minimum wage of 25 mio Rps per month (40 hrs per week), including health insurance, unemployment insurance, retirement fund, give her 30 days paid holidays per year, a 13th or maybe 14th month salary at x-mas, buy her a fully high tech equipped kitchen, like we do and welcome her with a glass of champagne in the morning (9:00 am), don't bother her with things like washing the floor, one of her expensive extended nails could be dameged.
That’s why almost nobody here do have maids, if you cannot afford this, get up your lazy asses and make some money, or send your maid home to her village and donate them a sack of rice from time to time.

regards
Thorsten

 

[Bert Vierstra]

Even here in the villages near Singaraja and Lovina, there is some "sex trade". Poorer people, read girls, are given (?) away, to richer people. I know one case. Her mother sells "banten" in front of my Perumahan. I had to fire her sister as Pembantu, because she stole from us.

Poorer girls in the villages, BEEP the richer guys, for money.

There are "complexes" like Bungkulan, where there is a large area where there are girls, plenty from Java. 30-50.000 rupiah is the going price.

Patokan, Mattok, mean those words anything to you?

Thats were the poor girls go to, here in Buleleng, they look like innocent warungs, but...

 

[charlie]

Well, neilf has left me completely speechless!! I can't really comment on the whole pembantu issue because I never had one the whole time I lived in Indonesia.

 

[FreoGirl]

Re: RE: are domestic maids in Indonesia living as slaves?

As a bule we all have to admit that the work these maids do and what you have to pay is exactly the reason why we live in Bali. Otherwise we would all be living in our own countries.

Sheez Neif, either you are trying real hard to stir us up, or you're just plain ignorant. If the later, speak for yourself. I do not have nor desire a maid, and the ability to have a maid at a cheap cost bears absolutely NO relation to why I live in Lombok (not Bali by the way).

I agree that those that do have maids should pay a fair wage and take care of them, and if you read the earlier parts of this thread you will see that the contributors are doing this.

As Dr Bruce so eloquently put it "Get a Grip!"

 

[Jimbo]

Just as a matter of interest as part of getting a retirement visa one of the stipulations is that I employ a maid!

 

[matsaleh]

That's very true Jimbo. I've also looked at these requirements.

Quoted from Bali Ide website, under requirements for Retirement Visa :

"Employment Letter - Affidavit. You must emply at least one Indonesian citizen for assistancces kind of work, such as nursing, housekeeping or any other kind of assistances during your stay in Indonesia. In that regard, you must submit a letter stating that you are currently employing or intend to employ an Indonesian assistant."

http://www.bali-expat-business.com/indo ... sa.php?p=2

 

[Roy]

Bert, don't lock the topic. Nielf had his points, although I was as angered as you likely were with his assumption that Dr. Bruce "lives in a cave." Dr. Bruce is a big boy, and he will continue to participate here.

We should expect this forum to have messages from time to time from those who are so obviously frustrated by their own lack of courage to live beyond their own borders. That they may lash out at us, telling us that the only reason why we chose to live here is becasue we can take advantage of other people is a result of their own ignorance.

Posters like Nielf have no idea what we do here on Bali, or how much we each contribute in our own way for the health, welfare, and eductation of the Balinese, or in the case of Dr. Bruce, the people of Sumbawa.