Money Matters

Jimbo

Active Member
Jan 11, 2005
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Manchester and Makassar
As the time for my retirement grows closer I am trying to fine tune my thoughts and ideas and would like to get a few view points from you.

In these ever changing days of finacial uncertainty I wondered what you did with your money? In days gone past devaluation of the Rp was a major issue and those that kep there money in the currency at that time will have taken a huge financial loss. In addition cost of living will also have eroded and savings where the interest rate did not keep up with inflation.

Now in the west banks are falling like 9 pins and none are 100% safe any more.

I wondered what advice you would give

Where you keep your money now...especially those who are retired or on a fixed income.

Those who earn money in Rp...do you send it to a safer haven

Do you keep in a western bank and bring into the country when needed...thats me right now

I am interested in opinions that you may have weather for Bali, Indonesia in general or just because you have financial acumen.

Thanks in advice.
 

milan

Member
Mar 20, 2008
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As to answer your question, since we're not living in Indonesia but will in a couple of years (hopefully), we originally plan to have hubby's pension deposited to a Singapore Bank's account. However, I also have an account in BCA Jakarta but still in local currency. Therefore, once I'm in Jakarta I will open another one in Euros with the required minimum amount of E 10.000 for the first deposit.

Hubby has received his first pension 8th October, 2008 and just feels great that he's made it, given the turmoil of Wall Street that one never know what will be the after-effects here in Italy.

He would like to continue working though but the Congo deal has been cancelled.
So, in the meantime he's here on waiting and would fly immediatelly to Kazakhistan if offered because he's not able to stay home at all.
Ireland assignment was offered too but it was only for 2 months so he passed that up.

When is your plan to retire and will you continue working after that or that's it?
 

Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
9,415
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Karangasem, Bali
Boy Jimbo you sure pick a great time to ask for financial advice - at the moment (9:00am Tuesday after Mad Monday FTSE down today alone "only" 3%, asian markets down 4 and 5%) the air in Wall St. and London is full of flying bankers.

Most retirees are asset rich and cash poor.
So asset by asset:
1) if you are invested in stocks - you're buggered - keep working until it improves and unless your stocks are in banking (then you are really buggered) hang on until they finally improve.

2) if your assets are in bricks and mortar - sell now while the price is still showing some of the massive gains they have "earned" over the last 10 years. If you can find a buyer...

3) if your assets are in cash - invest in bonds with set interest rates paying particular notice of the cash guaranteed limits (in the UK it's £35,000 per bank - not account, bank). At the moment you can get 6%.

4) if you are lucky enough to have a company based final salary pension you can sit back in the sun and watch it all go to hell sipping your martini - if it is based in the UK.

5) a UK based government pension is paying about £145/ week for couples and around £90 for singlets.

At the moment cash is king and is likely to stay so for some time.

Good Luck
 

BaliLife

Active Member
Mar 27, 2007
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i agree that come retirement, you want to be particularly weighted towards cash and / or quality bonds.. keep your money in singapore jimbo if you need privacy.. but no financial institutions in singapore are able to hold rupiah..

ct
 

Jimbo

Active Member
Jan 11, 2005
2,563
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Manchester and Makassar
At the moment cash is king and is likely to stay so for some time.

I am cash rich right now and I have just opened 4 extra bank accounts all paying at leaset 6% and with new legislation on the way for bank guarantee's of 50,000 GB pounds. I have one small pension, another to come and then the main government pension. So I would seem to be doing the right thing for now.

I would have really liked to hear more from those that are living there as to their feelings and thoughts?
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
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Ubud, Bali
As you might recall my previous mention of this, in my “past life” I was an actuarial underwriter for the Prudential (US) specializing in employee benefits and retirement planning. In the US, much of the financial planning that was appropriate then, and still is today, centers around taxes...specifically, reducing income taxes.

Without prying into your personal tax situation, it’s almost impossible to suggest what would most likely make the most sense for you.

A general rule of thumb, one that has passed the test of time for decades, is to spread your assets over a range of investment vehicles.

Markit declares,

“if your assets are in bricks and mortar - sell now while the price is still showing some of the massive gains they have "earned" over the last 10 years. If you can find a buyer...”

I disagree with that entirely, most especially if that property (which is assumed to not be your primary residence) is not subject to a large mortgage, or a mortgage/overhead cost which is greater than 70% of the potential rental income that property could yield. That 70% assumes a 30% income tax, so for each percent less than 30% of tax liability, add an equal percent to the 70%. Only if that property has an annual carrying cost significantly in excess of its rental income potential would I consider dumping it.

Since you are “cash heavy” going into retirement, I would consider placing at least a third, if not half of that cash into an insured annuity with a major mutual life insurance company. This is what is called a reverse annuity. Most annuities are built up by regular small deposits over the working years of an individual, and then drawn on as income after retirement. With a reverse annuity, you pay in at retirement in the form of a lump sum, and then immediately draw on the earnings of that fund. These types of accounts are insured, risk free, and can be customized to suit your income needs, length of time of payments, and generally can also include some life insurance, which is nice to have should you find your “useful time on earth” to be expired prior to when you planned. The appeal and advantage of these types of accounts over CD’s or regular bank accounts are several:

1) Higher returns (interest) than typical of banks
2) Funds are insured
3) An attached benefit of some amount of life insurance
4) Easy assignment of a beneficiary of both the fund and any life insurance

Since your wife is Indonesian, and you are foreign, and since you will be living in Indonesia, a key concern for you in addition to pursuing the highest yield on your hard earned money should equally be what happens to that money when God determines that your “useful time on earth” is over. This is estate planning, and it is just as important as retirement planning for those of us going into retirement with a spouse and children.

In my own case, I’ve already transferred ownership of all my liquid assets to my wife and our three boys. With my private pension, which will pay out survivor benefits, Eri is already the beneficiary. With my Social Security, Eri will never be eligible for survivor benefits as she hasn’t, nor will, live in the states for the five year requirement. However, each of our three boys are eligible and each would receive a monthly Social Security survivor benefit if I died before their attainment of age 18.

Whether or not you transfer ownership or use the beneficiary approach to your liquid assets is your own private affair, but you should be aware that in Indonesia, there are some very strange regulations/laws in place regarding joint ownership of current assets, joint bank accounts (almost non existent) and of particular importance, estate property laws. For all of that, you need the advice of damn good Indonesian attorney, and based on what you learn, then make your decisions regarding what baskets in which to place your eggs. Just be certain to follow the old rule of thumb...never put all your eggs in one basket.

Cheers and happy retirement!
 

Jimbo

Active Member
Jan 11, 2005
2,563
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38
Manchester and Makassar
Thanks Roy

A lot of good stuff in there which I will digest. The difference however is that Maria is Indonesian by birth but has been a British citizen for many years. Other than that you have provided a lot of food for thought. Thanks again.
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
4,835
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Ubud, Bali
Does the UK allow for dual citizenship like the US? If so, has Maria retained her Indonesian passport, or did she turn that in when she became British?

What I’m getting at is what if she re-declared herself as Indonesian? One advantage is one less Kitas to worry about every year. The other obvious advantage is property ownership versus leasing.

I forget how old your children are, but if they are under 18, once Maria “re-declared” then they would be allowed under Indonesian law to have dual citizenship.

If the UK operates in the manner as the US in this area, then the dual citizenship is still recognized even when the second country (Indonesia) does not.

You and Maria should check out this web site for the Kumpulan Perkawinan Campur. Better known as KPC, this mixed marriage group of Indonesian women is the advocacy group which was successful in lobbying the Indonesian legislature to enact the law allowing for dual citizenship of children of mixed marriages, and it continues as a powerful organization advocating the rights of Indonesian women who are married to foreigners. They have a staff of first rate lawyers and should be able to provide excellent guidance on this issue.

http://www.kpcmelaticenter.com/
 

Jimbo

Active Member
Jan 11, 2005
2,563
18
38
Manchester and Makassar
Yes she can have dual nationality but we gave up her passport or to be more precise did not renew it. I have thought as you suggested of her giving up her passport and becoming and Indonesian citizen again because it would make my visa a lot easier under the new law.

The problem is that our children apart from the youngest who is almost 17 will not follow us. We would stay in Bali with visits to Sulawesi for about 7 months, perhaps more. She is a mother and will want to see her babies (Our sons are 6.2 and 6.0) and spend time with them etc.

As time goes by and my time comes then I am sure she will revert on the other hand she will have a house in Bali, a house in Sulewesi and a house in the UK plus a pension as a British citizen. She can make her own choices then :D

Again I will look up the website and digest all the info given
 

ronb

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2007
2,241
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Ubud, Bali
Jimbo said:
I wondered what advice you would give

Where you keep your money now...especially those who are retired or on a fixed income.

Those who earn money in Rp...do you send it to a safer haven

Do you keep in a western bank and bring into the country when needed...thats me right now

Looking at your questions:

1. I won't attempt any advice
2. My assets are in Australia
3. N/A
4 Yes, transfer from Australia as required.

A bit extra - my assets are a property in Sydney, and a managed pension fund. Roy's point about tax considerations is spot on as far as this pension fund is concerned. In Australia, if tax has been paid from the salary or whatever was used to build up the fund, then the pension from it is tax free. So, you would think very hard before withdrawing those funds and investing in small business or property.
At present, the value of the pension fund is going down (maybe about 6% in the 07/08 year - and more to come) while the Sydney property is holding its value and the rent from it is not going down. So I figure we just hang on while the roller coaster continues on its ride. :shock: