SO, WHAT REALLY IS GOING ON IN ENGLAND?

Mark Wales

Member
Aug 16, 2006
64
0
6
Wales, United Kingdom
Dear Aleaxandre,

We have quite a few similar instances like this in my country (India).
With the world of "us" and "them" the depressing thought is that the
first casualty always remains the truth.
What will we tell our children when they ask us for the truth?
That we have misplaced it?


Salaam brothers

Mark
 

dawnofjedi

Member
Mar 8, 2004
54
0
6
Ubud / New York
Greetings to all...

Frankly, I would like to start this off by saying that I am appalled by what I have been reading from some of the people on this forum. Innocent people are repeatedly, day in a day out in different places around the world, being slaughtered in horrendous ways by terrorists claiming to act in the name of God. We see it happen over and over again. We can see the videos of fierce and fiery rhetoric being spewed out by fanatical religious leaders and absorbed to the core by brainwashed followers. And what you choose to focus on are these grandiose conspiracy theories, utilizing evidence from biased sources and seeming to try and transform this reality of terrorism into a domestic political game. Interesting to learn that this 'grand vizier' whose opinion you have trumped up as proof of your silly conspiracies was publicly fired and humiliated by the same government that he criticizes.

Whatever lies that you think are being disseminated by our own democratically elected leaders, they are ultimately irrelevant in the face of the reality of scores of scorched suicide bomb victims stretching from NYC, England, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Israel, India, Bali, Jakarta, Jordan, and wherever else these brainwashed 'holy warriors' decide to bring their Jihad.

It seems to me that what we have here on this forum are some people that are either in a deep state of denial over the reality of this era, or otherwise completely devoid of any sense of compassion.

The most recent comments come from England, where a little over a year ago 50 people were slaughtered in the horrendous London bombings. And also India, where not much more than a month ago 200 people were "wiped off the face of the map" (I quote these words, albeit I am using them in a different context than they were originally used, but they were coined by no less than the grand supporter of all these acts, and if you dont know who I am referring to by quoting his words, then it is clearly a waste of time writing this anyway as you are probably getting your news from moveon.org or something of the like).

So all I would say is please find a little compassion in your hearts, and realize that when you hear about the next suicide bombing in a restaurant or on a bus, those are actually people there, and as you type away conspiracy theories on your computers they are suffering in physical agony. And the emotional suffering of their families is probably just as painful.

All I can really say is that it is very depressing to hear seemingly intelligent individuals diminish the suffering of terrorist victims worldwide into some sort of domestic political issue. What bothers me most is that you are verbally striking out at those who aim to protect you, and not even a mention about those who would have been just as happy had you been in the fiery blaze of their creation. Maybe if one of these victims would happen to be your own brother, or neighbor, then you would take it a little more seriously and see the situation for what it is. And as a disclaimer, I do not personally know anyone who was affected by any of these terrorist acts.

Whether this plot was true or not true matters not. What matters is that suicide bombs are real, and if our government is trying to scare us into believing that they still exist, that is fine with me. Because they do exist.

And if this recent 'uncovered plot' was not a legitimate attempt to avert a potential disaster, it was at least an effort to cure this mind-boggling complacency that is being perfectly exhibited by some of those on this forum in the face of an enemy that believes he (or she) will attain paradise over the burnt corpse of, god forbid, you or I.

OM MANI PADME HUM
 

Alexandre

Member
Nov 21, 2005
55
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6
London, UK
Dawnofjedi,
Well, sorry but I don't see terrorists everywhere I go and maybe I'm indeed stupid by not being terrorized myself. Maybe the governments and the media are not doing such a good job after all.

When it comes to intelligence and the shortcuts you take, then allow me to take a few myself.

- you talk about people being slaughtered in countless countries over time by terrorists, what about the Indians slaughtered in America? What about Vietnam, and Irak now? How many civilians have been killed by the good guys?

- What is this all about? It's about demonizing everything that looks like a Muslim/Arab.

- Why? Because it makes it easier for our starved oil countries to justify the grabbing of their resources.

The same demonizing tactics are used again. The nazis used them against the Jews. They were demonized because they had all the riches so annihilating them was the way to recapture their riches.
Today it's oil. You demonize the Muslims so you can go after their oil resources.

It's so simple and works so well with the mentally depleted.

Everyday there is more indifference. If killing is required to fill the tank, then so be it. Anyway, these guys are terrorists so I don't fell guilty. More and more people accept this and just turn their back or do not want to listen.

I'm sorry but I don't buy that bull***t. And please, don't bring God into this. God is not American. He is Jew, Black and doesn't bless you.

Mark Wales, you are right.

What will we tell our children?
 

dawnofjedi

Member
Mar 8, 2004
54
0
6
Ubud / New York
first off mr. alexandre...

where on earth did i even once demonize muslims? where did i even say the word 'muslim'?

it seems like you are trying to hear what you want to hear.

fyi...at least half of my closest friends are muslim, including members of my own extended family, my sister's husband, as well as my own girlfriend...and this has nothing to do with 99% of the muslim population of the world, who follow a righteous path...

i follow a spiritual policy that all people are possessed of a soul and for the most part that soul is good...but sometimes the soul is corrupted and i am not just going to close my eyes to those people...if you know much of anything about religion in general, including our beloved Balinese religion, then you would understand that the majority of the people in the world do make a distinction between truth and illusion as manifest through humanity...

the sad thing is, the vast majority of those being killed by these Jihad terrorist are actually muslims...do you ever actually read about what is happening in Iraq or Pakistan, or do you just follow your 'gut feeling' about who you believe is doing all this...or do you even want to try and make us believe that sectarian violence that is rampant in those societies and dates back to the 7th century AD is actually an American creation?

my issue is directed at 'fanatics', particularly those that manipulate the religion and follow the ideal Jihad...a fringe group...Islam itself is a beautiful religion, and there are many wonderful people that adhere to it...dont try and manipulate my words...and who is this "You" that you seem to be referring to as he who is pillaging and killing? i am an individual human being and do not represent the opinions or actions of anyone but myself...and ultimately all i wish for is peace and i see that as a possibility only when the extremism is quenched....and i will be the first to admit that it is very likely that much of what the Western powers have done in reaction to this has fanned the flames of that extremism, and the West has definitely made many mistakes in the confronting of this issue of fanaticism....

and also, you are not supposed to see the terrorists everywhere...what a silly supposition...is that really what you need to believe they exist? read between the lines man, suicide bombs are the acts of human beings...real human beings, whether you want to believe that or not...and they dont walk around wearing t-shirts declaring their intentions...

AND finally...I agree there have been countless innocents killed in Vietnam, Iraq, and especially the American Indians...and oh, need we forget, as you seem to have, the European Colonialism (not to mention Crusades) that carved this world up into the disastrous state that it is in today....by my believing we need to defend ourselves against fanatic terrorists it says NOTHING about what I believe the Western powers have historically perpetrated....

so please stop jumping to conclusions, making assumptions, and displaying your inability to comprehend the idea that there might be some people out there that dont care at all for your 'higher moral ground' and would like to continue fighting...its very naive...

and by the way, where is all this oil that "I" am going after? seems to me if that was the intention it would be pretty easy for the Americans to go in there and drain it all out...i guess there must of been a leak in the pipe of something...3 years later and Iraq indeed does seem a major miscalculation that has not done much else but fan the flames...nevertheless, I see these oil arguments as ridiculous in light of the fact that America as an occupying power has seen little to no benefit from this oil...but I strongly believe that one of the major reasons America went in to this fight was to try and create an 'Ideal' democratic Middle East...and although I believe those to be noble intentions, clearly the region was not ready for it, certainly not by direct war....

i wish i could live an the idyllic world that you live in, but wait a minute...i just touched something, and felt it! wow...this world is real! and real things happen to people...and singing songs about conspiracy theories is not going to disarm a suicide bomber with a taste for paradise...the fact is we need to defend ourselves and your lack of compassion in light of people dying at the hands of terrorists, is puzzling to say the least....

and the funniest thing of all is that you ask me not to bring God into this...please give a logical argument separating the Jihad rhetoric from the misuse of God? have you actually ever seen the propaganda of Hamas, Al-Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, or Hezbollah (translation: party of God)? i dont think this was my creation....

and one final thing: who the hell are you to say who God blesses and who God doesnt bless? quit fooling yourself and acquire some humility...

OM MANI PADME HUM
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
4,835
1
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Ubud, Bali
Well, this is about the time I scream MA'AF and apologize for starting the string in the first place! :oops: :oops: :oops:

Nah! :shock: It's going so well, I'd never say that! :p


There's nothing for me to say...as it's all in the archives.

But, I personally think it’s good to get these kind of discussions “on the table” and hopefully Bert will soon be able to open the Warung Kopi for exactly these kinds of discussions.
 

Alexandre

Member
Nov 21, 2005
55
0
6
London, UK
I never said you directly demonize or intend to demonize Muslims.

That's the objective and increasingly so the result of the propaganda people are being fed. You are just a victim.

Reality is not objectively measured. Your reality doesn't need to mine and mine yours. Your reality is the terror some Western governments artfully magnify. My terror is 1984.

By no means do I condone fanaticism. Unfortunately extremism is purportedly fed by our foreign policies. The ultimate purpose being demonization of the Muslim in order to grab their riches, i.e. oil. You know that and we all know that. Whether we want to hear it is another story.

It's not my intention to say who God blesses and who he doesn't but I am entitled to my beliefs.

Could you tell me why God should bless America. Who said that?

If God blesses America, does he also bless Africa or is there a limited amount of blessing that can be obtained and if you don't get it then you're trouble.

What a blessing bull***t.
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
4,835
1
36
Ubud, Bali
If God blesses America, does he also bless Africa or is there a limited amount of blessing that can be obtained?

A great question Alexandre and one where the honest answer scares me more than the question.

Soon Bert will set up a warung for all these conversations to be discussed. Personally, I agree, that wherever we live, or where we call home, these kind of discussions are important, and they all very much impact Bali, or for that matter, all of Indonesia and all the places we live.