Jail for eating pork

Yeah, I saw that too. 2 years in an Indo jail for reciting a Muslim prayer as you eat a piece of pork skin. That is fecking harsh in anyone's books. We're coming up for elections again and that seems to bring out the worst in the blasphemers and their judges so guard you curses friends.
 
The deciding factor for her getting into legal trouble was that south Sumatera MUI issued a fatwa declaring that her action was blasphemy. From then on her fate was sealed as the police and court seems reluctant going against any fatwa. All as expected considering the direction the country has taken over the last 25 years.
 
AuroraB said:
The deciding factor for her getting into legal trouble was that south Sumatera MUI issued a fatwa declaring that her action was blasphemy. From then on her fate was sealed as the police and court seems reluctant going against any fatwa. All as expected considering the direction the country has taken over the last 25 years.
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I'm always surprised when I realize or someone mentions we live in the largest Muslim country in the world. It just doesn't feel like it, even when I'm on a Muslim island. The practice here seems so low key for outsiders compared to most of the others - Iran, Pakistan, Saudi, etc. I guess what I'm saying is that the practice of the religion seems so hidden. On the surface many of the locals will laugh and joke about booze, sex, pigs, in fact most of the things that hardliners make fatwas for. Then suddenly someone gets sent to prison, whipped in Aceh or worse for something the rest of us consider pretty harmless. I'm then always reminded of the saying from Martin Niemöller

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.


Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.


Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.


Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
 
I
Markit said:
I'm always surprised when I realize or someone mentions we live in the largest Muslim country in the world. It just doesn't feel like it, even when I'm on a Muslim island. The practice here seems so low key for outsiders compared to most of the others - Iran, Pakistan, Saudi, etc. I guess what I'm saying is that the practice of the religion seems so hidden. On the surface many of the locals will laugh and joke about booze, sex, pigs, in fact most of the things that hardliners make fatwas for. Then suddenly someone gets sent to prison, whipped in Aceh or worse for something the rest of us consider pretty harmless. I'm then always reminded of the saying from Martin Niemöller

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.


Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.


Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.


Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
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That saying is one of my favorites..... more people should learn it.

For the rest my opinion is a bit different from yours.
When I am in the Missus village, 40 km South of Banyuwangi, 85% muslim, 15% Hindu, and "hamlet" would be more appropriate than village...
you 100% feel in a muslim environment, 3 mosques in a 1500m perimeter, each competing with each oother. Long prayers / announcements on Fridays, 13 y old trainee Imams doing the prayers...
The 2 communities live along very well. Muslims got invited for the Galungan, and Hindus invited for El Eidh.
But dogs get poisonned.
And the feeling I have (having lived in Saudi, Egypt, Dubai, Malaysia) is that it would take just ONE extremist preacher, and rught political / social / economic environment, to destroy this fragile balance and switch to "full hatred" mode.

Remember Palestine and India !
In both cases the Brits left in a hurry before things turned too ugly.....

Bon, at 70 I think I (hopefully) will not be there anymore.
 
Balifrog said:
I

That saying is one of my favorites..... more people should learn it.

For the rest my opinion is a bit different from yours.
When I am in the Missus village, 40 km South of Banyuwangi, 85% muslim, 15% Hindu, and "hamlet" would be more appropriate than village...
you 100% feel in a muslim environment, 3 mosques in a 1500m perimeter, each competing with each oother. Long prayers / announcements on Fridays, 13 y old trainee Imams doing the prayers...
The 2 communities live along very well. Muslims got invited for the Galungan, and Hindus invited for El Eidh.
But dogs get poisonned.
And the feeling I have (having lived in Saudi, Egypt, Dubai, Malaysia) is that it would take just ONE extremist preacher, and rught political / social / economic environment, to destroy this fragile balance and switch to "full hatred" mode.

Remember Palestine and India !
In both cases the Brits left in a hurry before things turned too ugly.....

Bon, at 70 I think I (hopefully) will not be there anymore.
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You are probably right. I guess you have to live there rather than traveling through to feel the pressure. I would also say that going through the area south of Banyuwangi was a real eye-opener for me too - we counted 17 new mosques being built in the first hour after leaving the ferry headed down to the Red beach and not a single hospital or school. Same experience going from the ferry on Lombok, also 17 being built. I was told all with Saudi money. Not a good development IMHO.
 
Markit said:
You are probably right. I guess you have to live there rather than traveling through to feel the pressure. I would also say that going through the area south of Banyuwangi was a real eye-opener for me too - we counted 17 new mosques being built in the first hour after leaving the ferry headed down to the Red beach and not a single hospital or school. Same experience going from the ferry on Lombok, also 17 being built. I was told all with Saudi money. Not a good development IMHO.
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Before the Covid drama I used to spend 10 days every 2 or 3 months over there.
Noted the same, mosques being build / renovated everywhere. The "contribution bowl" being very activily tended to you at intersections, traffic lights, and village crossings.
And yep, Saudi Arabia probably finances a good part of it.
Same as Qatar does in France.....or Turkey in Germany...
BTW, same "trend" is happening since 10 / 15 years in Malaysia.
 
It honestly makes me quite sad to see the little girls (4 or 5) in full hijab. It must be so hot!

The hijab or jilbab was never an Indonesian custom and has been fully taken over from the Wahhbi teachings of the Saudis.
 
Markit said:
It honestly makes me quite sad to see the little girls (4 or 5) in full hijab. It must be so hot!

The hijab or jilbab was never an Indonesian custom and has been fully taken over from the Wahhbi teachings of the Saudis.
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Thing is very few people bother to read anything about religion or history, easier to listen to the "social media" or the preacher. Fear has probably something to do with it as well....

When you think that in France, an originally deeply Christian country they recently had to issue a law prohibiting the wear of the abaya at school....
Hijab already outlawed as well at school.
 
Wow! All this religion getting shoved down everyones throat. Yuk! It seems to be so oppressive. Why do the women have to cover their hair and not the men? Look what happened here when the Muslims came. Where did all the Buddhist go? Remember Borobodor! It's Buddhist. What about the Aga beliefs? Before Hinduism and Islamism? It seems all the major religions in the world just can't help but to push their beliefs down everyones throats. It's like do you believe in God? If it's not my God you die! That is so spiritual isn't it!
The reason Pork is not allowed is because everyone used to shit all over the place and the pigs would eat it. Tell me who is the smart one there? What's wrong with Dogs? They have been domesticated for thousands of years and been a good friend. Look at India with all these accidental kitchen fires where the wife gets killed. Seems like a strange coincidence to me, where it's almost impossible to divorce. I say abolish all religions and give the women equal rights to make major decisions! It's obvious the male dominated societies doesn't work. ( War, Greed, Power struggles, Famine, Lack of education! Pollution, Nuclear Energy, Etc.) Will humans ever learn?
 
Shadrach said:
I say abolish all religions and give the women equal rights to make major decisions!
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Rant over ? Calm down....

Abolish religions : you can always dream...

Equal rights to women ? Well, we tried that one in the West.....Women at top position are usually more terrible than men, because too emotional.

God (or nature) if you prefer has organized the world pretty well. The male goes hunting and goes to war. The female stays home, take care of the kids and cooks.

I respect nature.
Ok, TBH, I prefer to go to the pub than going at war..
 
That's because when the women took over Government positions, they still had to act like the men. Look at the majority! If there were more of them in power, I think they might be more level headed. Maybe? I liked the going hunting, fishing, and the Pub part, but forget the war part. I like to cook too! Kids should definitely be taken care of by the whole village. Too much energy for just a Mom and Dad.
 
Shadrach said:
Kids should definitely be taken care of by the whole village. Too much energy for just a Mom and Dad.
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Fully disagree...
I and my (ex) Thai wife educated our 3 kids, 100% French orientated, no way the parents in law, Budha and whatever priest intervene in that.

They are aware of Thai culture, learned it, but just as a part of "general personal culture", same way I have learned (myself) about other countries customs, beliefs and religion.
None of them has set foot in a temple since they past 8 or 10 years (they're now 28/24/23).

If parents consider kids are too much of a job or burden, they should not make any. As simple as that.
 
I wasn't even thinking about culture, beliefs, religions. That stuff is the last thing I would want to teach children. I was thinking of basic skills in life. Cooking, hunting, building, gardening, horseback riding, milking a cow, or goat, making cheese and butter, sewing, on and on. I am so happy to have not had that stuff pushed on me as a child. I was raised to be smart, kind, hard working, open minded, not prejudice against any race, color, creed, sexual orientation, etc. It was because my parents had too much of that crap shoved down their throats in their youth so abandoned all of it. They both were raised poor from different countries so they decided to not push that shit on their kids. Pride is a dangerous thing, it closes the mind to others way of thinking, and creates an ego. If your nose is so high in the air, you just might drown when it rains!
 
"I wasn't even thinking about culture, beliefs, religions. That stuff is the last thing I would want to teach children"

Woaw, I am flabbergasted.... not wanted your kids to be cultivated.......

"Cooking, hunting, building, gardening, horseback riding, milking a cow, or goat, making cheese and butter, sewing, on and on"

Mmmmmm, you plan to keep them in the Aussie outback ?

FFS, milking a cow...... sure is more usefull in life than mathematics and computer skills.....

This must be written by ChatGPT ? At least I hope so.....
 
Balifrog said:
"I wasn't even thinking about culture, beliefs, religions. That stuff is the last thing I would want to teach children"

Woaw, I am flabbergasted.... not wanted your kids to be cultivated.......

"Cooking, hunting, building, gardening, horseback riding, milking a cow, or goat, making cheese and butter, sewing, on and on"

Mmmmmm, you plan to keep them in the Aussie outback ?

FFS, milking a cow...... sure is more usefull in life than mathematics and computer skills.....

This must be written by ChatGPT ? At least I hope so.....
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No I don't plan on keeping them in the Aussie outback, well maybe a while would be great! My kids are proficient in Mathematics, and computers, actually their both pilots and own their own airplanes! I was referring to basic common sense skills that help someone wherever they go. I don't cultivate children, I cultivate my gardens and grow my own food, and Culture is what I use to brew alcohol, make sauerkraut, kimchi, hot sauce, yogurt, saki, kombucha, etc. Humans are not something to be Cultivated, or Cultured. They supposed to be nourished to become what their destined to become. not what their parents or society wants!
 
Is it hypocrisy for a hooker on the streets of Surabaya to wear a jilbab? Guess it isn't worse than a preacher to be a patron?
 
Balifrog said:
Getting close to off-limit here IMO....

Don't forget Big Brother !
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You really had me scratching my head over this one, as I thoroughly meant the word "preacher " as applied in christian preacher. Believe me there are such folks in Surabaya. In fact a good number follow the world renowned Benny Hinn there.
 
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