Using endangered species for tourist entertainment.

matsaleh

Super Moderator
May 26, 2004
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Legian, Bali
tracyinaz said:
BTW, how do you work those smiley things?....
Hi Tracy and welcome to the forum.

If you click on the "Post Reply" icon (below the last post in the thread) instead of typing in the "Reply to Topic" box, a new reply box opens. The emoticons are on the left side of the screen. :wink:
 

a leap of faith

New Member
Jun 19, 2006
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Norm
You are right I don't know you at all.
I aplogise if my tone was a little robust.

I kinda have a bee in my bonnet about volunteers in developing countries. I don't really want to get into right now as I don't have the time to really put my thoughts down... but that is pretty much why you caught both barrels of my emotional shotgun.

Its been a great thread I think.. it unwittingly has opened up a great debate.

My only regret is that I don't have more time to contribute.
 

Thorsten

Member
Nov 30, 2002
632
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Germany
The last days I was thinking hard about this string, I tried to extract the essence of all these different points and putt them together in a context, I must admit it took me some sleepless nights, but finally at 3:30am Saturday night on that party I guess I found a solution!

First of all, streets are made for vehicles not for dogs, so get the dogs from the streets they hinder the traffic!
1 mio dogs are a lot, adopting, de-sexing, nursing and feeding them will not work, try to imagine only the 1mio cans of dog food day by day will cause a waste problem for Bali, so I favourite the Spanish solution, but at the other hand, who should do this and why?
When so many dogs are on the streets, almost nobody is able to drive anymore (ok, trucks and pick-up can overrun them, but it’s leaving a mess and also looks not so nice to the tourists), so less traffic means less use of fuel, ergo less profit for gas stations and petrol industry!
Let’s say the petrol companies would collect the street dogs (deliver a street dog and get 10 litre fuel for free), a brand new source of income for local drivers, no dogs/ cadavers on the streets anymore will increase the sale of fuel!
But what to do with all the collected dogs? Hey we are talking here about probably 15,000,000 kg meat!!!
Meat is not my business, but I know some experts here in Germany which even made good money out of rotten cadavers, so maybe export or Sate ala Sulawesi would be an option?
The capital could come from the petrol industry, the profit out of the meat business will be invested into exploring some new sources somewhere in the jungles of Indonesia, or maybe export the meat to North Korea and get a nice nuclear power plant in reverse? I see many options here and also new jobs!

Dolphins in hotel pools are disgusting, this should be forbidden, wouldn’t like to swim in Dolphin’s poo!
The concept of the hotel zoo is completely wrong in my point of view, it’s not using the potential attraction of the animals enough, although I agree that sending wild animals back into the jungle in insanity (a threat for the workers of all these mining, petrol, timber companies there) since the jungle will be burned down in any way, so these wild animals should better get used to progress!
The problem in Bali is a completely lack of creativity when it comes to business, everybody is doing the same, no analysis of the market, no new ideas, the fisherman are waiting for tourists, their wives are waiting for tourists, the woodcarvers are waiting for tourists and so on – in the meantime the Dolphins are eating the last fish in the sea.

The Aussie binge tourists will seldom find the way up to Lovina, they are hanging out in Kuta and the North is empty, but hey there are masses of drivers now waiting after solving the street dog problem, so there is a need to attract people to visit the North!
Japanese love Dolphins, so why not attracting them, they have money and they spend it!
A McDolphin’s drive in, Dolphin burgers, sandwiches, Dolphin Sushi, hey the Orang Utan could serve the plastic bags into the car, maybe in a nice uniform, or could at least wash the windows of the cars while waiting.
The fisherman had finally work and while they are out hunting Dolphins, their wives could create a small market on the other side of the street, selling lentil, tofu, Couscous, candles and “Free Flipper” buttons to all the animal rights activists, protesting in the night watch across the street.
The drivers could transport the Dolphin hunters and also the Dolphin lovers (don’t mix them), maybe a Birkenstock outlet would be built, even a monthly event is thinkable – maybe slaughter your Dolphin by yourself or paint ball hunting on the Moon bear.

Ah, I almost forgot to solve the problem of the family with the cow, since the swimming pool is empty now put the cow beside it, no need to walk for water anymore, the girl is happily jumping in her new Birkenstock sandals on her way to school, wearing a McDolphin’s cap and smiling for the Hara Krishna fraction those are just chewing on Sate anjing.

Best regards :wink:
Thorsten
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
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Ubud, Bali
Thorsten, I agree, that was hilarious and a proper icing to this entire string! By the way, I saw David at one of Gentry’s famous parties the other night, and he asked me to pass on a fond hello...so “hello” from David.

Tracy in Arizona...many thanks for your kind words. I don’t get many kind words here that often, so I have to savor them and memorize those posts where they do occur! :p :p :p

In all seriousness though, this is a great forum. Our host Bert, and moderator Mats have worked very hard over the years and their time and effort has obviously paid off when they read comments like yours.

“Leap” we miss you! When are you coming home to Bali? Norm, if you understood “Leap’s” business necessary current absence from Bali, and his awesome wife waiting for him here, you would appreciate and grow to love his crankiness. As for me, nobody but my mom or Eri EVER tells me it’s time for bed! :shock: :shock:
 

Thorsten

Member
Nov 30, 2002
632
1
16
Germany
Thanks Roy,

and a heartly Grüzi back to David, btw how is his compost project going?


Hi Jim,

must admitt I've never heard from Rube Goldberg before but I have googled him now, the inspiration of my idea due dogs and Dolphins came more from South Park :wink:

best regards
Thorsten
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
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Ubud, Bali
btw how is his compost project going?

Great, until he decided to try it out as a sauna. If he had only taken a mandi before showing up at Gentry’s party, he might have been able to have a conversation with a person. As it was, Gentry’s dog is in L U V with David. :shock:

Well, I guess we all have our Kramer folks in our lives.

Please don't tell me you've never watched Seinfeld!
 

matsaleh

Super Moderator
May 26, 2004
2,479
151
63
Legian, Bali
My imagination's running wild with this thread. I've conjured up images of Thorsten quoting Kenny from South Park and Roy's friend arriving at a party in a swarm of flies, surrounded by a pack of enraptured Bali street dogs!

Thank you gentlemen... you've made my night. :p :p
 

jogry blok

Member
Sep 28, 2005
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Dencarick
It is not neccessary to keep wild animals to attract tourists. I think tourists come to Bali to experience the beauty of the place and to meet the lovely balinese people, who I have great admiration for.
Roy, why is it that you always have to come down so hard on people to put your point accross. Are you born in March?
Have a lovely time, enjoy your wife and beautiful family.
Next time please spell my name right!
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
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Ubud, Bali
No Jorgy, I was born in November...a Sagittarian. And what makes you think I came down hard on people on this sting? Did you read it all? I guess not!

For your information, the Melka hotel does nothing to promote their hotel by way of their zoo as being an attraction. Fact is, we didn’t even know it existed until our fist visit some years ago. Just check their most popular web site...their zoo isn’t even mentioned, let alone highlighted:

http://www.99bali.com/hotels/melka/

You write, "it is not neccessary to keep wild animals to attract tourists."

So, does that mean the Australian Zoo is not considered a tourist attraction to Australia? :lol:
 

jogry blok

Member
Sep 28, 2005
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Roy,zoo,s are not necessary for tourist attractions, nowadays zoo,s are used to breed the animals. so that our grandchildren still can see what a lion or any of the other animals looked like. You should see the zoo which the late Steve Irwin build with his father and the information given to the public.
If we do not take care of nature now there will be nothing left.
 

rien.gluvers

Member
Jun 26, 2004
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The Netherlands near Rotterdam
Re: RE: Using endangered species for tourist entertainment.

Roy said:
For your information, the Melka hotel does nothing to promote their hotel by way of their zoo as being an attraction. Fact is, we didn’t even know it existed until our fist visit some years ago.

Dear Roy, the fact that the zoo is not mentioned on their homepages anymore and/or that you didn't no about the existance is not the same as them not using it.

In advertorials, brochure etc. like http://www.baliplus.com/rev/cover0906.htm the still are using the zoo as a main attraction af the hotel.
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
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Ubud, Bali
Jogry writes:

Roy,zoo,s are not necessary for tourist attractions, nowadays zoo,s are used to breed the animals. so that our grandchildren still can see what a lion or any of the other animals looked like. You should see the zoo which the late Steve Irwin build with his father and the information given to the public.

Yup, and that’s why the Australian zoo (Irwin) has that huge crocodile stadium that can seat thouands! I guess the reasoning there is that crocs like to breed in public? :shock:

Rien writes:

In advertorials, brochure etc. like http://www.baliplus.com/rev/cover0906.htm the still are using the zoo as a main attraction af the hotel.

I hate to tell you, but that site is an online Bali guide book! And your quote, "The owners love for animals shows in the small zoo" comes from

http://www.goyogyakarta.com/hotels/melk ... /index.php

...which is yet another travel related web site!


My point is that the owners of the Melka, in their own endeavors to market their hotel have not promoted their zoo at all!

My real point is that before one goes slamming a Bali business based on limited knowledge, and no personal experience, and suggesting boycotts, one should step back and have a good look at the other side of the coin.

Businesses in Bali are suffering enough, and the last thing they need is misinformed, misguided, off the cuff bullshit criticism without the full story at hand. Mengerti?! :evil:
 

rien.gluvers

Member
Jun 26, 2004
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The Netherlands near Rotterdam
Re: RE: Using endangered species for tourist entertainment.

Roy said:
I hate to tell you, but that site is an online Bali guide book!
Yep, I now, but the publicity here is not for free and is based on the info the management wants to show

Roy said:
And your quote, "The owners love for animals shows in the small zoo" comes from

http://www.goyogyakarta.com/hotels/melk ... /index.php

...which is yet another travel related web site!!

Also true but where else does a hotel-owner want to "advertise". Again the info shown is the info given by Melka.

So, my point is that the owners of the Melka, in their own endeavours to market their hotel have promoted their zoo a lot!

Bert said:
If Melka is as bad as people seem to think, I don't know, I will talk with the owner next week, and try to give him a voice. I already spoke briefly with him, and heard something about a school for handicapped children where dolphins will be used.

I hope that Bert can share some new input from the owners themselves. I am really curious to hear the point of view.
 

Bert Vierstra

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
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Homeless
Re: RE: Using endangered species for tourist entertainment.

rien.gluvers said:
Roy said:
And your quote, "The owners love for animals shows in the small zoo" comes from

http://www.goyogyakarta.com/hotels/melk ... /index.php

...which is yet another travel related web site!!

Also true but where else does a hotel-owner want to "advertise". Again the info shown is the info given by Melka.

So, my point is that the owners of the Melka, in their own endeavours to market their hotel have promoted their zoo a lot!

Bert said:
If Melka is as bad as people seem to think, I don't know, I will talk with the owner next week, and try to give him a voice. I already spoke briefly with him, and heard something about a school for handicapped children where dolphins will be used.

I hope that Bert can share some new input from the owners themselves. I am really curious to hear the point of view.

As soon as I have time, but you are free to contact Melka yourself and do your own research before speaking bad about them.

Hmm the text (and picture) on the yogjakarta site are by me and copied from http://www.balihotelguide.com, interesting.... :shock:

Taken from a listing of Melka's first hotel....
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
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Ubud, Bali
Rien, travel guides, be they in print on paper, or on the internet are supposed to be independent reviews, insights, information, etc gathered from the personal experiences of the makers of the guide book, or trusted contributors. For example, Lonely Planet has operated this way for many years.

Sure, if one would “grease the palm” of the publishers of such books, or internet hosts, one might get extra attention. BUT, if that were the case, then why wouldn’t the Melka overtly promote its zoo in its own published material such as their web site, and their printed brochures?

What the Melka says about itself is NOT about its zoo! If others who produce travel sites about Bali chose to zero in on the Melka zoo, what the hell can the Melka do?
 

a leap of faith

New Member
Jun 19, 2006
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There has been some discussion lately in the media about Indonesia’s plan to allow more massive oil palm plantations in its jungles to produce cleaner, cheaper bio-fuels.

Inevitably we get wannabe eco warriors whinging like drama queens on steroids about the ruination of Orang-utan habitats.

Too often we look down on our fellow mammals with slightly different numbers of chromosomes and pontificate in a patronising and self-righteous manner that "these creatures belong in the jungle".

If modern, fenced-in concrete houses, processed food, and a violent drug riddled society are good enough for us homo-sapiens, then I believe we have to show equal respect for our fellow mammals and not stifle their civilised development by saying "they belong in the jungle". It’s akin to apartheid segregation.

Most educated Orang-utans I know just want to learn to stand on their own two feet and stop living on welfare from the WWF. But their development is stifled by middle class do-gooders who consider urban apes to be abhorrent. Oh I know I hear some stick in the mud, Luddite type orang-utans whinging about preserving their culture and habitat.

Well I say to you my furry friends, wake up and smell the smog, that’s progress. You have intelligence you have opposable thumbs, just get on with it... evolve. There are jobs out there for you that are currently done by humans with far less skills than you. Such as call centre staff, traffic wardens, tax inspectors and the presidency of the United States.

If guess if they would just send their kids to school and not spend the afternoons asleep maybe they would get somewhere.

Bio-fuels are the way of the future and much more environmentally friendly than current fossil fuels. Have we ever bothered asking Orang-utans if they'd like to go upmarket, away from those god-forsaken jungles and move into a cushy zoo?

Or even those nice little jungle orang-utan re education centres where they are coddled and cared for by the likes of Julia Roberts? If you were an orang-utan wouldn't you rather be fed bananas by movie starlets in a nice villa rather than being stalked by tigers and mosquitoes out in the jungle?

I say buy bio-fuel stocks and take your children to the zoo or special orang-utan resorts. Sponsor an orang-utan family and put their kids through school. Everybody, including the orang-utans, will be happier and healthier -- and eventually they will evolve to become independent homeowners, moving into your neighbourhood, driving gas guzzling SUVs and attending PTA meetings.

I need to get out more!