queues at petrol stations

[Roy]

You are absolutely right in saying that Indonesia sells its fuel locally at a greatly subsidized price. It exports fuel at close to double the local pump prices. Black market exporting of Indonesian fuel is a big problem here, and stories of smugglers being caught are fairly regular on the local news.

As for electrical power here, it is primarily generated by burning fossil fuels...aka, coal.

 

[BaliLife]

I've only read FreoGirls and Jimbo's last post so forgive me if i repeat anything previously stated by others..

Freogirl, you noted:

I don't know how nuclear power would make much difference

Indonesia aside, I'm a believer that Nuclear power provides the world with an amazing opportunity, and probably the only realistic opportunity to end the destructive use of fossil fuels.. Once a policy was agreed upon that said, ok, we're going to embrace nuclear energy, there would very quickly be industry response in ensuring end user products that required power were capable of utilizing whatever the output of Nuclear powere was - electricity of course.. The problem with trying to make a case for electric cars today is that it's probably more environmentally destructive to use an electric car given that so much of the world's electricity is generated by burning coal..

I always tell my mum, who's a real green that much of the blame for global warming lays on the shoulders of greens like her, who have stood in the way of Nuclear power's growth and development as a safe and clean source of energy for many decades... Part of that statement is to stir my mum - but only a small part - I believe it's largely true..

ct

 

[tintin]

Froggie writes

...so that they (the Iraqis) may have sovereinty back without giving the U.S the lucrative contracts they deserve.

What gall! Typical Texan arrogance! :evil: The Iraqis owe the "deserving US" lucrative (oil) contracts? That must be in appreciation for the Americans invading their country that had not threaten them, killing in the process tens of thousands of Iraqi soldiers and civilians, provoking a civil war that killed more than 100,000 civilians and resulted in more than 2 millions refugees, and totally wrecked the whole country? Now, the US oil mafia is desperately trying to shove down the throat of the Iraqis a PSA (Production Sharing Agreement), which would be a legalized grand theft of the Iraqi oil. These benefactors of Iraq have been trying for more than 4 years to get the Iraqi to agree to that PSA, but fortunately, most Iraqis are not asleep at the wheel and are against such a contract, including the Iraqi oil workers' union. The only people who are in favor of the PSA are the puppet Al Maliki and his buddies.

 

[BaliLife]

nice post tin.. i think you've summed up the views of most observers.. what bush started will go down in history as a travesty against mankind.. a blatant violation of international law that is comparable to hitler's crimes against the jews.. sure hitler's crimes were based on milking peoples ignorance for the purposes of ethnic cleansing, while the current US administration's crimes were based on milking peoples ignorance for corporate profit.. it's hard to suggest which is worse..

ct

 

[josefk]

BaliLife...sorry I have to pick you up on this...Bush's crimes are comparable to Hitler??? surely not...I think Idi Amin has a greater comparability and claim to that one, with Pol Pot bringing up the rear.

If you look at history it is debatable whether the real reason for Hitler's actions was ethnic cleansing rather than corporate greed. Consensus amongst my Jewish friends is that he undertook those actions purely for corporate greed...he focused on those holding the power/money 'purse strings' and by hard work and determination over many centuries that happened to be the Jewish people. And having visited the Auschwitz museum, can I respectfully suggest that Hitler's crimes were slightly more heinous than profiteering...

I don't condone Iraq at all and I agree it is a travesty, but Hitleresque...no.

Anyway the price of oil...

Yes oil is power, no surprises there. So to reduce the world's burden on this resource (and to reduce conflict) I take it everyone is going to swap their SUV for a car that at least has less than a 1.5 litre engine? No?...ok. I understand that the four block ride to school is full of off-road possibilities so that's OK.

You will also not buy any food that is pre-packaged or has a obscene carbon footprint coz you wanted cucumber in December.

Oh and no plastic bags!!! OMG - that will kill off the Bali 'striped' plastic bag myth...lol.

Todays irony and the letter U and the number 6 was brought to you by Sesame Street

 

[BaliLife]

Hi josefk,

You're right, there was more to Hitler's intentions than ethnic cleansing.. I guess what I'm saying is whether you kill tens of thousands or a couple of million, for any self beneficial reason, you're in the same basket. I also wouldn't give Bush the sole credit (or blame) for Iraq. Some might argue he was a puppet of the far right republicans, but frighteningly many democrats supported his endeavours..

I believe the current price of oil can be put squarely on the shoulders of hedge fund managers who have caused a massive speculative bubble. That said, I'm a believer in free market, but I sure as hell don't want to be hearing of any hedge funds being "bailed out" when they (if they) get cleaned up in a correction. This will appear in contradiction to my last sentence, but I do feel something has to be done to reduce the amount of speculation in oil. A 1% exit from the treasury markets into oil results in a 4% jump in oil proces - simply because the oil markets are so much smaller. The implications of most other assets being in a prolonged speculative bubble are far less than that of oil being in a state of such. High oil prices drive inflation and have devastating effects on real economies. That said, I liked the Goldman analyst's view.. He said higher oil prices will make people behave more responsibly when consuming energy on a daily basis.. Unfortunately, 'responsible' behaviour usually goes hand in hand with 'responsible spending' by the consumer, which can of course threaten growth.

Anyhow, enough on that.. It will be interesting to see how well the Indonesian economy withstands this latest round of hikes. My feeling is that it will be manageable overall, but the follow on inflationary effects will have a devastating effect on those at the bottom of the economic chain - but few will hear or care about that..

Ct

 

[Sanurian]

ronb

...So now the price has gone up to Rp6,000 per litre of premium. We first hit it last Saturday...

Sounds to me like you were ripped-off. As far as I know, the 28.7% price increase hasn't come into effect yet. Very soon, though!

I needed some petrol last Saturday, too, in Sanur. There was no Premium to be found. My usual petrol station told me there was a supply delay from Java and they expected new stock later that afternoon.

Just in case, I filled up with Pertamax (Rp 9,000/litre). That's Indonesian petrol supposedly with a higher octane rating. Still full of lead, of course. I do that as a matter of course every now and again, in an attempt to reduce pinging in my engine. I think it works unless I get sold fake petrol. (It happens.)

Having to pay Rp 6,000/litre for Premium sounds like a case of somebody jumping the gun.

:shock:

 

[josefk]

BaliLife...sorry I hope you got that I was just messing with you...I realised that was not what you meant.

Add in some oil producing powers playing 'power broker' and I then agree with your summation of hedge funds being responsible for the oil crisis.

I find it interesting re the posting of price comparisons from other countries (I could add in the UK price...now that will bowl you off your feet) but feel it is not complementary to this discussion...surely the issue is that the price of petrol for the ordinary hard working Indonesian compared to their daily wage is like an Englishman paying £50 a gallon (actually the price to the english would be a damn sight more, but you get my point). Add into the mix that a large proportion of Balinese that work in the tourist industry do not live in the place they work then the issue of oil price becomes a critical 'do I eat or not today' debate.

 

[SG]

It went up at Midnight on Friday 23rd

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2008 ... unced.html

 

[SG]

You're right, there was more to Hitler's intentions than ethnic cleansing..

Hitler invaded nations and without reservation allowed large numbers to die to further his twisted philosophical ideal.

I think Bush did pretty much the same thing, it was just a question of the scale that differed.

I hate drawing parallels to Nazism (Godwin's Law etc) but sometimes its hard not to.

 

[Sanurian]

Thanks, SG

I'm still running around on my tank of Pertamax so haven't had to buy any Premium yet. Maybe next week.

:shock: