Language

[radson]

for all your guys living in bali there is a great school in denpasar run by IALF.

I totally agree that 40% seems extravagent for the bahasa belanda influence. The Dutch though definately have a head start in learning Bahasa Indonesia especially with regards to banking and automobile words.

I would also disagree that there are 3 types of bahasa indonesia. You would have to mention the colloquial bahasa Indo that comes from the influences of Betwai, ABG and I beleive from languages used by banci. Anyone listening to sinetron can hear the gue, lue, banget, gimana sih dll. Bahasa Jawa is a completey seperate language like bahasa bali.

 

[Roy]

Radson, I agree with you entirely. Bahasa Indonesia is a distinct singular language. The way it is spoken varies widely based largely on educational background, much as with English, but the language itself as I know it, is not defined into three distinctive subsections, as is Bahasa Balinese.

Just how many Dutch words have worked their way into Bahasa Indonesia would be a good study for a Masters or Doctorate candidate. I agree, 40% seems too much, and 4% is way too short. What’s most interesting though, is to contemplate how that Dutch influence worked its way into Bahasa Indonesia.

Most likely, the Dutch language worked its way more into the indigenous languages of the archipelago long before Bahasa Indonesia was derived and adopted. Additionally, the Dutch language worked its way into Bahasa Malay…more on that later.

The books “speak” of some 400 indigenous peoples, each with their own language and culture in the make up of present day Indonesia. It seems all of these languages have influenced the vocabulary of present day Bahasa Indonesia. Some have even influenced the English language, such as the “boogey man” which is derived from the feared Bugis pirates of southern Sulawesi, or “running amok” derived from amuk, the odd manner of committing suicide by taking some others along for the ride.

As already pointed out, I think by both Richard, and Jean Pascal, Bahasa Indonesia is derived from the Bahasa Malay, and maybe to a level of 80%. How much of the Dutch language influenced Bahasa Malay? Likely, given the historical presence of the Dutch in SE Asia from the late 16th century right up until WWII, their influence on that language was quite significant.

One thing is utterly certain, and that is that this subject is not without great complexity, and sometimes, even accompanied by emotional responses. Exercising my brain to the levels required to really put this whole puzzle together is not for me. I’ll leave that to the younger folks!

 

[Margriet]

Well, when I hear bahasa I can hear words related to Dutch, but as we already all agreed here, 40 % is a little bit too much. Many times I couldn't even understand the topic when my partner spoke with friends, but fairly I must admit they don't always speak formal bahasa indonesia. When they do speak that I'm far better with understanding.
I learned bahasa Indonesia about 1 year now (but I didn't study so hard!) and we use it in the house, mixed with Dutch and English. We use it also in shops/markets when we are talking about the price. or in the train, to have a conversation that other people can't understand (although more people speak Bahasa Indonesia than I'm sometimes aware I'm really happy to be able to understand my partners friends better than before. The first nights when I met them were actually a bit boring, because I really didn't have a clue what they were talking about. Like someone said here; after a while you don't really have the need anymore to understand what they are talking about. I had the same...after a while I just look around me or watch tv/ read a book. But I must say that my boyfriend is really sweet and willing to translate everything for me! But now I can just join in a conversation, that's even better! I'm just a little bit afraid that I will have the same problem in Bali again, if everybody speaks Balinees there....

 

[spitfire]

Thank you to for the welcome Jean! My last time in Bali was about 1,5 years ago. My wife has been back already twice since last january....It's just not fair, but we'll all be going in august again.

I just realised how many Indonesian words we use in Dutch as well. And actually most older people will say "Malay" if they refer to the Indonesian language. Words like tjit, toko and klamboe come to my mind directly as being used commonly. There's an expression literally translated as "being the pisang", which means that you are scr##ed.

I can't find a dictionary here to look for more words because I'm sure there are a lot more (fun) words and expressions. Perhaps my fellow dutchmen can help out?

 

[radson]

I found it really interesting the similarity between Maori and Malay. I will have to research more on that. I know in Jared Diamond's, Guns Germs and Steel he talks about the immigration patterns of people who inhabited south east asia and then the people who became the polynesians. Unfortunately I am no anthropological linguist but I do find the subject interesting and will investigate more.

Never knew boogy man came from the bugis pirates. That is interesting. There is a lot of bugis here where i work. A word that came to Australia apparently was the word bung. Initially a word heard heard by aboriginals from indonesian fisherman and then adopted by australians on hearing it from the aboriginals to become a very racist insult - boong. (This may be urban myth, have yet to verify properly)

hmm dutch words rekening, klaxon, wartel, kopi, polisi, rokok, buku dll